Forget steam

TarotRedhand

On this evening's twitch announcement there were a lot of people asking about steam and in particular about steamworks. I can only conclude that they are new to NwN. Forget steam. Head over to the neverwinter vault for 15 years and counting of stuff. Yes it ranges from the awful to the absolutely brilliant. Community run unlike steam which dropped support for nwn for quite some time. There is also the neverwinter nexus.

TR

Trinital

Haha Hey Tarrot.

I agree 100%. Steam offers no value other than segregating the community and putting mods in a curated marketplace with heavy handed controls and brickwalls.

Not only does it add another online platform we have to upload mods to.. (Sitting at 3 now) it also excludes everyone who bought the game on GoG or Beamdog.

Waste of development time.. Please low priority this issue.

BelgarathMTH

I think it would be nice if the Steam workshop supported all the huge universe of user-created content. However, I really don't understand what that might entail, plus, I understand from @Niv that he wants all future control of user-created content to stay in the hands of private websites like the new Neverwinter Vault.

It was a HUGE blow to the NWN community when IGN pulled the plug on the old Vault, and then Bioware pulled the plug on the old (second generation) forums. The community was very badly burned by those experiences, and I don't think they will ever forget that.

As for the Nexus, I haven't been able to download anything there for years. They had an enormous, identity-stealing security breach there a few years ago, and my account got nuked in their draconian attempts to guarantee that it wouldn't happen again. I have no idea how to get my Nexus account active again. It keeps asking me to do stuff that I consider to be a further security breach in order to reactivate my account, or maybe I just don't remember whatever info it wants to verify my account, and I have no way to recover it, or whatever. The Nexus is now permanently no longer an option for me to download anything.

TarotRedhand

Actually it was the third generation of forums. EA had 2, one of which they've re-purposed for selling mass effect points for buying dlc.

TR

MadHatter

I would just caution that those of us who have been around NWN for a long time not poo-poo newcomers enthusiasm. A ton of people are going to get the game on Steam, click the Multiplayer button, and populate our community really, really soon.

No reason to be negative about it. We already have the Nexus and it isn't the end of the world.

Trinital

MadHatter said:

I would just caution that those of us who have been around NWN for a long time not poo-poo newcomers enthusiasm. A ton of people are going to get the game on Steam, click the Multiplayer button, and populate our community really, really soon.

No reason to be negative about it. We already have the Nexus and it isn't the end of the world.

It's more about wanting devs to spend their time on stuff that matters. If users wanna use steam go ahead, but I think it's a disservice and waste of developer time to support.

Also many people who want steam don't actually know that Nexus and the Vault have 90% of what was on IGN all available for free with fast download speeds and near 100% uptime.

I mean there's really no strong argument for steam other than.. "I want it". Shouldn't be too controversial to discuss.

losludvig

Having the client you launch the game from be the same place you get your mods, and keep them automagically updated is not a strong argument?
Don't get me wrong, I love the nexus but steam workshop is not without merit.

Trinital

losludvig said:

Having the client you launch the game from be the same place you get your mods, and keep them automagically updated is not a strong argument?
Don't get me wrong, I love the nexus but steam workshop is not without merit.

Sorry I just don't think it's important compared to other things.
NWN1 isn't skyrim.. You don't "mod" the game in the same way. You will rarely ever get or need updates to hak packs or downloaded module files.

You won't sit down and download 50 "Mods" that need to be updated. It's just not the same context or work flow. It's just not.. very useful.

Maybe For PW's it's a different story but an autodownloader would auto push updates to your client when you connect. Steam would be slower / more annoying than the client handling it.

TarotRedhand

@losludvig Have you visited the vault? Just double checked and there are over 3100 modules on there. That number continues to grow. That number doesn't include pre-fabricated areas that you can drop into your own module as you build it.

@Trinital my impression is that it is more like 95%-98% but cest la vie.

TR

Hulmurg

The problem with Steam Workshop is that non-steam users can't really download mods from it. Which I've found a little infuriating in other games, personally. I certainly understand its appeal, but it also kind of segregates the userbase based on mods.

TarotRedhand

Here's a little thought for all those who've got the headstart. Go to the vault and download a module. Put it in your modules folder and play it. You don't have to register on the site to do so. Choose one that has got some stars against it and one that doesn't need any other files. That way if something doesn't work you can report it as a bug and you will be helping Beamdog get their backwards compatibility working 100%.

TR

IndyWendieGo

Hulmurg said:

The problem with Steam Workshop is that non-steam users can't really download mods from it. Which I've found a little infuriating in other games, personally. I certainly understand its appeal, but it also kind of segregates the userbase based on mods.

This is the only problem I see with it, however I certainly won't mind having options where people get their stuff. In my experience with Skyrim's Workshop vs NexusMods, I always went to NexusMods- though I liked looking at the workshop mods as well. I can understand the argument both for and against it, and both are valid in their own regards.

Honestly, I would want more intergration with Steam in terms of using that as a buddy's list and use that as a way for people to join servers with friends instead of hak/module intergrations, but that's just me.

losludvig

TarotRedhand said:

@losludvig Have you visited the vault? Just double checked and there are over 3100 modules on there. That number continues to grow. That number doesn't include pre-fabricated areas that you can drop into your own module as you build it.

TR

I have indeed.
I use different methods for modding different games - I wouldn't dream of going through workshop for my skyrim setup but on the other hand I've never used anything but workshop for torchlight 2.
I would think that having workshop support would help give visibility to custom nwn content.
I get that most content currently in the vault will likely be the final version and no further patches will ever arrive, but I would hope that some new stuff will arrive too.
It is also very convenient that steam auto downloads your mods when you re-install the game

Trinital

IndyWendieGo said:

Hulmurg said:

The problem with Steam Workshop is that non-steam users can't really download mods from it. Which I've found a little infuriating in other games, personally. I certainly understand its appeal, but it also kind of segregates the userbase based on mods.

This is the only problem I see with it, however I certainly won't mind having options where people get their stuff. In my experience with Skyrim's Workshop vs NexusMods, I always went to NexusMods- though I liked looking at the workshop mods as well. I can understand the argument both for and against it, and both are valid in their own regards.

Honestly, I would want more intergration with Steam in terms of using that as a buddy's list and use that as a way for people to join servers with friends instead of hak/module intergrations, but that's just me.

If Steam took zero developer time away from the game and we could just get it magically for free.
Then fine. Go ahead and add it, I just won't use it or support it.

My gripe is actively pulling devs away from really important features to support something that isn't really needed or important and only helps Steam as a company, to the detriment of everyone else using GOG or Beamdog platforms.


EDIT:
I do agree that the "Steam Buddy System" is a much better utilization of that platform though and probably much easier to implement since you can already launch NWN and autojoin a PW using the command line, so now you just need to feed that into Steams API.

I still think it's low priority though. ^^;;

IndyWendieGo

Trinital said:

IndyWendieGo said:

Hulmurg said:

The problem with Steam Workshop is that non-steam users can't really download mods from it. Which I've found a little infuriating in other games, personally. I certainly understand its appeal, but it also kind of segregates the userbase based on mods.

This is the only problem I see with it, however I certainly won't mind having options where people get their stuff. In my experience with Skyrim's Workshop vs NexusMods, I always went to NexusMods- though I liked looking at the workshop mods as well. I can understand the argument both for and against it, and both are valid in their own regards.

Honestly, I would want more intergration with Steam in terms of using that as a buddy's list and use that as a way for people to join servers with friends instead of hak/module intergrations, but that's just me.

If Steam took zero developer time away from the game and we could just get it magically for free.
Then fine. Go ahead and add it, I just won't use it or support it.

My gripe is actively pulling devs away from really important features to support something that isn't really needed or important and only helps Steam as a company, to the detriment of everyone else using GOG or Beamdog platforms.


EDIT:
I do agree that the "Steam Buddy System" is a much better utilization of that platform though and probably much easier to implement since you can already launch NWN and autojoin a PW using the command line, so now you just need to feed that into Steams API.

I still think it's low priority though. ^^;;

I think about it this way; the more options for those online and finding each other, the better. The more options in general for ease of accessibility and visibility, the better multiplayer populations will be. Though for dev time, with the commitment they've already conveyed on it- it's down the long road. However options like that aren't necessarily a bad thing. I get some people don't like Steam. But there are those who do and I think it's fair to consider those people as well.

I get what you're saying though. :P

TarotRedhand

This isn't about liking or not liking steam. This is about the fragmentation of the user community. Also I checked and currently there are zero nwn items (aside from the game obviously) to download currently. On the vault there are quite literally thousands. As for new stuff just look at the front page of the vault (link in first post of this thread). Around 90% of what you see there is all about new content. This repository is user funded via patreon. It's free to use and friendly (not something you see in some of the groups on steam). You can download whatever you like for free and without even having to register. And it has been hard fought for when NwN support was being dropped by everyone including steam.

TR

IndyWendieGo

TarotRedhand said:

This isn't about liking or not liking steam. This is about the fragmentation of the user community. Also I checked and currently there are zero nwn items (aside from the game obviously) to download currently. On the vault there are quite literally thousands. As for new stuff just look at the front page of the vault (link in first post of this thread). Around 90% of what you see there is all about new content. This repository is user funded via patreon. It's free to use and friendly (not something you see in some of the groups on steam). You can download whatever you like for free and without even having to register. And it has been hard fought for when NwN support was being dropped by everyone including steam.

TR

That's the thing though, with the trolls on Steam? The same can be said about this very community. I've seen it through and through. It's much more universal than you're describing it to be. I remember the same things happening in the IGN Vault. I've seen it in comment sections on the new Vault. Heck, I've seen it on this very forum. Every community has that unfriendly side.

As for Steam Workshop, it's a means of accessibility. If someone wants to hide their content behind the Steam wall, that's their problem- because the majority of people will still use the Vault. That's the way it's worked on every game I've played on Steam that's had a workshop. We went to the Nexus. Steam has the ability to bring in new players. With that integration, ease of access, they'd be stupid not to do it at this point if they're modernizing it.

So again, I get the frustration- I'd just rather have new players who can get into the game easier, especially since multiplayer is one of their selling points. We can agree to disagree.

TarotRedhand

If it had been possible I would have been hung, drawn and quartered for making criticisms on the old nwn bioware com (deliberately left out dots so the forum doesn't try to make a link) forums for daring to criticise NwNCQ and its then shortcomings.

I'm not against new players. We sure do need them. The frustration came when people were asking if steam workshops would be used. Letting them know about the vault and to a lesser extent the nexus, was the original intent of this thread. Somehow...

TR

Mordaedil

I'd certainly like a way to make sure the haks I use for various PWs to be continuously updated, but it really comes down to how active of a community NWN:EE can foster for modding.

I think expecting Skyrim level of attention to be a tough sell.