Fighter/thief suggestions

simone

Hi everybody
In BGEE I'm going to play an elven fighter/thief but there are some things that sounds not clear to me.
1)How many proficiency points do i get at startup?
2)How do i get new proficiency points during the game?As a fighter and stop? or one point when my fighter reachs level 3 and another one when my thief reachs level 4?
3)I never played as a thief so....do i need to attack enemies from behind when hidden or i can just enter shadows and then attack?
4)Should I choose 2 weapons style(my favourite for roleplaying) or single weapon style?
5)I'm heading to play this character from the beginning of bgee1 to the end of ToBEE so....should i choose long swords or katanas(as roleplaying i prefer long swords but katanas are cool and rolls a D10 but i don't remember good ones).
6)I want to follow the story so i will keep Imoen in my party and dual her into mage at level 5/6 but i don't want to play (another time) with Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid and Jaheira. Any suggestions for a funny and powerfull good party?
I know i made a lot of questions but i'm old and i played bg and bg2 long time ago then i started play games based on the 3.5 edition and i forgot a lot of things.
Never played ToB so I want to solve this lack with the EE saga.
Thanks!!

ryuken87

1) 4
2) Every three fighter levels.
3) From behind.
4) Dual wielding.
5) You will get enough proficiency points in BG2 for both, but since there are no katanas in BG1 (unless they add some) start with long swords.

Cheesebelly

1 - You get 4 proficiency points, just like a fighter.

2 - You'll get new proficiency points with the fighter levels only, with their own progression table (every 3 levels as a fighter, so you'll need slightly more XP since you'll be a multiclass)

3 - If you want to stab, you need to stay on the enemy's back, yes. You should get a sneak-attack bonus to hit from whatever angle you attack though, not very sure.

4 - Good question. I would personally go with dual wielding (just because it's super cool), although the single weapon style's big advantage comes from an increased chance of critical hits. In the long run, I think 2 weapons style is much better though.

5 - Katanas are great, there's no hiding that. But there's a certain lack of good enchanted Katana (granted, Celestial Fury in BG2 is godlike). In general, I'd go with Long Swords for BG1. You'll get enough proficiency points for a second weapon kind later on anyway.

6 - Well, you'll be nicely set on the thieves front. I'd take another damager, a mage and a healer at least (meaning one slot still available). Kivan and Kagain are excellent choices for a secondary warrior (you'll probably focus the most on your PC, that's why secondary). Ajantis is ok as well. It's really up to you and who you'd like to play with. Also keep in mind there are three new NPCs. If I were you, I'd go with something similar though :

PC
Imoen
Kivan/Kagain/Dorn
Viconia/Branwen
Xan/Edwin/Neera
Garrick/Yeslick/Rasaad

If you go with any of the given combinations you should be pretty damn balanced ultimately, maybe a bit short of a caster until Imoen becomes one. But the best thing is that the choice is yours.

Hopefully you'll enjoy BGEE

simone

Thanks!!!
Now...Let's focus on dual wielding.
2points on 2 weapons and 2 points on long sword at startup or 3 points on 2 weapons and 1 points on long swords? I know at third level it's the same but i have to go trough 8000 exp because i am a multiclaas and i need a suggestion.
I Cry only 4 points at startup..no ranged weapons that can help me and to put a single point in a bow i have to wait level 6(fighter).

CamDawg

Cheesebelly said:

3 - If you want to stab, you need to stay on the enemy's back, yes. You should get a sneak-attack bonus to hit from whatever angle you attack though, not very sure.

IWD2 has it, being a 3e game, and IWD has an option to use the 3e sneak attack rules instead of 2e backstabs in later patches. However I'm pretty sure this is a 3e rule that's never been implemented in BG/BG2.

ryuken87

Start with 2 in long sword and 2 in DW. The third pip in DW only reduces the off hand penalty from -4 to -2, whereas the second pip in a weapon gives +1 to hit, +2 to damage and crucially +1/2 an attack. I'd be hesitant to ever bother with the third pip in DW in BG1, I'd put them both your remaining pips in a ranged weapon.

Oxford_Guy

BTW from the fix list it looks like BGEE will restrict you to no more than 2 pips in a single proficiency or style at character creation (like BG1).

Two-weapon fighting is not really that useful until BG2 IMHO, as there aren't any great bonuses to using an offhand wepon in BG1 and you're probably better off with a shield or SWF. As a thief, SWF is good for backstabs, as it doubles the chance of a critical, also backstabbing with an off-hand weapon equiped can be problematic, as if its a faster weapon, it'll be the one doing the backstabbing (with the offhand penalty)...

Also, for BG1, at least, bows are great, especially for an elf (+1 THAC0 with non-crossbows). In BG1 longbows and composite bows (if you have 18 Str) are stronger than shortbows, but in BG2 some of best magic bows are shortbow...

Brude

Dual wielding is nearly useless in BG1, because you won't get bonuses or find weapons that allow you overcome the thac0 penalty to your offhand.

Single weapon specialization gives you an AC bonus, which is more useful in BG1, and increases your chance to crit by 5%. It's also cheaper, because it only requires a single pip to get both of those bonuses.

moody_mage

Extra critical hit chances are great for a backstabbing Fighter/Thief in BG1. There is very little which is more satisfying that rolling a critical on a backstab and chunking an enemy into oblivion.

simone

what can you tell me about STR DEX....exc.(do i get fighers bonus like exceptional strength or extra HP for CON higher then 16?)

ryuken87

Yes and yes.

simone

thanks and thanks

Oxford_Guy

simone said:

what can you tell me about STR DEX....exc.(do i get fighers bonus like exceptional strength or extra HP for CON higher then 16?)

High Con also gives saving throw bonuses to shorties (halflings, gnomes and dwarves)...

Quartz

simone said:

what can you tell me about STR DEX....exc.(do i get fighers bonus like exceptional strength or extra HP for CON higher then 16?)

@simone
http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats#Constitution
This is all you need.

Oxford_Guy

Or this, which covers a few extra things e.g. Con effect on fatigue and regeneration effects at Con 20+ (possible with tomes): http://pocketplane.net/volothamp/bgguide.htm

simone

Someone said that i can't put 3 points on dual wielding at startup.Ok it doesn't matter but now I have a terrible doubt. I know that only pure fighters can put more then 2 points in a single proficiency.So....Can I put my third point on dual wielding during the game or my dual wielding proficiency will be always "2"?.
If Yes. Can I put the third point at third fighter level or i have to wait a higher level? Like 9 or...(I don't know).

Oxford_Guy

simone said:

Someone said that i can't put 3 points on dual wielding at startup.Ok it doesn't matter but now I have a terrible doubt. I know that only pure fighters can put more then 2 points in a single proficiency.So....Can I put my third point on dual wielding during the game or my dual wielding proficiency will be always "2"?.
If Yes. Can I put the third point at third fighter level or i have to wait a higher level? Like 9 or...(I don't know).

Yes, you can do this at level 3, if you have some fighter (or Ranger or Paladin) in your build

awin123

simone said:

Someone said that i can't put 3 points on dual wielding at startup.Ok it doesn't matter but now I have a terrible doubt. I know that only pure fighters can put more then 2 points in a single proficiency.So....Can I put my third point on dual wielding during the game or my dual wielding proficiency will be always "2"?.
If Yes. Can I put the third point at third fighter level or i have to wait a higher level? Like 9 or...(I don't know).

You can put 3 points into dual wield at character start if you're a class that can have 3 points and you have at least 3 points to spend at character creation.

A fighter/thief has 4 points to spend at character creation and can place 3 points into dual wield if you want to.

As a fighter/thief you can also place up to 3 points into dual wield any time throughout the game when you level up and have a free proficiency point to spend regardless of which class you gained the point from.

Oxford_Guy

awin123 said:

You can put 3 points into dual wield at character start if you're a class that can have 3 points and you have at least 3 points to spend at character creation.

A fighter/thief has 4 points to spend at character creation and can place 3 points into dual wield if you want to.

I think in BGEE they said in the fix log that they're going to limit the maximum number of points you can put in a single proficiency on character creation to two.

simone

Ok thx! But....the third point.....? Is it available at third level?

Oxford_Guy

simone said:

Ok thx! But....the third point.....? Is it available at third level?

Yes, I'd answered that already earlier

Abel

Oxford_Guy said:

Or this, which covers a few extra things e.g. Con effect on fatigue and regeneration effects at Con 20+ (possible with tomes): http://pocketplane.net/volothamp/bgguide.htm

Thanks for the link. I had a good laugh reading the Pwnergamer vs. Heartcore Brawlplayer. I find myself to be more of the former though I sometimes get sick with the latter.
An extract for you, Powerngers:

He reads full-disclosure walkthroughs, cheat codes, and uses every single opportunity available to pwn that n00b game as hard as it can possibly be pwned: If the game allows it, it's legal, and should be exploited for all it's worth—there is no such thing as "abuse." He's not happy unless he's winning winning winning; being anything less than the very best, most awe-inspiring character ever is simply a waste of his time.

simone

Thnaks! I know..poerplay is a drug and now i'm thinking about other character but i remember that BG was pretty hard so i don't want to play a character that i love but that is always almost dead.
If i have to chose only with a roleplayer mind i choose the "Swashbuckler".
But.....can i survive all BG1 with a demi fighter that can handle 2 weapons but not as good as a purefighter because of bad ac no backstab and only few proficiency points?
Another option is to play a fighter up to level 6 and then dual to a thief(probably this is the best option because for roleplaying i prefer to be a human then a elf) but the dual class procedure is not clear to me.
EXP:When i reach fighter level 6 I put my next proficiency, i roll my D10 for HP and then i dual or if i choose to dual when reaching level 6 I start with a 1level thief and a fighter level 5?
Any suggestions?

Abel

About dual-class.
I really advise against dual-classing so late and here's why:

Me said:

I would say dual at 3 or 4 great maximum, otherwise it will require a lot of experience.
If you choose to dual at 3, reactivation comes at 9k. At 4, it requires 18k (x2). At 6, 72k (x8).
The increase in power isn't worth the pain you will have starting over your character and waiting until mid-game for your class to reactivate.

When you choose a dual-class your first class stay at the level it was. So if you leveled up to 6, it says 6 and your second class starts at 1.
If you're taking the dual-class route Fighter>Thief, you should pick a kit like the Berserker, unless you want to invest heavily in ranged weapons.

simone

My idea of role playing is about a humnan light armored fighter with high speed and dexterity dual wielded and with thieves skills(Best option and that's why i talked about the swashbuckler)...suggestions???
Otherwise my second choice is a ranger(maybe stalker but is completly different)but sneaking, lockpicking and backstabbingis the most funny way to play my PC character.

reedmilfam

Simone - people dual after a 'gain' of something. For fighters, look at attacks per round to decide when is best. FTR 9 is one of the more popular, although 13 is also.

simone

Do you know if they rised the xp cap?
Because i was thinking about a fighter dualled to swashbuckler at level 3!
So i can play a funny character (swashbuckler) with more proficiency points.
But if they leave the same xp cap i can't reach level 10 with the swashbuckler(second step of -1 ac -1 thac0 +1 damage).
Anyway....i understand that i want to play as a thief so....Any suggestions for a funny but not underpowered character?
Can a pure swashbuckler be a good choice?(for dual wielding the answers is no....not enough in BG1)
Another question about dualling...
If i reach level 3 with my fighter my thac0 base is 18. Because the progression i 1)20 2)19 3)18.
Now i start playing my second class(thief). level 1 and 2 thac0 base 20, level 3 thac0 19, level 4(reactivation)thac0 18(the fighter one) but what happens at level 5?Do i start gaining 1 point of thac0 every 2 levels from the fighter thac0(18)or my thac0 0 progression 20 20 19 19 18 18....so i have to wait level 7 to have thac0 17?
Another question...What happens to my dualled character in BG2EE?

moody_mage

The XP cap will remain at 161,000. But if you are playing on the PC version it is easy enough to change this.

Once you reach level 5 as a swashbuckler your progression will proceed at either your Swashbuckler THAC0 or your level 3 Fighter THAC0, whichever is better. So if a Swashbuckler needs to reach level 7 to have a THAC0 of 17 then that is when you will get it.

Your duelled character will continue to progress as a Swashbuckler in BG2EE.

simone

Thank you!
I was thinking about a pure Swashbuckler
If you compare a 10 level SB with a 10 level F/T the F/T si better...but if we try to compare the two character in terms of xp progression things are different.
Let's think about an elven F/T and an elven SB (just because F/T must be non human).
1)F/T xp 160000 level 7/8
THAC0 base 14 -1(spec.)=13
AC base 10
HP max 59 (no CON bonus)
ATTACK 2/1 (i think)
6 Proficiency points
Backstab allowed
Expep. strength allowed
Extra HP for 17 CON allowed

2)SB xp 160000 level 10
THAC0 base 14 -1(spec)=13
AC base 7
HP max 62(no CON bonus)
ATTACK 1/1 (+2damage)
4 proficiency points
No backstab
No Excep. strength
No Extra hp for 17 CON

Maybe the F/T is still better but thinking in terms of xp you can see that things are changed.
I would like to know your opinion.

simone

Another things...save throws of the SB at the same xp progression are 1 point better
Ok that's a little thing

simone

misstake! SB HP MAX 60