Paladin with Purifier

histamiini

I'm currently soloing Cavalier lv21, have done Paladin quest in SoA and pretty much nothing else. I've these proficiencies:

Two-Handed Swords **
Bastard Swords **
Scimitars ** (did BG1 and SoD with Drizzt's Scimitars)

Two-Handed Weapon Style **
Two Weapon Style ***

Using Carsomyr currently, but would like to change it up when I find Purifier and dual it with something else, Foebane being one option already. The question is which to invest last 4 points?

Flails:

Flail Of The Ages +3/+5, obvious choice
Defender Of East Heaven +2, 20% physical resistance stacking with Armor Of Faith and Hardiness

Axes:

Axe Of The Unyielding +3/+5, obvious choice

War Hammers

Crom Faeyr +5, obvious choice

Or something from the Long Swords? Is there a clearly better options, or is it just the matter of taste?

Borek

You covered the basics, can make a case for most of the end-game weapons but Paladin is custom-made for Purifier/Carsomyr so you'll probably be looking at and offhand that has encounter specific effects more than maximum dps, and that will depend on your other items to some extent.

histamiini

Yeah would like to keep 100 MR, so using Purifier with something else. I've 176 hitpoints, AC -16, THAC0 -13 with Carsomyr, Free Action effect from Ring Of Free Action +2 and Doubled Movement Rate from Paws of Cheetah.

How does physical resistance work? First AC decides hit and then PR reduces it accordingly? Can AC be so low that PR doesn't matter, and is 20% and -1 AC noticeable with DoEH? I think I can still reduce AC -1 with better armor, but that's probably it.

THAC0, does it have a low cap, or point that you always hit (except critical miss)?

I will have 24STR after Hell Trials, so Crom Faeyr might not be as useful either?

Borek

histamiini said:

Yeah would like to keep 100 MR, so using Purifier with something else. I've 176 hitpoints, AC -16, THAC0 -13 with Carsomyr, Free Action effect from Ring Of Free Action +2 and Doubled Movement Rate from Paws of Cheetah.

How does physical resistance work? First AC decides hit and then PR reduces it accordingly? Can AC be so low that PR doesn't matter, and is 20% and -1 AC noticeable with DoEH? I think I can still reduce AC -1 with better armor, but that's probably it.

THAC0, does it have a low cap, or point that you always hit (except critical miss)?

I will have 24STR after Hell Trials, so Crom Faeyr might not be as useful either?

As a rule once you get to ToB, and even late into SoA then AC becomes progressively less useful, enemies have such enormous chance to hit that you'll still get clocked often and hard, so Physical Resistance becomes more and more useful, especially as a solo Paladin. Load up Hardiness + DoEH and cast your level 1 Armour of Faith for a total of 95% Physical resistance (98% and +1 con if you use Helm of Dumathoin). But yes, you do need to be hit for DR to come into effect, so you can switch out DoEH for something else depending on the encounter, after all if you are not being hit then may as well add in a weapon that's better damage or has a more useful effect.

Crom isn't that great when you're rocking 24 Str naturally, definitely some better alternatives, Axes maybe for Azure edge/Klogawhatever for a ranged option Vs undead or a +4 ranged with a knockdown.

histamiini

Damn forgot Armor Of Faith all together. So DR is actually way to go. I think I'll be taking flails, and trying axes.

One more guestion about Saving Throws, if AC becomes less useful, would it be better to change AC to Saving Throws? Do Saving Throws have a min cap, or point that you will be always saved? I've currently -3 vs spells.

There really should be a FAQ or table that compares, THAC0, AC, DR, MR and Saving Throws, their usefulness and caps.

Something that I noticed, Pride Of Legion +2 describtion says it has -5/-4/-4 modifiers, but my character page says it has -4/-3/-3, I wonder which is correct?

Borek

histamiini said:

Damn forgot Armor Of Faith all together. So DR is actually way to go. I think I'll be taking Flails, and trying axes.

One more guestion about Saving Throws, if AC becomes less useful, would it be better to change AC to Saving Throws? Do Saving Throws have a min cap, or point that you will be always saved?

There really should be a FAQ or table that compares, THAC0, AC, DR, MR and Saving Throws, their usefulness and caps.

Saving throws tend to take care of themselves, you'll be using Ring of Gaxx and a +2 item of protection i would imagine, with a level 17+ Paladin you will have extremely low saves and unless enemy mages are casting Greater Malison and then using a spell with a -4 modifier like Symbol of Stun/Fear you'll be pretty safe. I mean they do sometimes like to flop out a GM and hit you with some nasty combos but you have stated your goal is 100% magic Resistance from items, so they will need to Lower resistance on you to even bring the saving throws into the mix and even then you will still have Magic resistance even if it's lowered.

With the class you picked and the stated goal of achieving 100% MR i would say saving throws are not a concern, Fighter 17+ is 3/5/4/4/6 +2 for being a Paladin, +2 from evil enemies casting on you if you have Prot evil, +4 Ring of Gaxx and +2 protection item means your worst Save is a zero without protection from evil, -2 with it.

Just remember that certain enemies cast Imprisonment which will Ignore MR and has no save, so you must target them as a priority when encountered and have some method of disabling them because you do not have access to Mage spells as a solo Paladin. Options to do this could be Staff of the Ram upgraded for the Knockback (ToB only), Klogawhatever thrown axe for the knockdown, Celestial Fury stun, various Vorpal hit weapons possibly, insta-kill effects for demi or specific normal Liches that cast it from Mace of disruption, runehammer, azure edge. You can also use HLA's such as Smite or Power attack for the attempted stun/knockback but i think the safest option in cases where the Spell is usually only cast once per encounter, which is most of them except the Demi-Liches (use Protection from Undead scrolls for those), would be to summon a Deva to draw the imprisonment whilst you chew gum and kick ass.

histamiini

Yeah imprisonment will be issue, but I was planning using that book from Brynlaww which lets everybody cast Spell Turning, shouldn't that help also?

Borek

I believe the Book switches page when used, so you're looking at a single casting, useful yes, but definitely not a solution to every occasion Imprisonment is likely used on you. There's Elder Orbs that can cast it, although they don't usually do so immediately, Lich released from the Prison in Underdark, Twisted Rune i think the Lich and maybe also the Wizard, some of the casters at the Key encounters in WK, 2 Demi-Liches, i think ToB has a few bosses that are capable of casting it also, so it's certainly possible to get around it. The best method i think will be to use Animate Dead or Summon Deva and hope you get lucky with throwing Azure edge at the Liches.

May want to stock up on prot.Undead scrolls, then it's just the non-undead casters/Orbs to deal with, Orbs are particularly rough as they will Anti-Magic ray you and usually cast Stoneskin at the start of the fight, so you need a bit of luck regarding what order they decide to unload their spells, although Carsomyr will hopefully let you carve them down in round 1 as it'll remove the Stoneskins.

It's do-able for sure, but you'll need to be careful at a few encounters, it can easily catch you out.

histamiini

I tested it not a long ago, and the book doesn't change page after casting. I think spells appear in random order on the pages, so some savescumming might be needed to find the correct page. It still only has one cast per day though.

I always stock on Undead scrolls, and Magic Resistance scrolls for BG1 and SoD. Shield Of Balduran is one way of dealing the Beholder rays.

histamiini

The Protection From Magic scroll also gives protection against Imprisonment? Atleast I completely pwned Kangaxx SCS, he didn't even hurt me. Used PfM-scroll against the Lich form, and waited his defenses to end, then attacked with one Greater Whirlwind. When he switched to Demilich, I used one Protection From Undead scroll, and double Greater Whirlwinded him away.

Borek

histamiini said:

The Protection From Magic scroll also gives protection against Imprisonment? At atleast completely pwned Kangaxx SCS, he didn't even hurt me. Used PfM-scroll against the Lich form, and waited his defenses to end, then attacked with one Greater Whirlwind. When he switched to Demilich, I used one Protection From Undead scroll, and double Greater Whirlwinded him away.

I believe the Prot.Magic Scroll works vs Imprisonment yes, but i have not used it myself since the undead ones are more numerous. SCS probably adds some issues to using undead scrolls tho as i believe they will fight back rather than stand there drooling whilst you beat them to death lol. They may not be able to see you, but i read they cast AoE spells and use summons to make it a fight.

histamiini

Yeah Lich forms spam spells with PfU, but his Demilich form just stood there.

ThacoBell

AC is actually not useless in ToB, you just need it to be higher. If you can get it to -20, most enemies will whiff their attacks.

histamiini

I wish there would be a THAC0 table of enemies, so you could estimate how low AC you need. Demogorgon has THAC0 of -8, so you would need a -28 AC to him to hit only with 20 and with -20 AC he still hits 45% of time. DR is much easier and viable atleast at this point.

Damage Reduction for Paladin

40 Hardiness (lv18)
25 Armor Of Faith (lv20)

20 Defender Of Easthaven (SoA)
5 Cloak Of Gargoyle (SoD)
3 Helmet Of Dumathoin (SoD)

93 Overall

And although 100 DR is impossible I think, rolling 20 doesn't bypass it like it does with AC?

Borek

Correct, damage reduction will work on anything that deals Crush/slash/thrust damage, regardless of crit or normal hit. You can get over 100% DR if you have a class/combo that has natural damage reduction (DD/Barb) and combines it with something that can cast Armour of Faith, or use the Cloak from Rasaad's quest that has a chance to cast Armour of faith when used.

Cloak of atonement (each use of the cloak subtracts 1 con for 8 hours from wearer and randomly cast one of the following: Armor of Faith, Chant, Chaotic Commands, Death Ward, Shield of the Archons)

histamiini

True although that cloak has 30% chance of AoF, so you would be savescumming to get max 113 DR.

Khyron

Afaik all classes stop gaining caster lvls at class level 20. Paladins do not gaining caster lvl before class 8, meaning he never exceeds caster lvl 12, meaning he wont get the full benefit of AoF.. just saying

Could be wrong, but i do remember something about thus..

histamiini

Khyron said:

Afaik all classes stop gaining caster lvls at class level 20. Paladins do not gaining caster lvl before class 8, meaning he never exceeds caster lvl 12, meaning he wont get the full benefit of AoF.. just saying

Could be wrong, but i do remember something about thus..

I just tested it, you're partly correct. Paladin wont get the full benefit until level 28, but he will get it.