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Sure, why don't we break the basis of AD&D (armour and weapons mod in planning stage)

ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
edited June 2017 in BG:EE Mods
I am learning to mod at the moment, and start ambitiously. This thread is first to document ideas, then implementation.

I really don't like 2nd edition d&d, but love Baldur's gate. Armour should, in my opinion, mitigate damage, not prevent it. I can't find a "-n to crushing/slashing/piercing damage" modifier, so I'll work with percentages. This will first be Baldur's gate only, not BG2 where larger emphasis is on magic.

The idea also is to not have anything overpowered, but give you choices.

Base speed +3 to mitigate speed reductions.

Shields:
I want to have bucklers give a +3 AC, med shields a +4, large shields a +6, but also a -1 and -3 movement penalty for med and large and casting time +2 +4 +8. There may be some save vs spells for larger shields, I'll look into that.

Armour

Armour would have DR and only a small AC difference.
Leather armour -1 movement, +5%DR crush +5% slash. +1casting time 10% arcane casting failure
Studded -1 movement, 1 dex penalty, 10% DR slash, 5% crush, 5% pierce +1 casting time -1 AC 20% arcane casting failure
Hide -2 movement -2 dex penalty, 15% crush, 5% slash 5% pierce +1 casting time -1 AC 30% arcane casting failure
Chain -2 movement, 2 dex penalty, 30% slash, 20% pierce, 10% crush (considered gambesoned) +4 casting time -2 AC 40% arcane casting failure
Splint: replace with "Augmented chain" -3 movement, 2 dex penalty, 30% slash, 20% pierce, 15% crush (considered gambesoned) +4 casting time -2 AC 40% arcane casting failure
Plate -3 movement, 3 dex penalty, 39% slash, 30% pierce, 15% crush, +6 casting time -3 AC 50% arcane casting failure
Full plate: Not balancable, I'll replace it with regular plate (so it's like the 14th century)

Open helm -1 AC +5% resistances -10% find traps -10% open locks -10% detect illusion -2 initiative +10% arcane spell failure
Closed helm -3 AC +10% resistances -30% find traps -30% open locks -30% detect illusion -6 initiative +40% arcane spell failure

Spells need to reflect armour to keep the balance, enhancements straight improve AC

Weapons:

Crushing
Crushing except Quarterstaff -1 or 1 die down, slings do crushing
Staves -2 AC -1 movement

Slashing
Arming swords -1AC 1d10 damage
Two handed swords -2 AC -1 movement 2d6 damage
Axe 1 die down and +1d3 crushing
Halberd -1 AC -1 movement +1d3 piercing

Piercing
Generally the same
Spears -2 AC -1 movement damage up to 1d8
The rest no bonus

Proficiencies
Weapon styles and proficiencies are where you learn to defend yourself:

Shield 1 -2AC +1 save vs spells
Shield 2 -2AC +1 attack +2 save vs spells

1h1 -1 AC +1 attack
1h2 -2 AC +2 attack

2h1 -2AC +1 attack
2h2 -3AC +2 attack

2wf1 -1 AC, +1 main hand
2wf2 -1 AC, +2 main hand
2wf3 -2 AC, +2 main hand +1 off hand.

Weapon profs

2 -1 AC +1attack +1/2 apr
3 -2 AC +2 attack +2 damage +1/2 apr total
4 -3 AC +3 attack +3 damage +1/2 apr total
5 -4 AC +3 attack +3 damage +1 apr total

Classes:
Rangers lose the bonus two pips in 2wf, but get a "detect traps" 1/day
Warrior: -1 AC every 4 levels (-2 in BG1)
Priest: -1 AC every 6 levels (-1)
Rogue: -1 AC every 6 levels (-1)
Mage: -1 AC every 8 levels (-0)

To do
Can I find the -n piercing/crushing/slashing incoming modifiers somewhere? This would give the armoured dude the option to ignore damage in addition to mitigating part of it, which is a better representation of reality
What about beasties?
What about Kensai?
What about Swashbucklers?
What about Monks?
What about Blades?
What about Skalds?
What about multi/dual classing and the AC bonus?
How will it stack with bbn/dwarven defender/shield of faith DR?
What about bracers? Maybe just like ROP's?
What about mage robes? Like armour, but equal % reduction, and -1 movement speed?
What about belts? - AC seems like the good place to start?
How to keep 2wf from being too powerful? Can I urge the second hand to a lighter weapon?
What about bastard swords? Maybe make them 2h swords with shorter range and better protection and especially speed (so like a real world longsword)?
Can I change the other weapon styles to also have a third pip?
Is this too little?
Can I add things like a chain shirt (light metal armour), brigantine (alternative splint) and padded (alternative to hide)

This is very basic, don't expect the mod within a few months.

JuliusBorisov

Comments

  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    Finding leaden plumbing takes a dent out of my modding time, I need to tear half of my house open.

  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,045
    Take a look at Scales of Balance, Item Revisions, & Full Plate & Packing Steel for other alternative approaches to armour systems.

    ZilberGrammarsalad
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    Yeah, quite a few of these ideas are good. Probably better than what I am going to make, but I do have to start somewhere with modding, right?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,466
    edited June 2017
    General advice: I would start with a piece of this - say, shields - and then add more and more as you get more comfortable and knowledgeable.

    Specific advice:
    Zilber said:


    Shields:
    I want to have bucklers give a +3 AC, med shields a +4, large shields a +6, but also a -1 and -3 movement penalty for med and large and casting time +2 +4 +8. There may be some save vs spells for larger shields, I'll look into that.

    I assume you are aware that mages can't use shields, so this casting time penalty is cleric/paladin/ranger-only? I'll mention it, just case. ;)
    Zilber said:

    Proficiencies
    Weapon styles and proficiencies are where you learn to defend yourself:

    Weapon profs

    2 -1 AC +1attack +1/2 apr
    3 -2 AC +2 attack +2 damage +1/2 apr total
    4 -3 AC +3 attack +3 damage +1/2 apr total
    5 -4 AC +3 attack +3 damage +1 apr total

    I like this idea of adding AC bonuses for higher proficiency (and I might borrow it). But, I fear it might be viciously complex to implement...
    Zilber said:

    Classes:
    Rangers lose the bonus two pips in 2wf,

    It's hard-coded.
    Zilber said:

    To do
    Can I find the -n piercing/crushing/slashing incoming modifiers somewhere? This would give the armoured dude the option to ignore damage in addition to mitigating part of it, which is a better representation of reality

    It would indeed, but it's not possible in this engine.
    Zilber said:

    What about ...dual classing and the AC bonus?

    You will never, ever successfully balance dual-classing, unless you simply forbid it to anyone. It is a broken mechanic. :P

    Here, I would make about 8 different -1 AC bonus spells, and apply each one separately at certain levels in kits' clab tables. In addition to the permanent AC bonus, add a 206 effect to each spell, permanently protecting against itself. Then each one won't be reapplied after dual-classing; your AC bonuses will behave like thac0.
    Zilber said:

    What about bastard swords? Maybe make them 2h swords and ...

    I worry that converting 1-hand weapons to become 2-handed could cause crashes if creatures in the game don't have a 2-handed attack animation, or are carrying shields.
    Zilber said:

    Can I change the other weapon styles to also have a third pip?

    Yes, you can go up to 7 in profs and styles, though only 5 will be displayed in the record sheet.

    Zilber
  • ZilberZilber Member Posts: 253
    edited June 2017
    Thanks for responding! I really like your work, and what you already did inspired me to do it all over again.

    General advice: I would start with a piece of this - say, shields - and then add more and more as you get more comfortable and knowledgeable.

    Specific advice:

    Zilber said:


    Shields:
    I want to have bucklers give a +3 AC, med shields a +4, large shields a +6, but also a -1 and -3 movement penalty for med and large and casting time +2 +4 +8. There may be some save vs spells for larger shields, I'll look into that.

    I assume you are aware that mages can't use shields, so this casting time penalty is cleric/paladin/ranger-only? I'll mention it, just case. ;)
    Yes, mages cannot use shields, but multiclass of course can (more on that later), and Bards as well (bucklers). I am debating of giving that a high arcana penalty but allow it for mages.


    Zilber said:

    Proficiencies
    Weapon styles and proficiencies are where you learn to defend yourself:

    Weapon profs

    2 -1 AC +1attack +1/2 apr
    3 -2 AC +2 attack +2 damage +1/2 apr total
    4 -3 AC +3 attack +3 damage +1/2 apr total
    5 -4 AC +3 attack +3 damage +1 apr total

    I like this idea of adding AC bonuses for higher proficiency (and I might borrow it). But, I fear it might be viciously complex to implement...
    I am balancing with EEkeeper at the moment, so not too sure about how to implement it. I hope the values can be adjusted.


    Zilber said:

    Classes:
    Rangers lose the bonus two pips in 2wf,

    It's hard-coded.
    Aww, too bad.


    Zilber said:

    To do
    Can I find the -n piercing/crushing/slashing incoming modifiers somewhere? This would give the armoured dude the option to ignore damage in addition to mitigating part of it, which is a better representation of reality

    It would indeed, but it's not possible in this engine.
    That does explain why I could not find it.


    Zilber said:

    What about ...dual classing and the AC bonus?

    You will never, ever successfully balance dual-classing, unless you simply forbid it to anyone. It is a broken mechanic. :P

    Here, I would make about 8 different -1 AC bonus spells, and apply each one separately at certain levels in kits' clab tables. In addition to the permanent AC bonus, add a 206 effect to each spell, permanently protecting against itself. Then each one won't be reapplied after dual-classing; your AC bonuses will behave like thac0.
    I could make the normally choosable classes a lot better than the base classes you have access to when dual classing, but I think it may be best to decide that dual classing is a silly mechanic. Multiclassing needs to be looked at suspiciously as well.
    V1 of the mod will just have the iconic "fighter, cleric, thief, mage", I will balance from there.


    Zilber said:

    What about bastard swords? Maybe make them 2h swords and ...


    I worry that converting 1-hand weapons to become 2-handed could cause crashes if creatures in the game don't have a 2-handed attack animation, or are carrying shields.

    I was thinking of the mod that allowed someone to change a bastard sword into a two or one handed version, but it would have too much reach.


    Zilber said:

    Can I change the other weapon styles to also have a third pip?

    Yes, you can go up to 7 in profs and styles, though only 5 will be displayed in the record sheet.
    Nice! I will use that, probably all 7. I will allow for style specialisation for non-fighters as well, just not all the way to 7.

    Post edited by Zilber on
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