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Game "breaking" fixes?

AADA7AAADA7A Member Posts: 32
in Archive (General Discussion)
Ok, so I had a couple of examples of worries but now I can just remember two things. I am thinking here about problems/bugs/exploits that I am concerned will be "fixed" without me knowing so, thus making me create a character that I will be disappointed in, because I choose the wrong spells, put points into wrong proficiencies and such, because a specific build doesn't work the way it did before. And so I'm hoping that a list with complete changes will be released where I can search for keywords later on in order to not feel cheated. So my two examples right now: will charisma be potent for sorcerers, as it says in the description in baldurs gate (but was never true)? Also, this may seem silly and trivial, but the spell description of haste says that it ages the caster a year. There are a lot of confusion generally for me and the spells in baldurs gate as they are buggy and non-descriptive, but this is another thing that would ruin the game if I suddenly die from old age...

Comments

  • MikeMastersMikeMasters Member Posts: 141
    make your character an Elf, that way with the longer lifespan you can caste haste maybe 900 times
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    No and No. Your sorcerer does not require a high Charisma to cast spells--in fact, the manual states that the sorcerer's key ability is Intelligence, not Charisma. (Any inaccurate language saying that your spells were based on Charisma has been removed from the manual, to avoid confusion.)

    As for haste, the "aging" effect presents itself in the form of fatigue. There are no long term effects from casting Haste over and over again.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited November 2012
    AADA7A said:

    Ok, so I had a couple of examples of worries but now I can just remember two things. I am thinking here about problems/bugs/exploits that I am concerned will be "fixed" without me knowing so, thus making me create a character that I will be disappointed in, because I choose the wrong spells, put points into wrong proficiencies and such, because a specific build doesn't work the way it did before.

    I have the same concerns, I'm planning an elf/fighter mage build, currently elves get +1THAC0 for *all* swords, including two-handed swords (which I was thinking of focusing on) and scimitars and katanas. Strictly speaking, elves should only get the bonus for long swords and short swords, would might change my build priorities somewhat...
  • Aasimar069Aasimar069 Member Posts: 803
    Yes also, it would be nice to have the complete list of the new weapon proficiencies attributed to the NPC (so that what can know what to give them and how to create our own character).

    In the same way, we should also know by advance what will be the proficiency of the weapons that were treated as long swords (ex: it is obvious that an item which is described as scimitar will be a scimitar in BGEE, but, for some items, it isn't that obvious).
  • AADA7AAADA7A Member Posts: 32
    edited November 2012
    Aosaw: Ok cool! But how is intelligence key for the sorcerer anyway? In BG2 it didn't do anything -- you had to have 9 in it so that you wouldn't fail at casting spells, but there were no other restrictions or bonuses as with the mage who got extra spells and unlocked higher levels of spells.

    I just realized another thing with haste -- it says that it doubles one attacks, but when cast on my party members, it didn't give anyone anything extra (except for speed). I've read the following: "Haste only gives you half a bonus attack if you already have an extra half attack per round." http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm

    But even if so, it just doesn't add up with my own experimenting just now in the original, where it doesn't do anything. This is what it says in the manual: "When this spell is cast, each affected creature functions at double its normal movement and attack rates. A hasted creature gains a -2 initiative bonus. Thus, a creature moving at 6 and attacking once per round would move at 12 and attack twice per round."

    If it did what it says it does, it would be really really good. I don't think it did that in BG2 either, although maybe the description was changed?
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Your read on sorcerers is correct - they effectively have no stat requirements and INT, WIS And CHA don't affect their spellcasting. The only real impact of those stats on any spell caster are (1) INT affects the ability for wizards to scribe a scroll and (2) WIS gives bonus spells to clerics. Haste should give you an increased attack if you aren't using some mod that changes it.

    If you are worried about making the wrong spell choices and spoiling your character, sorcerer may not be the class for you. That is the only class where that is a big worry. Other than that, the primary thing to manage is weapon proficiencies.
  • ryuken87ryuken87 Member Posts: 563
    Intelligence does nothing for the sorcerer.

    Make sure you aren't reading the description for Improved Haste, which does double the attacks of a single target. Even if you are reading the right description, the manual is often wrong.

    Regular Haste does indeed only give 1/2 an attack extra if you already have a half e.g. 3/2 or 5/2.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,439
    AADA7A said:


    I just realized another thing with haste -- it says that it doubles one attacks, but when cast on my party members, it didn't give anyone anything extra (except for speed). I've read the following: "Haste only gives you half a bonus attack if you already have an extra half attack per round." http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm

    But even if so, it just doesn't add up with my own experimenting just now in the original, where it doesn't do anything. This is what it says in the manual: "When this spell is cast, each affected creature functions at double its normal movement and attack rates. A hasted creature gains a -2 initiative bonus. Thus, a creature moving at 6 and attacking once per round would move at 12 and attack twice per round."

    If it did what it says it does, it would be really really good. I don't think it did that in BG2 either, although maybe the description was changed?

    Haste is flaky at best. What it actually does is halve the length of your rounds, but the offhand attacks often get dropped entirely. Nythrun has probably done the most testing with it and had a good writeup.

  • AADA7AAADA7A Member Posts: 32
    Heh, yeah, I'm thinking of "going blind" and not give a shit about my character build at all, sort of simulating the first time I played the first time when I was twelve years old. Good, and also really hard times! :) But my read of haste is correct, and it's from the spellbook in the game, and it certainly doesn't change any attacks at all when cast, no matter what configuration of weapons and attacks I create! I remember using them on my animated dead summons in BG2 though, with great (or imagined) success. :D
  • RomulanPaladinRomulanPaladin Member Posts: 188
    The reason why haste mentions aging is because that is a side effect for the spell in the 2nd ED PnP game which BG is based off of. Apparently, the text was carried over into BG and was never edited or removed.

    Ah, that brings me back. The party mage says "I cast haste" and everyone else yells "NOOOO!"
  • LozLoz Member Posts: 19
    In my opinion the fixpack 'fix' which has the worst effect on game balance is Azureedge. This easily obtained throwing axe is far FAR too good against undead with the fix implemented. Even liches with scsii installed become trivial. I know the description has the undead destroying effect, but one has to remember the game was not playtested with a working Azureedge. If it had, I doubt it would have made it through.
  • AADA7AAADA7A Member Posts: 32
    Speaking of game-breaking stuff, I just remembered that I was quite impressed by Elminster back in the day, because zie had the ability to freeze the game, literally! Like I would attack hir, and zie would say something in the vein of "ooh I'll show you my TRUE powers!" and like that, the game would freeze up. I think zie was the only character I didn't manage to kill in the game. It would be cool if that bug (?) wasn't there anymore, and one could try to take hir on. ;)
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited November 2012
    ryuken87 said:

    Intelligence does nothing for the sorcerer.

    Make sure you aren't reading the description for Improved Haste, which does double the attacks of a single target. Even if you are reading the right description, the manual is often wrong.

    Regular Haste does indeed only give 1/2 an attack extra if you already have a half e.g. 3/2 or 5/2.

    Can sorcerers use scrolls? If so then having less than 9 intelligence would impact them.
  • AADA7AAADA7A Member Posts: 32
    I never use scrolls myself, but can't imagine them not being able to. Less than nine intelligence would affect their spellcasting too I believe, they would have a chance of failing every spell cast! Which, when I think about it, is actually quite fun and something I might try someday! :)
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    elminster said:

    ryuken87 said:

    Intelligence does nothing for the sorcerer.

    Make sure you aren't reading the description for Improved Haste, which does double the attacks of a single target. Even if you are reading the right description, the manual is often wrong.

    Regular Haste does indeed only give 1/2 an attack extra if you already have a half e.g. 3/2 or 5/2.

    Can sorcerers use scrolls? If so then having less than 9 intelligence would impact them.
    Yes they can and so you don't want to give that much of your wits!
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    Don't Sorcerers have a minimum of 9 INT anyway?
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644
    Was thinking about aging affects and using Fatigue. It'd be cool if they introduced ghosts in the game. As part of their attack they could Fatigue you (since they age you normally). Fatigue gives you some pretty crappy negatives to hit, so would make sense somewhat.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Tanthalas said:

    Don't Sorcerers have a minimum of 9 INT anyway?

    Yes but you can drop it lower than a 9 by giving of your wits in Spellhold or by playing around with the Machine of Lud the Mad.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    HaHaCharade said:

    Was thinking about aging affects and using Fatigue. It'd be cool if they introduced ghosts in the game. As part of their attack they could Fatigue you (since they age you normally). Fatigue gives you some pretty crappy negatives to hit, so would make sense somewhat.

    BTW this reminded me, low Con makes you fatigued more quickly and high con less quickly. See: http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/stats.htm
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