Need help deciding folks. Really love grand mastery with a fighter, but the paladin kits are enticing. Just looking for opinions on which people prefer.
Well, Paladins and Rangers are really just another variety of Fighter but you substitute special powers and abilities for the fighter bonuses to combat. If you usually play Fighter, I'd recommend trying Paladin out just for a change of pace. The Paladin Kits are all really good.
I'd probably go with a Pally just because it would feel more interesting to me than a plain Fighter. If you go with Fighter did you have any particular weapons specialization in mind?
I cannot imagine not going Ranger/Cleric instead of Paladin for any reason ever, but if you must play single class'd, Fighter's are generally mechanically superior.
I'd go with Fighter if you plan to dual/multi class, but if you're planning pure class they're kind of boring. Paladin would be more interesting than a pure class Fighter. I'm not saying necessarily better, just more interesting.
I'm kind of a purist with characters, so naturally, I don't multiclass often. For the protagonist, it seems natural that they would lead the charge into battle so I tend to play warriors of some kind (though I've played and enjoyed damn near every character). I just want a damage dealing monster basically, so I may go two handed sword and bow to pick off the hobgoblins that run.
Ranger, fighter, and paladin all fit the role I'm looking for, but what would be the reasoning behind choosing one over the other. Basically, do ranger or paladin abilities compensate for not having a fighters grand mastery??
Ranger, fighter, and paladin all fit the role I'm looking for, but what would be the reasoning behind choosing one over the other. Basically, do ranger or paladin abilities compensate for not having a fighters grand mastery??
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yeeeeeessssss.
Okay but seriously. First and foremost, you won't be able to get Grand Mastery in BG:EE. Experience cap isn't raising, best you can do is High Mastery ****.
If you look at Paladin, they get tons of Protection From Evil. That spell gives you immunity to some effects that usually own fighters, and a flat -2 AC bonus. Pretty sweet having loads of that spell. Lay On Hands is nice as well. And this isn't even looking at the other kits. Cavalier gets plenty of Remove Fear, and Inquisitor toss those out for True Sight and Dispel Magic (which are awesome).
Meanwhile you have Ranger. Rangers get Stealth, and the proper +4 attack bonus for attacking from stealth. Pretty slick. Charm Animal has its uses, and best of all if you're so obsessed with weapon pips it's worth mentioning that Rangers start out with two pips ** in Two Weapon Style. Can't be overlooked.
Fighters, while undoubtedly effective of course, are quite boring. These abilities the Ranger and Paladin get are not only more exciting, but also effective.
A paladin's turn undead ability is really handy when you're fighting undead, but slightly less useful when fighting off a horde of gibberlings. A ranger's favored enemy bonus is killer against the favored enemy, but useless against everything else.
The Archer kit for the ranger, however, is just about the best ranged weapon user you can create, because you do get the grand mastery, as well as a number of other bonuses that make you the best at what you do.
For paladins, it tends to be all about the immunities. If you choose a kit that grants you immunity to charm, for instance, you'll never have to worry about killing your friends.
Fighters are always as good as they look. Your THAC0 will be the same when fighting a skeleton as when fighting a dragon, and you'll always deal the same damage to both. You'll be just a little better than a ranger or paladin when fighting normal enemies, but you'll never have an enemy that you're especially good at killing, which is where the ranger and paladin shine.
Me personally? I tend to go with either the Kensai, the Archer, or the Inquisitor. That Dispel Magic ability is always helpful.
That's it! Okay so with a fighter I could get weapon mastery (++++) and with a paladin you get an extra +2 to saving throws, and a couple other benefits based on kit. Really cannot decide what I want to play!
Well, there are two other advantages to fighter that I don't believe have been mentioned: they have lower exp thresholds (same cap though), and you can play as any race. If you're a dwarf fighter with good con, then your shorty saves will exceed the paladin save bonuses. Half-orcs can also bypass the 18/XX strength and go straight to 19, which saves a bit of trouble.
Human fighters can also dual class while paladins cannot, but it doesn't really sound like you're interested in that.
LOL! I think it has to do with what you want the character to be.
1 Vanquisher of evil wherever it lies - Paladin 2 Outdoors-based light warrior (it's how I see them) - Ranger 3 Combat specialist in all situations - Fighter
It all comes down to personal preference really. For pure damage output go Kensai or Archer, depending whether you want to be melee or primarily ranged. For the best tanking, you probably want to go with a dwarf or half-orc berserker. If you want some healing abilities, go with a Cavalier, or if you want to kill mages take an Inquisitor.
If you plan on playing the same character into BG2, I'd go with an Inquisitor. Fighters plateau at around level 10, but the Inquisitor's Dispel will allow you to tear through high-level mages like tissue paper.
Me personally? I tend to go with either the Kensai, the Archer, or the Inquisitor. That Dispel Magic ability is always helpful.
Inquisitor is better at mage slaying than Wizard Slayer. The sad truth.
Some of the threads here over the last couple of months definitely piqued my interest in trying a Wizard Slayer, though. Never played one. This business of getting 10 hits in on the target and then the enemy wizard's spells fail sounds like it could be pretty badass. I just wonder around what level and with which weapons profs/weapons that starts to become a regular occurrence. (Sorry, I don't mean to start a tangent here, because there's several threads on this subject by now. Still, it intrigues me.)
Ranger, fighter, and paladin all fit the role I'm looking for, but what would be the reasoning behind choosing one over the other. Basically, do ranger or paladin abilities compensate for not having a fighters grand mastery??
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yeeeeeessssss.
Okay but seriously. First and foremost, you won't be able to get Grand Mastery in BG:EE. Experience cap isn't raising, best you can do is High Mastery ****.
If you look at Paladin, they get tons of Protection From Evil. That spell gives you immunity to some effects that usually own fighters, and a flat -2 AC bonus. Pretty sweet having loads of that spell. Lay On Hands is nice as well. And this isn't even looking at the other kits. Cavalier gets plenty of Remove Fear, and Inquisitor toss those out for True Sight and Dispel Magic (which are awesome).
Meanwhile you have Ranger. Rangers get Stealth, and the proper +4 attack bonus for attacking from stealth. Pretty slick. Charm Animal has its uses, and best of all if you're so obsessed with weapon pips it's worth mentioning that Rangers start out with two pips ** in Two Weapon Style. Can't be overlooked.
Fighters, while undoubtedly effective of course, are quite boring. These abilities the Ranger and Paladin get are not only more exciting, but also effective.
Sorry for the long quote, but Quartz has spoken the complete truth.
You can only see a difference between Paladin and Warrior until late game (when there is really a gap between XP threshold - at the beginning, it is only 500 xp /1000xp and so on), and IF you specialize further in a weapon specialization (with ****).
Otherwise, you miss many defense and healing spells, at the beginning (and during the whole BG1 in fact), when they are the most valuable assets to prevent your demise (and your party's).
Well, if you go with a Half-Orc Berserker, you can expect to : 1 - 19 strength 2 - great HP 3 - INSANE THAC0, maybe rivaled only by an archer in the first section of the trilogy.
While paladin immunities are great... Berserker's rage is just pure awesome!
On the subject of kits I wouldn't underestimate the other paladin classes, fear and hold/paralyze abilities are about as common in BG1 as mages who actually use annoying spell protections. Stalker and beastmaster badly need to be rebalanced for BG1. The wizard slayer is a solid kit (albeit buggy without the fixpack). The arcane failure penalty works as long as he rolls a hit and doesn't get the "weapon has no effect" message - it does go through Stoneskin/Mirror Image.
In BG2 the other paladin kits can cast spells. Inquisitors may be powerful magekillers, but the distinction of being able to wield Carsomyr +5 (or +6, for that matter) while having 25 strength, 25 dexterity and 25 constitution via a high enough level Draw Upon Holy Might belongs to non-Inquisitors alone. As you can imagine, their Whirlwinds/Greater Whirlwinds are pretty brutal.
The only useless class is the one that is played improperly. Each class can be fun depending on your playstyle and preferences. If you played fighters before, moving to a fighter hybrid is a good step if you wanna try something different but stay within your comfort zone.
Playing Paladin also opens up some options you aren't likely to see otherwise. Like using the Holy Sword. There's only one recruitable paladin in BG2. If you aren't playing a paladin and you don't recruit Keldorn, it's just vendor trash. There are some other things, the sword is just one example among a few.
You can beat the game with any character and party you want. It's very forgiving on the whole. If you find you're not having fun just quit and roll up a new guy. It's not like you're at a gaming table and everyone is up a creek without a paddle if the cleric decides he wants to roll up a bard or a rogue or something.
Well, if you go with a Half-Orc Berserker, you can expect to : 1 - 19 strength 2 - great HP 3 - INSANE THAC0, maybe rivaled only by an archer in the first section of the trilogy.
While paladin immunities are great... Berserker's rage is just pure awesome!
You also forgot the natural regeneration once you've picked up the CON tome, plus having 20 STR.
Comments
Long answer: Yeeeeeessssss.
Okay but seriously. First and foremost, you won't be able to get Grand Mastery in BG:EE. Experience cap isn't raising, best you can do is High Mastery ****.
If you look at Paladin, they get tons of Protection From Evil. That spell gives you immunity to some effects that usually own fighters, and a flat -2 AC bonus. Pretty sweet having loads of that spell. Lay On Hands is nice as well. And this isn't even looking at the other kits. Cavalier gets plenty of Remove Fear, and Inquisitor toss those out for True Sight and Dispel Magic (which are awesome).
Meanwhile you have Ranger. Rangers get Stealth, and the proper +4 attack bonus for attacking from stealth. Pretty slick. Charm Animal has its uses, and best of all if you're so obsessed with weapon pips it's worth mentioning that Rangers start out with two pips ** in Two Weapon Style. Can't be overlooked.
Fighters, while undoubtedly effective of course, are quite boring. These abilities the Ranger and Paladin get are not only more exciting, but also effective.
A paladin's turn undead ability is really handy when you're fighting undead, but slightly less useful when fighting off a horde of gibberlings. A ranger's favored enemy bonus is killer against the favored enemy, but useless against everything else.
The Archer kit for the ranger, however, is just about the best ranged weapon user you can create, because you do get the grand mastery, as well as a number of other bonuses that make you the best at what you do.
For paladins, it tends to be all about the immunities. If you choose a kit that grants you immunity to charm, for instance, you'll never have to worry about killing your friends.
Fighters are always as good as they look. Your THAC0 will be the same when fighting a skeleton as when fighting a dragon, and you'll always deal the same damage to both. You'll be just a little better than a ranger or paladin when fighting normal enemies, but you'll never have an enemy that you're especially good at killing, which is where the ranger and paladin shine.
Me personally? I tend to go with either the Kensai, the Archer, or the Inquisitor. That Dispel Magic ability is always helpful.
Human fighters can also dual class while paladins cannot, but it doesn't really sound like you're interested in that.
1 Vanquisher of evil wherever it lies - Paladin
2 Outdoors-based light warrior (it's how I see them) - Ranger
3 Combat specialist in all situations - Fighter
Sorry for the long quote, but Quartz has spoken the complete truth.
You can only see a difference between Paladin and Warrior until late game (when there is really a gap between XP threshold - at the beginning, it is only 500 xp /1000xp and so on), and IF you specialize further in a weapon specialization (with ****).
Otherwise, you miss many defense and healing spells, at the beginning (and during the whole BG1 in fact), when they are the most valuable assets to prevent your demise (and your party's).
1 - 19 strength
2 - great HP
3 - INSANE THAC0, maybe rivaled only by an archer in the first section of the trilogy.
While paladin immunities are great... Berserker's rage is just pure awesome!
In BG2 the other paladin kits can cast spells. Inquisitors may be powerful magekillers, but the distinction of being able to wield Carsomyr +5 (or +6, for that matter) while having 25 strength, 25 dexterity and 25 constitution via a high enough level Draw Upon Holy Might belongs to non-Inquisitors alone. As you can imagine, their Whirlwinds/Greater Whirlwinds are pretty brutal.
Playing Paladin also opens up some options you aren't likely to see otherwise. Like using the Holy Sword. There's only one recruitable paladin in BG2. If you aren't playing a paladin and you don't recruit Keldorn, it's just vendor trash. There are some other things, the sword is just one example among a few.
You can beat the game with any character and party you want. It's very forgiving on the whole. If you find you're not having fun just quit and roll up a new guy. It's not like you're at a gaming table and everyone is up a creek without a paddle if the cleric decides he wants to roll up a bard or a rogue or something.