My first play through in almost 2 decades? ... group composition ...

Loomis

I'm try so hard to not hugely metagame but I want a group I like so I've been researching a bit trying to gloss over any spoilers of story and items ... so please no story or item spoilers when answering if possible...

Does this seem like a fun group ? That covers most things ? Not looking for most powerful group ... just cool good aligned group ... maybe one neutral not sure

1.) Me:.......................................... PC - Cavalier / Tank
2.) Ajantis: ................................... DPS/Melee/Backup tank
3.) Yeslick or Branwen: ............... Buffs/heals/some Melee DPS back up
4.) Coran: .................................... DPS / ranged / pick locks and other thief skills except traps
5.) Imoen: ................................... Thief mage 4-5/9 100 in traps not sure the benefit of 5th level thief vs mage quicker in game
6.) Neera:.................................... Wild mage seems fun plus I already bought her heh

I know any party can go through the game I'm sure but this one seems cool and put days of thought into it ...

Opinions? Thoughts on priest? Leaning towards Yeslick since good alignment but is Pure cleric maybe better at end of BG:EE don't care about BG2:EE yet will buy it later though

Anyway I enjoy theory crafting a little and thought this would be cool group

malachi151

My main advice is to dual Imoen at level 5 like you plan. If you dual at 5 you can get her find traps to 95 and open locks to 60. Honestly all you really need in open locks is 60 because you can use potions to get higher level in it if needed, plus you're getting Coran later.

Yeslick and Branwen can be very different. When properly geared Yeslick can be a solid tank, but not really Branwen. But you'll be the tank, so you may not need him.

My main advice is not to use a 6 man party. I prefer 4 or 5 at most. With 6 people the leveling gets quite slow.

Also, in some future play-through defiantly take Minsc and Dynhaer (sp?). They are great.

Also, with you being a Cav, Minsc is probably a better partner than Ajantis. But with you being a Cav, for me, I'd take Two Handed Swords on my PC and let Ajantis be the main tank with Sword and Shield because he's already got 2 points into Bastard Swords and he doesn't have good strength, so may as well let him take on that role while you maximize your damage.

Ajantis isn't a good DPS character, but Minsc and Kivan are, so either of those would be better partners if you plan to be tank and want another melee DPS.

Enuhal

Hey,

This party will certainly perform to your liking. Keep in mind that you only get access to Coran and Yeslick relatively late in the game, so you might want to take someone else along before getting to them (like Branwen instead of Yeslick or Kivan instead of Coran). There are many things one could change to get to a more efficient setup, but there's really no need to do so - if all you want is get through the unmodded game and have a fun time doing so, almost any party composition will work

jsaving

Agreed, the game is winnable with whatever party composition you choose so the group you're envisioning certainly seems up to the task! I do notice you have two paladins, though, so you could consider a ranger/cleric for your main if you wanted a bit more variety in the party.

Zaghoul

Make someone a master pickpocket, or lvl of a temp NPC to keep near a choice vender. Bumps cash up over the game at least a couple 100k, Well, I like my pickpockets.

Ravenslight

Nearly two decades you say… You are in for such a treat!

I personally would pick Yeslick for this party, but really either would work just as well.

Elendar

Coran can be a bit tricky to use.. Either you just run with a 5-person party until you get into the Cloakwood, or you go into the one area open to recruit him and then keep traveling back and forth hoping for an ambush by wyverns so you can kill them to complete his quest. Or you could use Kivan for ranged damage until you can recruit Coran, but keep in mind Kivan will leave the party if you don't clear the bandit camp within a certain amount of time.

Yeslick also comes really late, but you can just use Branwen until then

Also agree with Malachi on Imoen, dual her at 5 or even at level 6. Dualing her at 5 gives you x3 backstab modifier, if you like to backstab with thieves. At level 6 she should have enough points to cover both traps and locks , 85-90 in both is sufficient, really only in Durlag's Tower would she have issues with any traps or locks and potions of master thievery are plentiful in the game. Then Coran could focus on setting traps or stealth or you could just go with Kivan.

Also, at level 6, Imoen would still be able to reach the maximum level for a mage in Baldur's Gate, which is level 9. The only downside to it is that it would take longer to get her thief levels back. But if you have Coran he should able to handle anything that you really would need him to with some potions.. Also don't forget the level 2 mage spell Knock will open any locked doors or chests, too.

Ravenslight

I guess I never thought of Coran or Yeslick as not becoming available until late in the game as I usually follow the main quest line without many detours until Baldur’s Gate city opens up. This way I still have most of the game yet to explore at my leisure, without having any of these areas closed off.

GreenWarlock

I'm going to speak in favor of the 6-person party, as seems your preference. The large party levels more slowly, but there is still more than enough XP in the game to hit the level and xp caps by the end of the game. The benefit of the 6 person group is that you get to actually use more of the cool toys you find exploring the game. Yeslick. in particular, is well rewarded for claiming all the booster kit - although you may need to switch in some BeamDog characters on occasion if you want to see the whole game, as the three extra NPCs all have their own additional quest that you will not see without them in the party.

My main concern with this party is that you and Ajantis seem to overlap considerably, and he will likely feel like an understatted you by the end of the game. That said, he is still a pretty solid choice, and I love taking a cavalier through the sequel, if that is your plan for the PC.

Loomis

GreenWarlock said:

I'm going to speak in favor of the 6-person party, as seems your preference. The large party levels more slowly, but there is still more than enough XP in the game to hit the level and xp caps by the end of the game. The benefit of the 6 person group is that you get to actually use more of the cool toys you find exploring the game. Yeslick. in particular, is well rewarded for claiming all the booster kit - although you may need to switch in some BeamDog characters on occasion if you want to see the whole game, as the three extra NPCs all have their own additional quest that you will not see without them in the party.

My main concern with this party is that you and Ajantis seem to overlap considerably, and he will likely feel like an understatted you by the end of the game. That said, he is still a pretty solid choice, and I love taking a cavalier through the sequel, if that is your plan for the PC.

You were correct the overlap was not fun or maybe didn't enjoy Cavalier as charname ...

New party is

Charname - archer
Ajantis - tank
Minsc - Melee 2 handed dps
Coran - bow dps / Locks / stealth
Branwen - straight cleric buffing machine instead of the multi yeslick since I have two great up front guys
Imoen - 4/9 mage - traps - .... the reason for 4/9 in my thinking was don't need locks on here with coran and can get her thief dual abilities back quicker and level the mage faster ... not playing bg2ee on this run anyway ...

thoughts? My group is around level 4 now on chapter 3 playing hard difficult with the xtra damage turned off so I just get more monster chars to spawn with a little better abilities ... I'm finding that this group may be to powerful thus far as I'm just not dying much with the pause function and being able to get the front line on the mobs while pew pew from back plus cleric buffs ... I may go to insane and try it or just start a new party that has more challenge ... I think this one is way to powerful thus far ... I could turn the extra damage on but that just seems artificial in nature

Thoughts?

Enuhal

The best way to increase difficulty is to install difficulty increasing mods like SCS. I generally don't like the extra-damage from hard or insane as well, as it is an unnatural thing for D&D, while SCS mostly plays fair. Still, if you want a challenging early game, one option would be to play on Legacy of Bhaal difficulty - though in all mentioned cases, you'd have to start a new game.

If you want to experience a challenge with your current run, why not go for an encounter that your party is a bit underleveled for? You could rush to the Iron Mine, try your hand at the Ice Island or Durlag's Tower. Most encounters in the wilderness areas will not challenge a well-balanced party with some levels under its belt too much in the vanilla game.

GreenWarlock

In BG(EE) a heavy melee party will do fairly well once they hit 3rd level, until you start to meet some more challenging foes later in the game. So you have already passed the tricky low levels, and now have some reasonable kit and hit-points. So you really are in the part of the game where your party hit a purple patch and feels invulnerable - it is a well balanced, easy-to-manage party.

If you are using rest-spam, then the game will feel even easier. I make a point of resting only at inns, unless in real emergency (and the risk of a random encounter when trying to rest becomes a real risk). This is the only real limitation I place on myself, and I find enough challenge once the monsters start piling status effects on top of the damage.

Of course, in terms of power-gaming, the archer is probably the single most overpowered PC for the first game, where range damage is king. That effect will fall off rapidly when you hit the second game, which leans increasingly towards the mages as you hit higher levels.

UnderstandMouseMagic

@Loomis

" I could turn the extra damage on but that just seems artificial in nature "

I'd say that the extra damage makes it more realistic rather than that being "artificial in nature".

In reality, what damage could a fighter/person recieve before they became incapacitated?
So bump the damage up and that's a truer reflection (albeit an extremely limited way to reflect "real" fighting) of how you would deal with hostile groups intent on killing.
Instead of being able to shrug off injury, you have to avoid it wherever possible and if you can't avoid it, then it should be serious enough to alter behavior.

Most fighters died of infected injuries rather than being killed outright on the battlefield I think.
So injuries should be very damaging and very serious if there is going to be any reflection of RL.

Loomis

@Enuhal I barely if at all rember those encounters at all been lost two decades since I played plus I'm on iPad so no mods thanks for reply though ... I did buy games on PC for my laptop though ...can't wait to use those mods you spoke of ... hard to get my lazy butt off the iPad at the moment though since I can lounge around anywhere in the house all laid back playing on the iPad Pro heh

Loomis

GreenWarlock said:

In BG(EE) a heavy melee party will do fairly well once they hit 3rd level, until you start to meet some more challenging foes later in the game. So you have already passed the tricky low levels, and now have some reasonable kit and hit-points. So you really are in the part of the game where your party hit a purple patch and feels invulnerable - it is a well balanced, easy-to-manage party.

If you are using rest-spam, then the game will feel even easier. I make a point of resting only at inns, unless in real emergency (and the risk of a random encounter when trying to rest becomes a real risk). This is the only real limitation I place on myself, and I find enough challenge once the monsters start piling status effects on top of the damage.

Of course, in terms of power-gaming, the archer is probably the single most overpowered PC for the first game, where range damage is king. That effect will fall off rapidly when you hit the second game, which leans increasingly towards the mages as you hit higher levels.

Thanks for reply I'm just getting feet wet again after almost two decades since I played last ... I will not be taking this charname to bg2ee I think I might go bard or something interesting and full of cool things to do ... yeah with this archer I have and coron together it's ridiculous at the moment but I'm sure end game will keep me on my toes I have not entered the city yet

malachi151

It's a good party IMO. I think turning up the damage is just fine. Also, things will get harder in the city and you have all of the new content like Durlag's Tower and Werewolf island, which will be challenging with almost any party.

BTW, Kivan is a better archer than Coran actually because he hits fighter level 7 much faster. It's actually hard to get Coran to fighter level 7, so in many games Coran will be 1/2 an attack behind Kivan for most of the end game. That's not to say that Kivan is better, because Coran has thieving ability, but in terms of pure damage, I find that Kivan actually outpaces Coran most of the time. Both get THAC0 low enough that they hit virtually 100% of the time.

Indeed overall I think Kivan is the best DPS char in the whole game because he's in the top 3 for both ranged and melee DPS, whereas most other chars can only be good in one or the other at a time, but he can be good in both at the same time.

Ammar

UnderstandMouseMagic said:

@Loomis

" I could turn the extra damage on but that just seems artificial in nature "

I'd say that the extra damage makes it more realistic rather than that being "artificial in nature".

In reality, what damage could a fighter/person recieve before they became incapacitated?
So bump the damage up and that's a truer reflection (albeit an extremely limited way to reflect "real" fighting) of how you would deal with hostile groups intent on killing.
Instead of being able to shrug off injury, you have to avoid it wherever possible and if you can't avoid it, then it should be serious enough to alter behavior.

Most fighters died of infected injuries rather than being killed outright on the battlefield I think.
So injuries should be very damaging and very serious if there is going to be any reflection of RL.

No, I disagree. You might make a good argument that a more lethal combat system could be fun, but it is not more realistic as it is one-sided. For it to be realistic, it would need to apply to enemies as well, like the realistic mode of the original Deus Ex.

Myself, I strongly prefer RPGs that are symmetric, so that players and enemies play using the same rules. This is why I like SCS, but not something that just increases enemy HP and damage.

brunardo

Bring Minsc, his comic relief will bring back fond memories and hes pretty versatile

malachi151

If you want a fun and challenging playthough then I suggest a caster heavy party. I did one using Minsc as the tank, with myself as a Sorcerer, Imoen dueled at 5 as the only thief , and Dynaheir. If you want a larger party you could throw in Branwen or Yeslick.

DonCzirr

My party is somewhat similar but I dropped Ajantis as I could not take his Casey Kasem / Helm Altar Boy aura.

I got Kivan as my leader in battle locations now and his whispering angst is much more palatable.

I am very enthused as I've finally seen that a "good" party (that does not cause gritting of teeth and severe indigestion) is possible with just a few sacrifices ....

I also am finding that a Kivan, Minsc and Imoen firing squad can be quite lethal with the right kit on hand ...