Clarification about how magic arrows/bolts/bullets work?

Oxford_Guy

Hi - I really should know this by now, but I've always been a little confused how magic arrows/bolts/bullets work and how they combine with magic bows. I'm also aware that original BG1 is a little different than BG2 in this respect, but let's assume BG2 mechanics for now, as I'm assuming this is what BGEE will use.

Firstly - AFAIK if you have, say, a +3 longbow, all the +3 does is add +3 THAC0, not damage, nor does it count as a +3 weapon for purposes of determining, for example, whether it can hit an enemy resistant to +2 weapons. Is that correct?

Okay, then assuming I have some +2 arrows that I wish to use with this bow, do they then add a *further* +2 to hit, giving +5 THAC0 overall from the bow+arrow combination, i.e. does the THAC0 stack?

Also does the +2 arrow add +2 to damage? Also AFAIK, the arrow *would* be able to damage enemies that are resistant to +1 weapons. Is this all correct?

How does things work with items that have automatic or magically created ammo? e.g.

Firetooth +4 (+2 fire dam., automatically fires +2 Fire Arrows)

Does this get +6 THACO overall? Can it be used with other bolts instead of the automatic fire bolts, if desired? Do you still get the +2 fire damage?


Short Bow of Gesen (+1-8 electrical damage, +4 THACO, no ammunition required, 20% elec. res.)

What does the ammo this fires count as, in terms of what it canh it, +4? Can it damage enemies resistant to +3 weapons? is it effectively firing +4 arrows (with +1-8 additional electrical damage) for all intents and purposes, including damage? Can it be used with other arrows instead of the automatic arrows, if desired? Do you still get the electrical damage?

Erinne Sling +4 (+4 THACO, creates 5 Bullets +4 once/day)

Does this get +8 THACO overall if used with the ammo it can create?


Any ideas? Thanks!

DJKajuru

The magical launcher will provide you thac0 and sometimes damage bonus, it won't affect the enemy's vulnerabilities.

The magical missile provides thac0 and sometimes bonus, cummulative with the launcher's (Erinne sling+magical sling will offer the +8 bonus you asked!) , and its bonus will affect the enemy's vulnerabilities.

Automatic created ammo has the launcher's magic properties (a +3 magical bow that creates arrows will create arrows +3) , but there will be no extra bonus to thac0.

In other words, you can cause one hell of a damage!

Oxford_Guy

@DJKajuru thanks, though I'm still a bit confused:

DJKajuru said:

The magical launcher will provide you thac0 and sometimes damage bonus, it won't affect the enemy's vulnerabilities.

Okay, got that, I think, but just to clarify - a "normal" +1 bow does *not* give +1 damage?

DJKajuru said:

The magical missile provides thac0 and sometimes bonus,

So does a "normal" +1 arrow give you +1 damage, as well as +1 THAC0?

DJKajuru said:

cummulative with the launcher's (Erinne sling+magical sling will offer the +8 bonus you asked!) , and its bonus will affect the enemy's vulnerabilities.

Okay, but how much damage bonus would this give - none, +4, or +8?

DJKajuru said:

Automatic created ammo has the launcher's magic properties (a +3 magical bow that creates arrows will create arrows +3) , but there will be no extra bonus to thac0.

I'm still confused, let's look at the Short Bow of Gesen (+1-8 electrical damage, +4 THACO, no ammunition required, 20% elec. res.)


If I've understood what you're saying, this would be a +4 bow (I think), so creates +4 arrows(?), but you "only" get +4 THAC0 when using it (without separate ammo). Enemies that can only be hit by +3 or highter weapons could still get hurt by this. But, what (if any) damage bonus is there from this bow (excluding the electrical damage) when using the automatic ammo - none, +4, or +8?

Also, what about Firetooth? See my original questions... Thanks!

DJKajuru

Oh yeah, I forgot about these !

Well, I have seen Imoen hit Adamantite Golems with the Gesen bow, so that's at least +3 (nevermind the electrical damage, the golem was immune to it =/ ). The electrical damage is somehow magical, since it won't affect a protection from magic weapons. If you load the bow with normal arrows it will cause normal damage, though.


Firetooth... I can't say for sure, haven't used that in a while, but I suppose it should provide a +6 to thac0. Don't remember if the fire damage is always there...

Shin

Oxford_Guy said:

Okay, got that, I think, but just to clarify - a "normal" +1 bow does *not* give +1 damage?

Indeed not.

Oxford_Guy said:

So does a "normal" +1 arrow give you +1 damage, as well as +1 THAC0?

In vanilla, no, but there is a mod that incorporates this, giving each arrow type its enchantment level as bonus damage.

Oxford_Guy

Shin said:

Oxford_Guy said:

Okay, got that, I think, but just to clarify - a "normal" +1 bow does *not* give +1 damage?

Indeed not.

Oxford_Guy said:

So does a "normal" +1 arrow give you +1 damage, as well as +1 THAC0?

In vanilla, no, but there is a mod that incorporates this, giving each arrow type its enchantment level as bonus damage.

Okay, but in vanilla, then, neither a +1 bow not +1 arrow gives any extra damage, but the THAC0 bonuses stack?

Oxford_Guy

DJKajuru said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about these !

Well, I have seen Imoen hit Adamantite Golems with the Gesen bow, so that's at least +3 (nevermind the electrical damage, the golem was immune to it =/ ). The electrical damage is somehow magical, since it won't affect a protection from magic weapons. If you load the bow with normal arrows it will cause normal damage, though.


Firetooth... I can't say for sure, haven't used that in a while, but I suppose it should provide a +6 to thac0. Don't remember if the fire damage is always there...

Okay, maybe I should try to give myself these bows in Shadowkeeper and do some experiments...

DJKajuru

Oxford_Guy said:

Okay, maybe I should try to give myself these bows in Shadowkeeper and do some experiments...

I wonder who you'll test it on!

Oxford_Guy

Hmmm.... I've had a go at trying things out in Shadowkeeper, but can't figure out what's actually happening. One thing that's interesting that I did note, Gesen seems to improve by +1THAC0 if equiped with normal arrows, but I think this might be a side effect of being an elf - I tried it with an elf fighter/magic user that doesn't have proficiencies in short bows, so I'm thinking that maybe the elf +1 THAC0 is being applied to the arrows rather than the bow!

Can anyone confirm how the mechanics of Gesen anf Firetooth actually work?

Oxford_Guy

Anyone?

bbear

Gesen is a weapon that shoots +4 arrows. If you load arrows onto the Gesen, it shoots those arrows and you get a bonus to the thaco according to those arrows.

Gesen by itself: thaco+4 (cant hurt enemies that require +5 weapons or greater)
Gesen w/ arrow+2: thaco +6 (cant hurt enemies that require +3 weapons or greater)

Oxford_Guy

bbear said:

Gesen is a weapon that shoots +4 arrows. If you load arrows onto the Gesen, it shoots those arrows and you get a bonus to the thaco according to those arrows.

Gesen by itself: thaco+4 (cant hurt enemies that require +5 weapons or greater)
Gesen w/ arrow+2: thaco +6 (cant hurt enemies that require +3 weapons or greater)

Ah, okay I see, yes I *think* that makes sense! So that makes it loads more useful in the later stages of BG2 than Firetooth potentially, as that, whilst getting thac0 +6 without ammo, only hits as a +2 (I think(

Oxford_Guy

BTW it seems that BGEE uses BG1 not BG2 mechanics for how magic bows and crossbows and magic arrows and bolts work i.e. they all add their +x damage. In BG2 neither magic bows nor arrows or bolts add their +x damage (but crossbows, slings and bullets do). I wonder how things will work in BG2EE?