NWServer 1.69 support

Mavrixio

I understand that it can't support it but can we have a solution for the other way around, like a NWNX plugin that let players using NWN:EE log on our server?

I am ready to do this plugin, at least for the Linux nwserver, all I would need is a list of the communication protocol messages that got changed with a brief description.

That way we will be ready to welcome NWN:EE player immediately when it is released with our very advanced NWServer... it is not at all like the original 1.69 NWServer anymore and I doubt that the NWN:EE improvements to the NWServer will be any close to what we (Sinfar) and probably many other persistent worlds (HG, Arelith...) have achieve with it. Maybe with time but for the start please slightly help us to make the 1.69 NWServer compatible with the NWN:EE client.

Sabregirl

This would be very helpful otherwise our playerbases could be split between enhanced and standard . . .

ShadowM

I agree, maybe they can do some kind of work around with direct connect, or ini setting related to PW.

Sarmanos

From what I gathered, they won't be compatible. NWN EE is effectively a new game patch version. Splitting is unavoidable.

Liareth

It's technically possible to do this, given enough time, but I don't think the time would be well invested. Instead, I would rather invest the time by introducing some of the features that Sinfar and other advanced PWs rely on into the base game for all developers to enjoy. I encourage you to file feature requests so we know what you need.

niv

Of course we want to help everyone migrate. I'll have to shop a few ideas around the team, so this will be a few days.

Edit: Meanwhile, Mavrixio, could you name a few of the showstoppers you'd like to see in nwserver that you would need to have in the new binary in order to be able to migrate; or is this out of the question for you? Like Liareth said, putting in useful features that everyone can use is something we're certainly willing to do.

Puffy

Sarmanos said:

From what I gathered, they won't be compatible. NWN EE is effectively a new game patch version. Splitting is unavoidable.

I have to agree tbh, if a server wants to get involved with NWN EE it will have to do what the servers used to do whenever the NwN expansions and announce it to the old/new players.

Mavrixio

niv said:

Of course we want to help everyone migrate. I'll have to shop a few ideas around the team, so this will be a few days.

Edit: Meanwhile, Mavrixio, could you name a few of the showstoppers you'd like to see in nwserver that you would need to have in the new binary in order to be able to migrate; or is this out of the question for you? Like Liareth said, putting in useful features that everyone can use is something we're certainly willing to do.

Some of the features that we would loose / have to re-implement
- A completely remade resources managers that load resources from followings rules determined by a web based module development system.
- A deep integration with MySQL: logs, players login validation, Campaign variables, players mini maps are stored in our MySQL database.
- Our web client: https://nwn.sinfar.net/webclient.php
- Some 500+ new nwscript functions, here's our extension of nwscript.nss: https://nwn.sinfar.net/res_nss_edit.php?name=inc_x_vm_funcs
- A load of new nwscripts events... some of them can be added to the new nwserver but most of them are probably too specific

We also have our own implementation of many of the hard-coded feats like devastating critical, defensive stance, Disarm, and many other hard-coded classes changes.

So I think our best option will be to make our nwserver compatible with the new client instead of redoing the hooks for all those features in the new nwserver and I dont think that the new nwserver will be as "hook friendly" as the current one?

We also have fixed all crashes, memory leaks and known exploits, but that I can help with to have them in the new nwserver

Gorgon

Mavrixio covered a lot of concerns I can think of, when looking at updating 9 modules served by Avlis (or thinking about it anyways). Fun times ahead!

We also have tweaked our NWNX plugins for several systems (odbc, hashset, and a sortset one PlasmaJohn made), and vaultster would be a high priority with CoPaP linked worlds too.

Personally, I'm in wait and see mode (literally, while the head start downloads), but I'm glad someone who knows NWNX, and how Persistent Worlds use it, is helping with these kinds of things.

zunath

As I mentioned on Discord, the nwnx_jvm plugin must be supported in order for us to migrate to EE. I understand this isn't to be ready at launch but I would like to (very persistently) request this be ported soon after.

Even setting up some sort of shim in the meantime before it's migrated would be very helpful. Please don't make me rewrite my entire server.

ShadowM

How about a patch to 1.69 to bring it network code to compatibility? At least to give some transition, that lose support with next EE patch. I know this more work, so not likely , but probably the only way.

PlasmaJohn

Gorgon said:

We also have tweaked our NWNX plugins for several systems (odbc, hashset, and a sortset one PlasmaJohn made), and vaultster would be a high priority with CoPaP linked worlds too.

As you know BD is providing an alternative NWNX specifically for custom C++ code. At worst you'll need to find somebody to port those plugins over. The cleaned up Vaultster was pulled into the nwnx.org Linux version in 2009. The code is still available via their Git repo.

FireWraith

From the player perspective, here are a few of the things that were so immediately amazing from Mav's setup:

-Character visual customization. Under those setups, almost everything could be recolored/resized/rotated as individual models or as a whole (to simulate height). VFXs could also be loaded and tied to the head model, as well as rotated/resized/colored etc, which meant that you could have a bald head model, and then add VFX hair - or even more complex things, like hats, ear piercings, eyeglasses, beards, scars, eyelashes (that blink), etc. This is probably the biggest one as a player, because the number of things it allows is massive, and characters and outfits made using that look worlds better than traditional NWN, even with lots of haks. You could also make characters with vastly more visual variety, too.

-Web client interface. This allowed a lot of things, like having an html chat window, but also allowed stuff like uploading portait files for common download among the players, editing your description via the web interface, and web based area upload for personal areas (player housing) which would go in immediately thanks to the dynamic object loading.