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Missile Weapons (bows and crossbows), rate of fire and number of attacks per round

SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 144
in Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition
Greetings.

How to count number of attacks per round in comparison of bows (short and long) and crossbows (light and heavy)?
What would be best for my characters (kits "Archer") to specialize in?

ps For example, between Finest Light/Heavy Crossbows and Long Bows +2 Defenders?
OR between Heavy Crossbow of Speed +4, Bren Muller's Crossbow and Messenger of Sseth?

pss Maybe it's even worth to create an "Archer" with an axe-specialization and give him Throwing axe +2 (with returning capabilities)?

Comments

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    i still prefer bows over crossbows, since bows come with more attacks per round ( messenger of sseth for example) usually how the math goes: more attacks per round still equals more damage per round, than less attacks per round dealing more damage

    plus there are way more different arrow types than bolts in IWD i seem to find

    and also, if you want to make an "archer" using that throwing axe +2, make a kensai instead, they can use that throwing axe and they can get grand mastery in it dealing some serious damage ( especially if they are a half-orc with 19 STR )
  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 144
    sarevok57 said:

    i still prefer bows over crossbows, since bows come with more attacks per round ( messenger of sseth for example) usually how the math goes: more attacks per round still equals more damage per round, than less attacks per round dealing more damage

    plus there are way more different arrow types than bolts in IWD i seem to find

    and also, if you want to make an "archer" using that throwing axe +2, make a kensai instead, they can use that throwing axe and they can get grand mastery in it dealing some serious damage ( especially if they are a half-orc with 19 STR )

    Thank You!

    But how to count those attacks/shots per round?

    For example, if we have human fighter 7lvl with 18 in Dex, wich gives us 1,5 attacks per round (for lvl), 14 THACO (for lvl) and + 2 to hit with ranged weapons (for 18 in Dex).
    And we give our fighter, for example, finest heavy crossbow (+4 THACO bonus and +2 to damage) and Longbow +2 Defender (+3 THACO bonus and +2 to damage).
    (higher crossbow THACO bonus can be leveled by race "elf", but lets take "human" as example)

    So, how to count exact number of attacks/shots per round with these conditions?
  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 144
    ps From manual for "Kensai" kit:
    "May not use ranged weapons (both missile and thrown)"

    Realy liked the idea, but seems - it's not possible here.
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 951
    in iwd, kensai cant use any throwing weapons, unlike bg games.
  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 144
    The question of the Year:
    "Archer"-elf (19 Dex, 2 ranks in axes, and +1 to-hit and damage for each three levels)
    or
    Pure Fighter (maybe Wizard Slayer) half-orc with grand-mastery in axes
    with Thrown Axe +2
    ??
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 951
    SorrowSeer said:

    The question of the Year:
    "Archer"-elf (19 Dex, 2 ranks in axes, and +1 to-hit and damage for each three levels)
    or
    Pure Fighter (maybe Wizard Slayer) half-orc with grand-mastery in axes
    with Thrown Axe +2
    ??

    The throwing axe use strength to hit and dmg bonuses as i know. So if you use an elven archer with 18/00 strength and spec in axes she gain 4 thaco and 8 dmg with 1,5 apr in level one. in level 10 she has 7 thaco and 11 dmg. By level 20, she has 2,5 apr and 10 thaco and 14 dmg.

    The half-orc fighter, with 19 strength has 4 thaco and 9 dmg, with 1,5 apr at lvl 1 if spec in axes. By level 9 with grandmastery she has 6 thaco and 12 dmg with 2,5 apr. At lvl 13 she gain the last 0,5 apr, and has 3 apr at a.

    In thaco comparison the archer will be more accurate and more dmg by late game,but the 0,5 apr is strong point of the orc fighter.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    SorrowSeer said:

    ps From manual for "Kensai" kit:
    "May not use ranged weapons (both missile and thrown)"

    Realy liked the idea, but seems - it's not possible here.

    even though it says that, the kensai can still use the throwing axe +2 because you can still use it in melee, i've made many a build where i had a level 9 kensai dual wield into a wizard, just so it can use the throwing axe +2
  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 144
    sarevok57 said:

    SorrowSeer said:

    ps From manual for "Kensai" kit:
    "May not use ranged weapons (both missile and thrown)"

    Realy liked the idea, but seems - it's not possible here.

    even though it says that, the kensai can still use the throwing axe +2 because you can still use it in melee, i've made many a build where i had a level 9 kensai dual wield into a wizard, just so it can use the throwing axe +2
    Only in melee?
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    SorrowSeer said:

    sarevok57 said:

    SorrowSeer said:

    ps From manual for "Kensai" kit:
    "May not use ranged weapons (both missile and thrown)"

    Realy liked the idea, but seems - it's not possible here.

    even though it says that, the kensai can still use the throwing axe +2 because you can still use it in melee, i've made many a build where i had a level 9 kensai dual wield into a wizard, just so it can use the throwing axe +2
    Only in melee?
    melee or ranged
  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 144
    sarevok57 said:

    SorrowSeer said:

    sarevok57 said:

    SorrowSeer said:

    ps From manual for "Kensai" kit:
    "May not use ranged weapons (both missile and thrown)"

    Realy liked the idea, but seems - it's not possible here.

    even though it says that, the kensai can still use the throwing axe +2 because you can still use it in melee, i've made many a build where i had a level 9 kensai dual wield into a wizard, just so it can use the throwing axe +2
    Only in melee?
    melee or ranged
    That's uncommon, I think.
    Created kensai (1lvl, begining of the game), but he can't even equip throwing axes.

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    SorrowSeer said:

    sarevok57 said:

    SorrowSeer said:

    sarevok57 said:

    SorrowSeer said:

    ps From manual for "Kensai" kit:
    "May not use ranged weapons (both missile and thrown)"

    Realy liked the idea, but seems - it's not possible here.

    even though it says that, the kensai can still use the throwing axe +2 because you can still use it in melee, i've made many a build where i had a level 9 kensai dual wield into a wizard, just so it can use the throwing axe +2
    Only in melee?
    melee or ranged
    That's uncommon, I think.
    Created kensai (1lvl, begining of the game), but he can't even equip throwing axes.

    thats because throwing axes are consider missile weapons when the throwing axe +2 is consider a melee weapon, although if you are playing the 2.5 beta, then perhaps they may have "fixed" that, summon in the throwing axe +2 with the console and see if your kensai can use it
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    A Kensai can't equip a Throwing Axe +2 in IWD:EE v1.4. I just checked.
  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 144
    Danacm
    sarevok57
    joluv

    I sincerely thank you!

    Since "Archer" can have only one rank in axes (took me by surprise)
    maybe somebody will help to count total numbers of THACO and attacks/shots per round for, for example,
    elf-"archer" (19 dex, +1 to-hit for bows as race bonus) with 5 ranks in bows and crossbows and with:
    - Longbow +2 Defender.
    - Messenger of Seth.
    - Heavy crossbow of Speed +2.
    - Repeating Heavy Crossbow.
    - Reinforced Heavy Crossbow.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    At what level?
  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 144
    joluv said:

    At what level?

    Let's say 9lvl (ninth).
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Before weapon-specific bonuses, your THAC0 and APR will both be 3. With those bonuses:
    - Longbow +2 Defender: THAC0 0, APR 4
    - Messenger of Sseth: THAC0 1, APR 5
    - Heavy Crossbow of Speed: THAC0 -1, APR 4
    - Repeating Heavy Crossbow: THAC0 -2, APR 5
    - Reinforced Heavy Crossbow: THAC0 -1, APR 4.
  • SorrowSeerSorrowSeer Member Posts: 144
    joluv said:

    Before weapon-specific bonuses, your THAC0 and APR will both be 3. With those bonuses:
    - Longbow +2 Defender: THAC0 0, APR 4
    - Messenger of Sseth: THAC0 1, APR 5
    - Heavy Crossbow of Speed: THAC0 -1, APR 4
    - Repeating Heavy Crossbow: THAC0 -2, APR 5
    - Reinforced Heavy Crossbow: THAC0 -1, APR 4.

    Many thanks!!

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