Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

IWD's Greatness Compared to Baldur's Gate - What Could Have Made it the Better Game?

HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
edited November 2012 in Off-Topic
Over the past few weeks (ok, ok, months... I'm slow at these things) I've been enjoying Icewind Dale as I await Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition to be released. I have to say, I *love* this game. The frozen north, the music, the landscapes, the sense of adventure, the creative license to craft an entire party and write their back stories, great voice acting from Hrothgar, to Kresselack the Black Wolf, to Yxunomei, to narration work done by Charles Emerson Winchester the Third (aka David Ogden Stiers).

I think this game has a more purely adventurous feel then Baldur's Gate. And I can honestly same sometimes I enjoy it more. I'm sure I'm in the minority there.

I honestly don't think it will happen... but I do hope that Icewind Dale will have a shot at an Enhanced Edition. I think it certainly deserves one.

I do think there's some things that could have made this game *better* then Baldur's Gate (you heard me!). I'm sure not all will agree, but here's my two cents on what could have been done differently:

1) More Content Between Dungeon Areas - Despite its strong points, the game had a plot train / perpetual dungeon-crawl feel. I would have personally loved if when you agreed to find the missing caravan for Hrothgar in Easthaven, that you had a larger area of land to scout out before locating it. Maybe a whole map region or two, with some of their own sub-plots or even clues to the evil that was beginning to plague the region. Additionally, how about some overland travel areas inbetween dungeon locations, ala Baldur's Gate? It's weird that I can march 3 days to Dragon's Eye and never get an encounter along the way -- The journey there should be half the adventure. This is the Spine of the World, isn't it?

2) Re-Worked Expansions - Trials of the Luremaster sucked. Why have an expansion that takes you *out* of Icewind Dale and the Spine of the World. It's such a vast area, the fact that you're teleported from the region for an adventure seemed like a cop-out to me. Additionally, while I liked some aspects of Heart of Winter, I thought the whole Barbarian seeing you in his dreams and coming to Kuldahar seemed forced. I would have preferred just an added map where you find adventure (ala the Sword Coast expansion in BG) rather than someone seeking you out as the "Chosen Ones".

3) More Content/Options for an Evil Party - Icewind Dale is geared for a good party, period. Sure there's a fair amount of items only usable by "non-good" characters, and some snarky dialog options, but that's about where it ends. Many times the narrator addresses your party as "Would-be Heroes". It makes playing non-good characters a non-plus. Address the party as Adventurers and drop the whole "Heroes of the Ten Towns" thing.

4) A Reduction of Conlan's Magical Item Inventory - I've said this in other posts and I'm sticking to it. This dude should be a king of a nation, not a blacksmith in Icewind Dale -- Look at his wealth! Put some of these items in random dungeons and *greatly* reduce his inventory. I know money needs to be a viable resource ( @Tanthalas made a good point here on an early post about this very thing), but it still can be without so many magical trappings for sale here. Things are expensive enough as it is in the game. Which leads to my next point...

5) Make it a Bit Easier to Make Money - Don't eliminate the challenge, but money should come a bit easier than it does. Why do none of the goblins in the Kuldahar Pass drop any coin? Things like that always bothered me. If you added more content between dungeon areas, money of course would also likely be easier to come by.

6) Orrick's Ever-Changing Inventory - STOP IT.

7) Add Back Missing/Cut Content - @Camdawg has done a great job of doing this with his "Unfinished Business" mod which I've just recently installed. Some of the content (especially the Paladin quest in Dorn's Deep) really adds to the game and helps flesh it out. Additionally, some of the items that are written for the game but are not obtainable in the game, are great. Bracers of AC 2 for a mage? Yes Please! Beats the AC 6 bracers you can get otherwise.

8) Get More Creative and Less Ridiculous With Items - I believe that people want items that are well thought through and interesting. For example, I'd much rather see a "Snow Maiden's Reaver" then a "Bastard Sword: +3 Incinerator". Why? Because of its backstory and name. Some of the items in Icewind Dale are just lacking in the creativity department (Long Sword of Action +4?). Additionally, the balance of some items was pretty bad. HoW made some changes here to try to balance this out, because they were VERY OP (Ring of the Warrior Thief was *ridiculous*).

9) The Random Treasure Debate - I admit, Random Treasure has grown on me. I think it can be tedious to get what you want, but it certainly makes each party a bit different and adds to replayability. I will pass on changes here.

10) More Weather Effects - Ok it probably doesn't rain in Icewind Dale, but how about some heavier snow - or maybe even near-white out Snowfall. That would have been cool.

There it is. My personal recipe to make Icewind Dale the better of the Infinity Engine games. It will never have the NPC banter, romances, or some of the unique and awesome things that make Baldur's Gate so great, but adding in your own creativity I think can make up for this a lot.

Sorry for the book - I'd also be interested to see other thoughts on what could have made IWD better.




MoomintrollQuartzginger_hammerSCARY_WIZARDBelgarathMTHIzrealZeckulSilyRadioactiveGaryRuckus3CrevsDaak
«1

Comments

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,420
    I seem to be one of the few modders who's turned out a lot of content for IWD, so I'm obviously inclined to agree that IWD doesn't get a lot of love compared to BG/BG2.


    1) More Content Between Dungeon Areas - Despite its strong points, the game had a plot train / perpetual dungeon-crawl feel. I would have personally loved if when you agreed to find the missing caravan for Hrothgar in Easthaven, that you had a larger area of land to scout out before locating it. Maybe a whole map region or two, with some of their own sub-plots or even clues to the evil that was beginning to plague the region. Additionally, how about some overland travel areas inbetween dungeon locations, ala Baldur's Gate? It's weird that I can march 3 days to Dragon's Eye and never get an encounter along the way -- The journey there should be half the adventure. This is the Spine of the World, isn't it?

    To be fair, BG and BG2 have segments where you're being railroaded as well (e.g. Candlekeep return through the BG finale or the Brynnlaw through Spellhold segment in BG2). However it's mitigated somewhat by the fact that you have some actual party members that continue to let you roleplay, even when you lack plot choices.

    More wilderness areas to wander through would be pretty awesome, but I think you could make the same case for any game except BG.


    4) A Reduction of Conlan's Magical Item Inventory - I've said this in other posts and I'm sticking to it. This dude should be a king of a nation, not a blacksmith in Icewind Dale -- Look at his wealth! Put some of these items in random dungeons and *greatly* reduce his inventory. I know money needs to be a viable resource ( @Tanthalas made a good point here on an early post about this very thing), but it still can be without so many magical trappings for sale here. Things are expensive enough as it is in the game. Which leads to my next point...

    The major problem with Conlan's inventory is just that the items are ridiculously overpriced. You've got a slew of +3 weapons (with great stories, sure) that are priced in the 25k+ range, whereas they run a more reasonable 10-15k in BG/BG2. The rep bonuses you can get in BG/BG2 make them even more reasonable at shops, which is an advantage you don't get in IWD.

    6) Orrick's Ever-Changing Inventory - STOP IT.

    DavidW coded up a component to keep all of his previous inventory available throughout the game for IWD-in-BG2, which I'm going to add to the next version of IWD Tweaks.


    7) Add Back Missing/Cut Content - @Camdawg has done a great job of doing this with his "Unfinished Business" mod which I've just recently installed. Some of the content (especially the Paladin quest in Dorn's Deep) really adds to the game and helps flesh it out. Additionally, some of the items that are written for the game but are not obtainable in the game, are great. Bracers of AC 2 for a mage? Yes Please! Beats the AC 6 bracers you can get otherwise.

    Thanks, but a lot of the credit here has to go to JE Sawyer, one of the original IWD devs. He allowed me to pester him with lots of questions so I could develop the content, particularly with the Voice.

    8) Get More Creative and Less Ridiculous With Items - I believe that people want items that are well thought through and interesting. For example, I'd much rather see a "Snow Maiden's Reaver" then a "Bastard Sword: +3 Incinerator". Why? Because of its backstory and name. Some of the items in Icewind Dale are just lacking in the creativity department (Long Sword of Action +4?). Additionally, the balance of some items was pretty bad. HoW made some changes here to try to balance this out, because they were VERY OP (Ring of the Warrior Thief was *ridiculous*).

    Yeah, most of the u* items are just items for the sake of variety in the random drop tables. On balance I find the items (and their descriptions) far more compelling than any other IE game though.

    MoomintrollHaHaCharadeTanthalasDrugar
  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
    I think the issue with IWD is that it's intentionally a very different style to BG. It's intended to be a party-based dungeon crawl with plenty of fighting and looting. The shame is that it's such a rich environment that there could have been so many more RP and story opportunities.

    Personally I feel that you don't need to compromise RP and plot to have a great sense of adventure, in fact, these games work best when all of those components come together.

    CyhortRadioactiveGary
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    edited November 2012
    CamDawg said:



    DavidW coded up a component to keep all of his previous inventory available throughout the game for IWD-in-BG2, which I'm going to add to the next version of IWD Tweaks.

    Ha, thats awesome!

    Post edited by HaHaCharade on
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    Icewind Dale is awesome if you just look at it from a good adventure game perspective. I've enjoyed it a lot and will again in the future.

    @CamDawg
    The quests were awesome, so another thanks from me as well. Even if one of the devs was a good source of information, somebody had to put it in, so thanks!

    HaHaCharade
  • CyhortCyhort Member Posts: 78

    I think the issue with IWD is that it's intentionally a very different style to BG. It's intended to be a party-based dungeon crawl with plenty of fighting and looting. The shame is that it's such a rich environment that there could have been so many more RP and story opportunities.

    Personally I feel that you don't need to compromise RP and plot to have a great sense of adventure, in fact, these games work best when all of those components come together.

    Totally agree. I never played the original, only IWD2, but I loved the character creation and the environments were great and the combat was fun...but the lack of a great BG like story and RP opportunities really killed it for me. I can only have fun with mindless combat for so long, then I want a story to draw me in and give me a reason for playing beyond "evil bad guys must be stopped" and getting loot.

  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    edited November 2012
    @Camdawg - In regards to your next Unfinished Business update, do you have any plans to add in any additional "Minor Item Restorations". While importing in some of the pre-genned characters I discovered that there were even more items I'd never seen before. Things like "Elven Sewn Gloves" and "Elven Sewn Boots" which appear to be from the Severed Hand, but aren't currently in the game. Just curious if you purposely left some things out.

  • ARKdeEREHARKdeEREH Member Posts: 531
    edited November 2012
    Side quests and joinable NPCs with dialogue are the two features that would have made me enjoy Icewind Dale 1 more. For Icewind Dale 2 those two are also important, but I would add 2nd edition rules and allowing characters to be imported from the 1st game as key features that would have made that game enjoyable for me.

    HaHaCharade
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,420

    @Camdawg - In regards to your next Unfinished Business update, do you have any plans to add in any additional "Minor Item Restorations". While importing in some of the pre-genned characters I discovered that there were even more items I'd never seen before. Things like "Elven Sewn Gloves" and "Elven Sewn Boots" which appear to be from the Severed Hand, but aren't currently in the game. Just curious if you purposely left some things out.

    Good catch! I can add them; they seem like a natural fit for Lehland's shop.

    It's more or less impossible to go through file by file and determine if something's used (especially since there are so many leftover BG resources present), so I rely a lot on tools like NI that can give a pretty good first-order approximation. It didn't flag these since they're "used" by the character files.
    ARKdeEREH said:

    Side quests and joinable NPCs with dialogue are the two features that would have made me enjoy Icewind Dale 1 more. For Icewind Dale 2 those two are also important, but I would add 2nd edition rules and allowing characters to be imported from the 1st game as key features that would have made that game enjoyable for me.

    Like @HeroicSpur and @Cyhort mention above, they were designed from the outset to be different in flavor from the BG series. Kulyok's IWD NPC is a pretty good hack to get a party w/ banter into regular IWD, and @DavidW and I have a pretty ambitious conversion project to bring IWD into the BG2 engine with the insightful name of IWD-in-BG2. It allows for all sorts of goodness like NPCs, kits, sorcerers, dual-wielding and all the other goodies that come with the BG2 engine. The current version (7.13) is pretty solid, and it supports all of my IWD mods and IWD NPCs.

    HaHaCharadeMoomintrollTanthalas
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,851
    Good thread. I think IWD:EE could be absolutely excellent. The game always felt to me like it was a beta. All the major details were there, but there was no polish. If you polished the crap out of Icewind Dale (adding lots of exploring areas like you said, more interactions, possibly NPCs...) it would be absolutely fantastic.

    HaHaCharadeMoomintroll
  • MarricMarric Member Posts: 53
    edited November 2012
    I completely agree, in fact I'd think IWD would benefit more from an Enhanced edition than BG (which felt more "polished" to me)

    In regards to More Content Between Dungeon Areas; this is something that I absolutely loved from BG, the sense of exploration and truly setting off on a quest (rather then just being dumped into the next location), that was missing from IWD and BG2. As the NPC mod points out (I think its Severn) its called Icewind DALE not Icewind CAVES. Heck I wouldn't mind if there were substantially less dungeon and more windswept tundra and winding mountain paths; more expansiveness, less claustrophobia inducing crawls. This goes well with the reworked expansions I feel, make the expansion content a more natural part of adventuring in Icewind Dale. On a related note, I'd love to see more Kresseleck the Black Wolf, he's such a cool/intimidating character with fantastic voice acting.

    Speaking of NPCs: while I do appreciate that its a different game, with a slightly different style to BG, I think it could really benefit from some NPCs to join your party. The storyline (which I think is quite good, better than BG2, if not as good as BG1), would be significantly enhanced from a Nella-like character, someone who actually attaches your party to what's happening to Kuldahar. Other NPCs that I would find interesting: There's a throw away interaction in Easthaven if you talk to a townsperson with a dwarf, about a dwarven expedition to reclaim Dorn's Deep; actually have a dwarf with that as their goal and purpose for joining your little group would be also deepen the story. A fighter/caravan guard near death outside the Orc caves would fit in well. Somehow convince Aldwin to come with you, or maybe his cousin/brother. It would actually make more sense if Conlan came with you - of course then they'd have to implement an alternative blacksmith, which might actually be an easy "fix" for the OP's 4th point. Similar you could have an Illmater priest come with you searching for mother Eugine. It would give the whole story more purpose if you're party had a reason for going on it besides "we're stuck in Kalduhar/Its the good think do." In an enhanced edition I could imagine the possibility of 7 or 8 NPCs, which you could then complement/replace with you own created PCs. Such that you could play with all NPCs including your main starting character (the "mysterious" messanger form Kuldahar perhaps?) to an all PC created party, so you could adapt a given game to have more sidequest/interjections/chatter/romances even or none an even more straight dungeon crawl if that was your desire.

    Regarding 5 - I've never had this problem, maybe cause the only items I feel are worth buying at the Robes of Enfusing, the 2 bard items, and the Helm of the Trusted Defender/Rogues Cowl if my thief isn't a halfing for some reason.

    8 - this is huge and always bugs me! Conlan carries a bunch of items with great names and amazing back stories (which as already mentioned he probably shouldn't), yet they're basically just standard +3 weapons with no interesting abilities or really point in getting them. Yet the most powerful/useful/loads of special abilities items have generic names (Long sword of action +4, Fast Flail +2, Battle Axe +2: Defender). This is the exact opposite of how it should be. The cool weapons should have the cool names/back-stories the generic +3s can just be Flail +3/Halberd +3. Oh also this game desperately needs some full plate mail to go with all the cool cloaks/rings of protection style items (Mitran's Cloak, Cloak of Storms, etc)

    10 - Better weather effects: Yes Please! Especially with more open areas this would be an excellent addition (and the druid's call lighting ability would actually be useable, yay!) One of my favorite BG moments was when Minsc in Full plate and got hit by a bolt of lighting during a rain storm, I was so immersed in my exploring that when it happened I physically jolted in my chair. It was great!

    Finally (if anyone actually read this far, thank you) an addition I'd like to see would be more "boss fights" at the ends of chapters, a la Yxunomei (she is great especially the creepy little girl leadup, although she could use more hitpoints, last play though, on hard difficulty, she died to a pair of critical hits for 64 damge). Lysan for instance, is a much easier fight than some of the skeleton rooms, yet is the last/boss fight of that area; buff her up substantial so she doesn't get decommissioned by simple hold/silence spell, and give her some decent support, an acolyte or two, winter wolves instead of yetis's, her own cold of cold style attack, etc. Give the Severed Hand a massive battle against a powerful Orc general, make it feel like we're actually fighting something that could have taken down an eleven stronghold. Then cut back the "towerlets" some, make it more about putting the elves to rest, solving the astrolabe puzzle, a kinda peaceful interlude, rather than further slogging through mindless undead. The Lich in Dorns deep could do with some buffing to, although he's probably much harder if you haven't already killed him a dozen times and don't know what you're doing, so maybe he's ok. Joril and his frost giants could also do with some powering up, specifically they're attack seem to be really easily interrupted, a hasted party goes through the entire cavern of them before the haste wears off, like a scythe through wheat. In 2e they were one of the more powerful giant subtype, yet their weaker Fire giant brethren make a credibal ToB level threat, that's just not fair.

    Post edited by Marric on
    HaHaCharade
  • recklessheartrecklessheart Member Posts: 692
    Say, @HaHaCharade ... there's no chance your number 8 was in part inspired by my constant bitching about generic magical item titles in IWD on almost every IWD thread on the forums? If so; cheers. If not; I agree with this point being an issue of contention. :P

    HaHaCharade
  • SecriaSecria Member Posts: 85
    edited November 2012
    How can Orrick's inventory change? Who bought anything? The town being snowed in and all.

    HaHaCharade
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    Secria said:

    How can Orrick's inventory change? Who bought anything?

    Probably that asshole Conlan

    Drugarwaardenius
  • SecriaSecria Member Posts: 85

    Secria said:

    How can Orrick's inventory change? Who bought anything?

    Probably that asshole Conlan
    Maybe he likes to torture adventurers with his awesome stuff nobody can afford.

    HaHaCharade
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    Quartz said:

    Good thread. I think IWD:EE could be absolutely excellent. The game always felt to me like it was a beta. All the major details were there, but there was no polish. If you polished the crap out of Icewind Dale (adding lots of exploring areas like you said, more interactions, possibly NPCs...) it would be absolutely fantastic.

    Yeah man. The areas they have are so epic. If they added more, like zoomed the map out and spaced them out, it would be totally awesome.

  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    edited November 2012
    Marric said:



    In regards to More Content Between Dungeon Areas; this is something that I absolutely loved from BG, the sense of exploration and truly setting off on a quest (rather then just being dumped into the next location), that was missing from IWD and BG2. As the NPC mod points out (I think its Severn) its called Icewind DALE not Icewind CAVES. Heck I wouldn't mind if there were substantially less dungeon and more windswept tundra and wind mountain paths, more expansiveness, less claustrophobia inducing crawls. This goes well with the reworked expansions I feel, make the expansion content a more natural part of adventuring in Icewind Dale. On a related note, I'd love to see more Kresseleck the Black Wolf, he's such a cool/intimidating character with fantastic voice acting.


    I 100% Agree! I love Kresselack. Tony Jay was a kick ass voice actor. They add some info about him in some of the item descriptions in Icewind Dale 2. Check this one out:

    "Saga of Wandering Sky"
    --------------------

    The saga of Wandering Sky is a tale of hearth and home told by many skalds of the North. The tale exemplifies the persistence and strength of the barbarian spirit.

    When the legions of Arakon the Arch-Mage swept across Icewind Dale, the Tribe of the Bear was among the first of the tribes to meet his assault. Overwhelmed by the superior forces, the barbarians fought bravely, but they were no match for Arakon's forces. One of the tribe's eldest hunters and warriors, Hreidgar, was knocked unconscious during the battle, and he awoke to the sky tearing at his face and the remains of his fellows around him. Of his wife and children, there was no trace, and without a word, Hreidgar took up his great sword and followed the path of Arakon's army, determined to reclaim them and avenge the fallen.

    Hreidgar was among the first to pledge his blade to the barbarian shaman Jerrod when he united the tribes against Arakon, and he served tirelessly in the great battles ahead, even on the darkest day when Arakon unleashed armies of the hells against Jerrod and the tribes. In every battle, Hreidgar and his greatsword were as one, howling like the wind as he drove his enemies back... and to their deaths. But when Arakon was at last defeated, no trace of Hreidgar's wife and child were to be found.

    Hreidgar continued his search, and his journey of many years is said to have taken him across the great cliffs of the Reghed Glacier during the Season of Raining Spears, upon the Sea of Moving Ice where he sailed with the Tribe of the Great Whale and fought slavers from the south, and then to his final destination, the small town of Enholm's Point, where he stood with the handful of the town's defenders against the army of Kresselack the Black Wolf. It is said Hreidgar fought so fiercely that Kresselack conceded the field in honor of the warrior - but not before striking the fatal blow that would end the warrior's life.

    Bleeding from numerous wounds, Hreidgar is said to have wandered north from Enholm's Point, traveling for many miles before collapsing to his knees. With the last of his strength, the old warrior plunged his blade into the ice and said he had finally found what he had been seeking. "Let the sky wander," he proclaimed, "for my travels are done."

    When the townsfolk of Enholm's Point returned the next day to carry his body away, they found Hreidgar, but his blade had vanished. It is said that the blade now wanders as the sky wanders, finding its way to others with long journeys before them... and guiding them to their final destination, whatever it may be



  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    edited November 2012
    Marric said:



    Oh also this game desperately needs some full plate mail to go with all the cool cloaks/rings of protection style items (Mitran's Cloak, Cloak of Storms, etc).

    YES. Funny that in all of Dorn's Deep you don't find any basic sets of it. The +2 Mithril Plate was cool till HoW made it magical. The way armor is currently setup, by end game, Cloaks and Rings or protection are virtually worthless cept for your mage.
    Marric said:



    Finally (if anyone actually read this far, thank you) an addition I'd like to see would be more "boss fights" at the ends of chapters, a la Yxunomei (she is great especially the creepy little girl leadup, although she could use more hitpoints, last play though, on hard difficulty, she died to a pair of critical hits for 64 damge).

    I swear Yxunomei is tougher before you install Heart of Winter. She was a b*tch. They dumbed her down. Used to be the only things that would hit her was +3 weapons, so you had to use +2 arrows (which became +3 when fired from a bow that granted the other plus) or Conlan's Hammer (which can hit anything), or the Sword of Days which is a +3 Short Sword that pops in her level of Dragon's Eye sometimes (random). There's a mod out there somewhere that makes her hard again that I need to try and find.

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,420
    edited November 2012



    Marric said:



    Finally (if anyone actually read this far, thank you) an addition I'd like to see would be more "boss fights" at the ends of chapters, a la Yxunomei (she is great especially the creepy little girl leadup, although she could use more hitpoints, last play though, on hard difficulty, she died to a pair of critical hits for 64 damge).

    I swear Yxunomei is tougher before you install Heart of Winter. She was a b*tch. They dumbed her down. Used to be the only things that would hit her was +3 weapons, so you had to use +2 arrows (which became +3 when fired from a bow that granted the other plus) or Conlan's Hammer (which can hit anything), or the Sword of Days which is a +3 Short Sword that pops in her level of Dragon's Eye sometimes (random). There's a mod out there somewhere that makes her hard again that I need to try and find.
    Yxunomei's the same, just a lot of weapons got fixed. She's immune to normal and +1 weapons, with or without HoW. The misconception comes because a lot of the items were fixed in HoW--i.e. Erevain's broadsword +2 was fixed in HoW to behave as an actual +2 weapon and can now hurt her, whereas IWD thinks it's a +1 weapon and Yxunomei is immune. (Also enchantment levels from bows and arrows don't stack, so your +2 arrows from a +1 bow behave as +2 weapons, not +3.)

    Auril's Bane gives her immunity to +2 weapons as well, but it comes with the drawback of having to install Auril's Bane.

    HaHaCharade
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    @CamDawg

    Thanks for the explanation. That always bothered me.

    By the way, I dunno if you saw this post in the other thread its in (its kind of buried), but check out the screenshots of these videos you can get in IWD by trying to save before Hrothgar talks and then reloading... pretty crazy. Figured you'd get a kick out of them if you didn't know they existed already. It surprises me how much junk is in these games that we never see. lol.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4325/have-you-ever-noticed-any-errors-in-the-baldurs-gate-or-icewind-dale-series-that-cracked-you-up#latest

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,420
    Yeah, I've been following that thread, even though I haven't commented in it. :) Your time-traveling book was removed in IWD Fixpack v3, for example, as was the incorrect journal entry. The cutscene bug is a poorly timed variable set, which I should be able to get in v5.

    HaHaCharade
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    What it comes down to is pacing.

    BG moves at the pace the player wishes. IWD just throws heaps and heaps and heaps of enemies your way without anything to really break up the monotony of combat.

    Blakes7Aristillius
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582

    What it comes down to is pacing.

    BG moves at the pace the player wishes. IWD just throws heaps and heaps and heaps of enemies your way without anything to really break up the monotony of combat.

    Yeah I see what u mean but keep in mind in ur in the Spine of the World vs. The Sword Coast... But yeah there is a lot more combat I admit.

  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    @CamDawg Just an FYI - Besides "Elven Sewn Gloves" and "Elven Sewn Boots" there's also an "Elven Sewn Cloak" on there too. I think that's all of em.

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,420
    Yep, caught those and a hunting helm, too.

  • LadyEibhilinRhettLadyEibhilinRhett Member Posts: 1,078
    Optional joinable NPCs might have been a nice touch, I guess. More explorable areas and in-between content to make it feel less streamlined may have been interesting too, I guess, but I think the tightened scope is part of what gave it that great feel of adventure, so I'm kind of glad they didn't add in more of that. @HaHaCharade mentioned that BG doesn't have as much of a "purely adventurous feel", and I think this is partially because of BG's many maps. Oh, don't get me wrong, I love exploring all over the place, but just that ability to go into the wilderness, take on sidequests all over the place, or just wander around, made it REALLY easy to get distracted from the main quest, and I remember a lot of times when I just forgot what the hell I was supposed to be doing. It's the focus on the quest that helps IWD really bring out more of a sense of adventure. More rigid framework is not always that much of a bad thing.
    To tell you the truth, there's not much I can think of that would make IWD better. I like it just the way it is.

    The expansions are another story:

    1. Integrate better.

    2. Make them, you know, actually make sense

    3. DON'T FREAKING NERF YXUNOMEI, SERIOUSLY, WTF WAS UP WITH THAT. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW EPIC I FELT THE FIRST TIME I BEAT HER? PRETTY FREAKING EPIC. AND NOW. BAM. ALL THE CHALLENGE IS GONE. I LOOKED FORWARD TO THAT FIGHT EVERY DAMN PLAYTHROUGH, DAMMIT. IT'S ENOUGH TO MAKE ME JUST WANT TO UNINSTALL ALL THE DAMN EXPANSIONS AND PLAY VANILLA IWD, BUT HOW HAS SOME AWESOME SPELLS AND ONE OF MY CHARACTERS USES THE NEW VOICESETS SO NO DICE.

    Moomintrollwaardenius
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582

    Optional joinable NPCs might have been a nice touch, I guess. More explorable areas and in-between content to make it feel less streamlined may have been interesting too, I guess, but I think the tightened scope is part of what gave it that great feel of adventure, so I'm kind of glad they didn't add in more of that. @HaHaCharade mentioned that BG doesn't have as much of a "purely adventurous feel", and I think this is partially because of BG's many maps. Oh, don't get me wrong, I love exploring all over the place, but just that ability to go into the wilderness, take on sidequests all over the place, or just wander around, made it REALLY easy to get distracted from the main quest, and I remember a lot of times when I just forgot what the hell I was supposed to be doing. It's the focus on the quest that helps IWD really bring out more of a sense of adventure. More rigid framework is not always that much of a bad thing.
    To tell you the truth, there's not much I can think of that would make IWD better. I like it just the way it is.

    The expansions are another story:

    1. Integrate better.

    2. Make them, you know, actually make sense

    3. DON'T FREAKING NERF YXUNOMEI, SERIOUSLY, WTF WAS UP WITH THAT. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW EPIC I FELT THE FIRST TIME I BEAT HER? PRETTY FREAKING EPIC. AND NOW. BAM. ALL THE CHALLENGE IS GONE. I LOOKED FORWARD TO THAT FIGHT EVERY DAMN PLAYTHROUGH, DAMMIT. IT'S ENOUGH TO MAKE ME JUST WANT TO UNINSTALL ALL THE DAMN EXPANSIONS AND PLAY VANILLA IWD, BUT HOW HAS SOME AWESOME SPELLS AND ONE OF MY CHARACTERS USES THE NEW VOICESETS SO NO DICE.

    There's a mod that makes her hard to kill again somewhere

  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    @Camdawg - Hey I just wanted to let you know I've been trying to sign up for a G3 account... I keep getting "500 Internal Server Errors" during the account validation (on both email links provided). Figured your server might have taken a day off for Thanksgiving :P

    I was going to recommend for your next IWD Fixpack update to maybe take a look at the journal entry you get when you go to the Root Cellar Tavern and talk to the serving girl Amelia. She tells you of Aldwin possibly taking over the Shade of the Evening inn under dubious circumstances (You must talk to her first before you talk to Aldwin or you won't get the journal entry). After your conversation with her, you get a journal entry that calls her a wench and wonders how you can exploit the situation at the inn. Definitely an evil entry and you get it even if you don't choose the more snarky dialogue path. I was wondering if there was a less inflammatory entry possibly scripted but not used in-game for whatever reason. Or maybe they just got lazy on this one... lol.

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,282
    IWD's fun is party creation and dungeon crawling - why would anyone remove that? =/

    The most important detail , in any game, is immersion - as long as you feel that your custom party is part of that world and that their actions affect it , it will be a cool game.

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,420
    We've been having some minor issues as a piece of the forum software seems to have been corrupted. Since I no longer keep the backups for the site I've let Kat know and we should have it back to normal soon. Ironically, it looks like your registration went through and the error was in the confirmation. Try logging in.

    As for Amelia, yeah, it's got the journal entries swapped. You basically have five options from her dialogue there--one if you've already resolved the Evening Shade issue, two if you haven't heard her story (one evil, one non-evil), two if you have (one evil, one non-evil). The journal entry you mention is the evil option; the non-evil one reads:
    Amelia, a barmaid at the Kuldahar tavern mentioned that Aldwin, a halfling, had taken over the ownership of the Evening Shade Inn when its previous owner vanished. Aldwin presented a claim that seemed to indicate that Eidan knew he was going away - but according to Amelia, Eidan didn't know how to write, and even if he did, he was stricken with the palsy. We should look into this; Aldwin may know what happened to the missing people.

    HaHaCharade
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,582
    CamDawg said:

    We've been having some minor issues as a piece of the forum software seems to have been corrupted. Since I no longer keep the backups for the site I've let Kat know and we should have it back to normal soon. Ironically, it looks like your registration went through and the error was in the confirmation. Try logging in.

    As for Amelia, yeah, it's got the journal entries swapped. You basically have five options from her dialogue there--one if you've already resolved the Evening Shade issue, two if you haven't heard her story (one evil, one non-evil), two if you have (one evil, one non-evil). The journal entry you mention is the evil option; the non-evil one reads:

    Amelia, a barmaid at the Kuldahar tavern mentioned that Aldwin, a halfling, had taken over the ownership of the Evening Shade Inn when its previous owner vanished. Aldwin presented a claim that seemed to indicate that Eidan knew he was going away - but according to Amelia, Eidan didn't know how to write, and even if he did, he was stricken with the palsy. We should look into this; Aldwin may know what happened to the missing people.



    Thanks! Yeah it also seems to update your journal with the evil option the minute you talk to her. If you scroll up in the conversation, the "Your Journal Has Been Updated" line happens right after she tells you how much of a jerk Aldwin is, but before you get to where you choose either the good or evil reply, so it seems like where it triggers might be an issue.

Sign In or Register to comment.