Can we bank on CEP resources in NWN:EE?

omedon666

Pretty much asked in the title, but yeah, we're pretty excited in seeing cloaks in the trailer images we've seen for NWN:EE, and hoping that means that stuff like the CEP models and resources will be included with the game. The monsters, "race changing" headgear and other elements are a big part of our vision for our PW reboot.

The whole "collaborating with the community" angle made us think/hope that the CEP folks would be in on this. Is this the case?

MadHatter

Cloaks aren't just part of CEP... how long have you been out of NWN?

Please for the love of everything good and holy do not include CEP as base resources. This isn't 2006 anymore. CEP isn't the end all be all of custom content and I'd love to not have it on my hard drive permanently.

A *much* better solution would be the hak/tlk autodownload solution on Trello where you get prompted to download those files if you need them.

Disclaimer: in the past I have happily (and optionally) downloaded CEP to play certain modules or PWs.

omedon666

I was told this was a welcoming community. Apparently not. Guess I'll wait for launch and see.

MadHatter

I apologize if I gave offense.

Some of us just don't want multiple GBs of bloat on our hard drive and in our base resources when it should remain an optional hak.

omedon666

I guess I just always saw the CEP as a good catch-all of "we will only utilize this one huge HAK as opposed to a gjillion of them," and so it was always my singular go-to in my 'keep it simple" approach to our PW.

MadHatter

I can see that and that's one reason why CEP is fairly popular. Sounds like a good solution for your PW.

TheAmethystDragon

omedon666 said:

I guess I just always saw the CEP as a good catch-all of "we will only utilize this one huge HAK as opposed to a gjillion of them," and so it was always my singular go-to in my 'keep it simple" approach to our PW.

The CEP is a large and varied resource, but there are a few people that just don't like it, some that are dissatisfied that it still contains content from the early days of NWN, some that didn't like how an earlier CEP team brought in content without specific permission, some people that would rather use other hak packages (such as Project Q), and a bunch of other people (including myself) with their own reasons for wanting to keep the multiple hundreds of MB of stuff (multiple GB decompressed) as an optional download.

Then there are legal considerations of taking community-made content and including it in a paid product when many of the creators of said content may no longer be available to work with.

Still, I love options, and I definitely use the CEP (along with a bunch of other haks) for my own PW.

Proleric

NWN is unusual because it is a very strong win-win between the commercial developers and hobbyists who make content for fun.

NWN EE is a commercial offering, but CEP is a fan-made collection of content made by innumerable other fans. Acquiring CEP would not only be a legal minefield of absurd complexity - it would also go against the ethos of the hobby, which is greatly valued by many of those who created (and continue to create) custom content.

Fortunately, this is not a problem, because NWN EE already works with CEP and all the other custom content.

omedon666

I guess then the answer to my question is: "Yes, you can bank on the CEP... it's still at the Vault!"

TarotRedhand

Not only that but there will, I believe, be a new incremental version sometime in the new year.

TR

TarotRedhand

I see the new version (2.63) is now out.

TR

voidofopinion

Proleric said:

NWN EE is a commercial offering, but CEP is a fan-made collection of content made by innumerable other fans. Acquiring CEP would not only be a legal minefield of absurd complexity - it would also go against the ethos of the hobby, which is greatly valued by many of those who created (and continue to create) custom content.

Not to mention @Barry_1066 has been threatening to sue random people for copyright violation which is simultaneously ironic (considering some of CEP's stolen assets) and not really the most community friendly of actions.

And like you said, the sale/licencing of CEP would be a logistic nightmare considering how many people contributed to CEP as a community resource and not a a commercial venture.

- Jamie

Barry_1066

TheAmethystDragon said:

omedon666 said:

I guess I just always saw the CEP as a good catch-all of "we will only utilize this one huge HAK as opposed to a gjillion of them," and so it was always my singular go-to in my 'keep it simple" approach to our PW.

The CEP is a large and varied resource, but there are a few people that just don't like it, some that are dissatisfied that it still contains content from the early days of NWN, some that didn't like how an earlier CEP team brought in content without specific permission, some people that would rather use other hak packages (such as Project Q), and a bunch of other people (including myself) with their own reasons for wanting to keep the multiple hundreds of MB of stuff (multiple GB decompressed) as an optional download.

Then there are legal considerations of taking community-made content and including it in a paid product when many of the creators of said content may no longer be available to work with.

Still, I love options, and I definitely use the CEP (along with a bunch of other haks) for my own PW.

It should be clarified - The cep team worked on and received or HAD permissions to all materials - there was a time that the CEP came under attack - actually the CEP had been under attack before first publication by some factions.

The remark - "some that didn't like how an earlier CEP team brought in content without specific permission" should read - there are those who allege that the earlier CEP team brought in content withour specific permission. Funny how trolling from the past persists as institutional fact now - it is not fact. There were groups of factions who wanted to bring down CEP and this was one of their tools - but it is just that - a troll tool, not a fact.

CEP MUST be fully backward compatible - the ONLY exception is when Bioware made changes to NWN that required CEP to make some changes. The biggest changes I had to deal with were for 1.69 - those were the last changes necessary to accommodate changes Bioware made - there is nothing after 1.69 that breaks the CEP RULE #1 Must be backward compatible - FULLY backward comparable.

This rule - #1 rule - is why there is old content that is not the best that came along later. If the CEP were to change - it would break backward compatibility and this, The CEP Team - would not ever do. This is the ONLY reason I have challenged the newer than 2.4 versions - as they are NOT following the CEP #1 prime directive - they are NOT fully backward compatible and until they are - they are NOT CEP since they violate prime directive CEP rule #1 - Fully Backward compatible.

I have offered proof of this to TAD.

Thank you

Mecheon

Oh, hey Barry! You're back! How you been?

(Incidentally I, as the weirdo who ended up fixing a few CEP bugs that went on a while without being fixed and actually finally retextured that bloody CCP manta ray that no one ever touched, would sorta be interested to hear the other incompatibility stuff cause I haven't noticed anything going on from my end)

(Said manta ray can be found here, albeit remapped because the original mapping was, well, from the bat)