What are 'normal' stats for a 'normal' person?

Legend

I remember reading an outline somewhere, perhaps in a D&D manual, that described, roughly, what different stat brackets represented - for example,

1-3 Intelligence means illiterate and barely able to speak.
4-7 Intelligence means, uhm, pretty dumb,
8-12 Intelligence is 'average' for an 'average' person.
etc. etc.

(I have no clue if those are correct or not by the way, I just made them up for an example.)

Does anybody know where these might be described in more detail online somewhere? Or if anybody remembers from experience?

I was just thinking about it the other day, what is considered 'normal'.. and wished I could have found a reference. Not just for intelligence, but for every stat.

That's all I was wondering! Any info would be much appreciated!

Kurona

For humans 9 is the racial average.

Shikao

First question, in which edition? =P
I am no expert, but I guess the answer might be different depending on edition =]

fateless

The answer does vary slightly depending on edition. I could be wrong but I think I'm remembering 3.x having a slightly higher average number. Then again I know of character builds that could get a stat into the 30's or 40's so...

In second edition the average was like 8 or 9.
5th edition the average for any particular stat is 10 and the natural max for them is 20 (it takes items and special things to be able to raise it over that point. Even with points gained as you level up.)

Legend

Oh sheesh, I can't remember which edition at all, or even if it was a D&D manual I read it in, it could have been online I suppose. If it was a manual then it would have certainly been 2nd or 3(.x)rd edition, but out of those I have honestly no clue.

8 or 9 being the average is interesting though. I wish I could find the page where these stat brackets are described, it really went into some detail on what each 'bracket' represented for each stat. So you got a proper feel about what the difference between, let's say, 12 constitution, and 16 constitution actually meant.

Shikao

@Legend, do you mean this article? (it's for 3ed)

Chnapy

I'm pretty sure 3rd ed npc average was 10-11 (ie the average from 3d6) but I don't really know if it's clearly stated and where. In pathfinder at least, npc stat is a 3 point buy, making 10.5 the average (standard npc array is 8/9/10/11/12/13).

Legend

Shikao said:

@Legend, do you mean this article? (it's for 3ed)

You know I can't remember if that's exactly what I read or not (the page doesn't ring a bell), but that's exactly the sort of thing I was looking to find! Thank you!

Edit- looking that over, I'm pretty sure what I read originally was more detailed and had a more serious tone. But nevertheless, that's still pretty handy for getting a good idea.

Artona

That's interesting article, @Shikao, but it doesn't explain much about extraordinary Intelligence. If my INT is 19, then I "may invent new processes or uses for knowledgeę, but when it's 20, then I'm "probably the smartest person many people know". But what people? Some villagefolk, or residents of Candlekeep?
With, 25 INT I am a "famous sage", but someone with INT 20, smartest person many people know, couldn't be famous sage?
Or to put it differently - was Einstein 19, or 21, or 25?

EDIT: Of course those are just mine personal doubts, not anything aimed at you.

GreenWarlock

1st Edition STR tables probably had some handy references, such as max bench press, to equate to modern human norms. Of course, Faerun has a rural economy much more tubed to manual labor, so typical STR probably would be higher than a modern Western economy. Similar, IIRC, 1st Ed suggested 10 IQ per INT, so 10 would be an average 100, 15 is 150, official genius level, and 180 IQs are pretty extreme, even today. Super-high IQs beyond that mostly correspond to testing your test-taking ability. I don't have good measures for the other stats, but do remember and early Wizards of the Coast game that essentially tested you for the game's stats, and you played yourself as an alternate reality invaded - I /think/ it was called something like Primal Order, but could be confusing it with another game.

Legend

Artona said:

That's interesting article, @Shikao, but it doesn't explain much about extraordinary Intelligence. If my INT is 19, then I "may invent new processes or uses for knowledgeę, but when it's 20, then I'm "probably the smartest person many people know". But what people? Some villagefolk, or residents of Candlekeep?
With, 25 INT I am a "famous sage", but someone with INT 20, smartest person many people know, couldn't be famous sage?
Or to put it differently - was Einstein 19, or 21, or 25?

EDIT: Of course those are just mine personal doubts, not anything aimed at you.

Mm yeah Arton those were exactly the sort of questions I was mulling over the other day. I am pretty dang sure there IS information out there regarding it all though.. I'm just not sure where.

GreenWarlock that's interesting about the intelligence stat! I've never heard that before. Makes it seem a little strange how many 'genius' mages there are around..

DreadKhan

Average of 3d6 is 10.5, so average in 2nd ed was 10.5. That equates to 3 10s and 3 11s.

fateless

2nd ed's idea of average was actually slightly less than what characters actually had. It was in the 8-9 range. hero's afterall are meant to be at least slightly a cut above the rest to be what they are.

Pathfinder somewhere actually outright says that average is considered 10. And that's why when you hit 10 you have no negative or positive modifier. 5th edition gives more basic but the same principle.

tbone1

IIRC the average human, at least in versions < 3, is 10.5. This is the average of 3d6, which was how stats were determined back in the day when things were mechanical and (according to me smart aleck son) color hadn't been invented yet.

Everyone had house rules, natch. One DM I knew let us roll 4d6 and use the best 3. One let us use 3d6 but could +/-. One let us use best 3 of 4d6 on one stat, but had to use 2d6 on another. (Which one person called "the pucker rolls" because he once got a 5 on the 4d6.)

fateless

Most of those house rules like 4d6 are actually options that were listed in things like first and second edition books or other similar games like sword and sorcery for developing characters. The pointbuy system didn't come along until later. (I want to say at least 3.x but I could be wrong. some supplemental rulebook for second may have had it.)

So 4d6 drop the lowest, Rolling multiple times, Rolling an extra set of dice,picking the stat order, and even 2d6+6 are all mentioned in some of those older editions. Some went even farther and chose multiple forms of these and that is where the house ruling came in primarily.

However. Average that you would roll on the dice were not always indictative of the actual average stat of any old commoner npc you met on the street. Just of the PC's themselves. There has always been somewhat of a distinction between those two groups.

karl_maulder

I remember reading an old preview (or perhaps an article) on Wizards, about optional dicethrowing (for unearthed arcana 3E, that was never included in the book). The author wrote about optional rules that his group used in 1E for attributes depending on the class. For instance, you rolled a 9D6 for the most important stat, followed by a 8D6 for the second most important stat, while only rolling a 3D6 for the least important stat, to truly represent the stats of a hero, that should be more powerful than an average human.

@Legend In 3E there are tables for each stat that gives an example of what each even number represent. A strength of 18 is the same as of a Minotaur, 16 - a large shark, 10 - a human.
An Int of 18 is as smart as a mindflayer, while an Int of 2 represent the intellect of a dog.