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Can builders make *and share* improvements to the OCs?

JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 405
in Official Campaigns
I'm obviously not a lawyer or anything, but I'm curious now why I've never found improvements made to the OCs online. I've heard that the Vault bans builders for sharing these improvements. If that is the case, it's just not making sense to me. I've seen, downloaded, and played modules and campaigns that are based off of or are total rebuilds of other games and other forms of literature. Why would making and sharing improvements to the OCs be any different than these?
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Comments

  • chbrookschbrooks Member Posts: 86
    I would guess that this might be up to Beamdog now. It couldn't happen with Neverwinter Nights, but several people posted changes to the Neverwinter Nights 2 official campaigns without any backlash from Obsidian.
  • FlashburnFlashburn Member Posts: 1,847
    edited November 2017
    Sharing the improvements you've made is allowed, but probably not uploading the entire module.
  • MadHatterMadHatter Member Posts: 145
    You absolutely can: https://neverwintervault.org/comment/10949
  • DeltharisDeltharis Member Posts: 124
    @MadHatter Huh... So... Noone ever changed the way OCs are... because noone cared enough? No additional NPCs, no new quests, everyone just went and did their own modules instead?
  • devSindevSin Member Posts: 32
    Deltharis said:

    @MadHatter Huh... So... Noone ever changed the way OCs are... because noone cared enough? No additional NPCs, no new quests, everyone just went and did their own modules instead?

    IIRC, the way the engine works means it's difficult to override campaign content (it always gets loaded last or something).

    That made distribution tricky, which I think is the reason nobody ever really bothered with the campaign modules.
  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185
    edited November 2017
    Deltharis said:

    Huh... So... Noone ever changed the way OCs are... because noone cared enough? No additional NPCs, no new quests, everyone just went and did their own modules instead?

    NWN's ground-breaking toolset was designed to enable modders to develop custom adventures. That's what attracted me to NWN modding in the first place. Speaking personally, I don't see the attraction of modding the OCs when you can do that.
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 405
    Thanks for the replies. For myself, at least, I'm not asking for any new or original content to be added. I just hope that the OCs receive the same amount of attention that they've given the Infinity games. Just patch them all up to date with what is already there. I have confidence that, unlike Bioware, Beamdog will do the right thing here. It's just early yet. And then if they're stubborn about it, it's good to see that the community *can* update things themselves then...and share any changes, of course.
  • AndarianAndarian Member Posts: 185
    Jidokwon: But there's a crucial difference between NWN and the Infinity Games that Beamdog's previously enhanced. Those were generally brilliant campaigns filled with great content, and the goal of enhancing them was to make that great content available on modern systems. The NWN OCs (original campaigns), by contrast, were considered by many to be mediocre (and certainly by comparison). It was the modding tools -- and the countless brilliant community-built custom adventures and persistent worlds they made possible -- that made NWN special, and which gave the game it such impressive longevity. This is what Trent Oster said when I observed this in a post on NWN's Facebook Group:

    Me (Tony): As with the original game, I think it's less about updating the OC than it is about updating the technology. Modding is what made NWN, and it's what could make a rebirth of it with a (hopefully) updated engine and architecture.

    Trent Oster: That was our opinion as well Tony. There is too much content to update it all, but if we can open up the capabilities of the engine and add support for newer types of content we can move the platform forward.
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 405
    edited November 2017
    @Andarian: I agree with some of that, but completely abandoning the OCs and just letting them rot isn't acceptable to me. They should, at the very least, update them to be uniform.

    Edit: Otherwise, the only thing that will be worthy of an EE title is the Toolset.
  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 367
    I don't see a lot of value in updating the OC's either.

    But there could be a new official adventure with new assets, even just a short one, to show off the capabilities of the updated engine. Something completely NEW and some good looking screenshots for marketing the EE. That would be more in the spirit of NWN.
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 405
    @1varangian: My argument there would be that, most likely, the OCs are going to be the first thing that new and returning players turn to with the EE version...as well as most reviewers. If these haven't been updated at all from their 2002 versions, first impressions aren't going to see anything different than what is already available.
  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 367
    edited November 2017
    @Jidokwon The whole point would be that the reviewers and potential players do not see the OC as the graphics can't be sufficiently improved, but something new and much enhanced instead. Make sure they know the old stuff is still there, yes. But sell the EE with what it can and will be. People are already dismissing the EE after seeing the trailer video that looks like vanilla NWN.
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 992
    This is something I always wanted to do, and that I am doing now. Issue is, there is no easy way to share the same .mod file in order to cross-check changes, and distribution would be shaky. Having said that, this is a good discovery, thanks: https://neverwintervault.org/comment/10949
  • saramakossaramakos Member Posts: 19
    Neverwinter Nights: Get down with the Sickness ;)

    Seriously though, the name of the plague sounds good: NWN: The Wailing Death or even just NWN: The Wailing (though that sounds like hunting giant marine mammals)
  • fkirenicusfkirenicus Member Posts: 331
    edited November 2017
    What about "Morag's Demise"? :-P

    Superspoiler
  • MordaedilMordaedil Member Posts: 56
    TrentOster said:

    If you wanted to do a remix of the OC, go for it. We should really come up with a name for the OC. Any thoughts on a good name for it that doesn't give away the last chapters?

    Fenthick Was Right.

    Dester is totally trust-worthy.

    Aribeth's Wild Ride.

    The Wailing Death Saga.

    That last one is the serious one.
  • MalclaveMalclave Member Posts: 47
    TrentOster said:

    If you wanted to do a remix of the OC, go for it. We should really come up with a name for the OC. Any thoughts on a good name for it that doesn't give away the last chapters?

    Here Comes Halfling Death! The Continuing Adventures of Tomi Undergallows and his Sidekick
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985
    TrentOster said:

    If you wanted to do a remix of the OC, go for it. We should really come up with a name for the OC. Any thoughts on a good name for it that doesn't give away the last chapters?

    Neverwinter and the Plague of Restartitis.



  • ThanderThander Member Posts: 6
    The only mod I can think of is the AI mod by TonyK. It made henchmen a lot more fun to use. I still hated not having full control over their actions in combat, but at least this mod lets you build up gear for them and have more AI tweaks ingame.

    https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/hakpak/original-hakpak/henchman-inventory-battle-ai-mod
  • Dark_AnsemDark_Ansem Member Posts: 992
    I would also like to suggest an interlude mod between SoU and HotU.
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    There are several such mods that were created as part of a contest. The winner was Shadohaunt, but several others are also available on neverwintervault. @fkirenicus on this forum wrote one, although I don't remember the name or have the link handy.
  • fkirenicusfkirenicus Member Posts: 331
    Thanks, Belle. :-)
    https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/module/fk-shadow-relic
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,108
    Now that I've got the EE finally, I'm replaying SoU and HotU. I plan on using your module as the bridge. :)
  • aarionnaarionn Member Posts: 94
    Oh, I am playing OC now, but I will also use fkirenicus for SoU -> HotU!

    I would probably never play it if not for BD and making NWN in focus again! Hope for a even more awareness in the future!

    New campaign from BD would do miracles :)
  • Taro94Taro94 Member Posts: 125
    I've always thought the original campaign's name is simply... Neverwinter Nights. What's wrong with a campaign sharing its name with the game?
  • MrDamageMrDamage Member Posts: 210
    Aribeth off the top turnbuckle
  • raz651raz651 Member Posts: 175
    TrentOster said:

    If you wanted to do a remix of the OC, go for it. We should really come up with a name for the OC. Any thoughts on a good name for it that doesn't give away the last chapters?

    Neverwinter Nights: It's a really sick game! :p
  • TrentOsterTrentOster Administrator, Developer Posts: 433
    I kinda like the suggestion from another topic: "The Wailing Death".
  • saramakossaramakos Member Posts: 19
    TrentOster said:

    I kinda like the suggestion from another topic: "The Wailing Death".

    Also suggested on here, just below your last comment :)
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