Best Cleric/Ranger proficiency progression, given EE 2.x changes?

Nerva

Sorry if this specific question has already been asked, but the in-forum search is garbage, and when I google this I get nothing but outdated threads.

Given that EE 2.x now makes it possible to easily toggle between dual-weapons and a sling without needing to manually re-equip, I'm wondering what the optimum progression is now for proficiencies with a Cleric/Ranger, after factoring in what the best weapons are and at what levels they tend to become available?

I was going to just import my classic BG1 Cleric/Ranger into BG2EE, but it is giving me all sorts of problems (even moreso after trying it in 2.x), so I am thinking I will just re-create him as a new character in BG2EE and then edit the savegame to give him the attributes my BG1 character had after getting the manuals/tomes. So I'm trying to figure out what starting proficiencies to give him, and then where to put new ones when he levels up.

unavailable

Why wouldn't you play it as a tank? It has armor of faith and duhm for that very reason. Would start with flails and maces, and then warhammers. Or maybe start with war hammer if you decide to start from BG1 because I hear it has one of those hammers with infinite throws.

Pantalion

Given the limited gear options for C/R combined with the high number of proficiency pips, there shouldn't be much problem with proficiencies.

Level 1:

Sling ** (Honestly even with the gear changes you should always have the biggest bestest shield handy for when you're wielding a sling or throwing hammer)
Warhammer **
TWF ** (Third pip is a trap. Avoid until you have literally nothing else worth getting.)

Level 6:
Flail **

Level 12:

Mace **

Level 18+

TWF *** (May as well) and Clubs ** to finish up for full variety (staves are for wizards, Harry).



Gear access:

Warhammers have two solid ones - Ashideena straight off, then the Hammer of Dawn as soon as you have access to the Gate.
Slings have +3 one in Durlag's you can push for early, and having a ranged option early on is always valuable, +1 and +2 ammo is rare compared to arrows you find on everyone, but with strength bonus to damage (and 19 strength) you'll be very competitive with full time archers by level 7.
Flails: You can also get a +2 Morningstar as soon as you can get into the Gate, and they hit hard enough that even lower enchantment versions routinely outdamage warhammers and maces.

BG2:

Flails and Slings have early fantastic options you can access right out of the Chateau.

Hammers have some decent utility options you can also access immediately that they become available, and Crom Faeyr eventually, which will become your main and/or offhand weapon of choice depending on the situation. Throwing hammers are honestly pretty tame for you, since you can't have daggers and your main weapon adds strength anyway (and with DUHM you're easily throwing sling bullets with 25 strength after stat boosts).

Mace of Disruption proficiency at level 12 is plenty to ensure you have even fewer problems with vampires than a Cleric with level 7 spell access would anyway, and other than Storm Star there's nothing you want or need compared to those early access flails.

Both maces and clubs have some vague interest in having inbuilt AOE options in Stormstar and the Club of Detonation, which give them some value if you're fighting hordes of enemies (with a Greater Weapon Whirlwind that's 1 AOE every two rounds on average, potentially a massive boost in damage against a large horde), but neither is available until ToB and you'll have access to both by then (potentially keeping TWF *** until your last pip).

malachi151

So, starting in BG2, I think clearly Maces and Flails are the way to go assuming you want to run him as a tank. Mace for Mace of Disruption and Fails for Flail of Ages. That still leaves you with 2 more pips to go into Slings. The you can put your level 9 pip into War Hammers and finish that off at level 12. I'd put the level 15 pip into 2 weapon style personally, because not much else matters at that point and a Cleric/Ranger will be a little behind in THAC0 anyway.

There aren't great War Hammers early on, but obviously great ones later, so I wouldn't worry about getting that a little later.

I'd plan on getting Easthaven Defender for the off hand, and switching between FoA and MoD (against Undead) for most of SoA.

Pantalion

malachi151 said:

So, starting in BG2, I think clearly Maces and Flails are the way to go assuming you want to run him as a tank. Mace for Mace of Disruption and Fails for Flail of Ages. That still leaves you with 2 more pips to go into Slings. The you can put your level 9 pip into War Hammers and finish that off at level 12. I'd put the level 15 pip into 2 weapon style personally, because not much else matters at that point and a Cleric/Ranger will be a little behind in THAC0 anyway.

There aren't great War Hammers early on, but obviously great ones later, so I wouldn't worry about getting that a little later.

I'd plan on getting Easthaven Defender for the off hand, and switching between FoA and MoD (against Undead) for most of SoA.

One point to consider for Warhammers is that the +1 Hammer +4 against Giantkin is one of around three weapons that Clerics can hurt Kangaxx with, and is available long before the Mace of Disruption.

unavailable

should probably take the third point of two weapon fighting before the underdark. I used a cleric/ranger recently, and he had a hard time hitting any of the drow at about 1.5 million experience points. I was lucky though, because I had haer'dalis tagging along with his his crazy good dexterity draining short sword.

Nerva

So, how often, or at what levels, does it make more sense to use weapon/shield instead of two-weapon? If it does play a significant role, what about taking proficiency in weapon/shield?

Pantalion

Nerva said:

So, how often, or at what levels, does it make more sense to use weapon/shield instead of two-weapon? If it does play a significant role, what about taking proficiency in weapon/shield?

TWF is never a penalty for the C/R, because it never gets a THAC0 mainhand penalty, which is where most of its attacks come from.

Any time you're wielding a sling: Use a shield. Otherwise, sort of situational depending on who or what you're facing and how hard that thing is hitting you.

Shield style only gives bonuses to AC against missile weapons, which shouldn't be necessary in BG2 with the Shield of Reflection (which is absolute immunity), or in BG1 with a Large shield and Belt of Anti-Piercing's sizeable AC bonus against Missiles. It can be safely ignored.

ThacoBell

That's a complicated question. What do you consider to be the "best" weapons?

malachi151

Other than the Shield of Balduran, I'd never use a shield on a cleric/ranger, especially if you use Defender of Easthaven.

As for Maces vs Hammers: I've never taken on Kangaxx before getting the upgraded Mace of Disruption, nor has it ever seemed like that was an issue. I mean it never even entered my mind to take him on that early. Improved Mace of Disruption can be had before you go to Spellhold, and I've never tried to beat Kangaxx before Spellhold, but maybe some people do that, but even still.

Upgraded Mace of Disruption is a 10 X better weapon against Kangaxx than the Giantkin war hammer. While I've never taken him on with a Cleric, actually using the hammer in the off-hand with the MoD in the main hand may be the way to go, either that or use the Shield of Harmony with the Mace, but I typically use Jaheira with the Shield of Harmony.