Need help to choose Sorcerer spells
Rik_Kirtaniya
Member Posts: 1,742
I'm currently in the middle of my first playthrough of IWD, in Upper Dorn's Deep, and by now, I've realized that combat in this game differs quite significantly from BG2 (in which I'm a fairly good sorcerer). This one is more combat-heavy, has lesser mages and thus combat and spell protections, and a LOT of undead (who are immune to cold damage and stinking cloud besides other things). There are also plenty of opportunities for stealth since nobody (I've met yet) casts True Sight or other divination spells.
Now to my question. With all these differences, my BG2 sorcerer Spell book (that is, my spell selections) is not at all optimized for this game. Thus I'd ask for some help in selecting spells for my sorcerer.
Here is what I've selected till now. (I don't remember the order though. Also, I would change them on my second playthrough, based on the suggestions I'd receive.)
Level 1:
I must mention that I'm playing with a party which has got a mage in it for accessory spells, and I'm playing on Normal difficulty.
I'll be glad if you share your experiences, wisdom and ideas with me.
Now to my question. With all these differences, my BG2 sorcerer Spell book (that is, my spell selections) is not at all optimized for this game. Thus I'd ask for some help in selecting spells for my sorcerer.
Here is what I've selected till now. (I don't remember the order though. Also, I would change them on my second playthrough, based on the suggestions I'd receive.)
Level 1:
- Sleep (This was great in BG, but I was disappointed by it when I saw the majority being undead)
- Magic Missile (an obvious choice)
- Shield (It blocks magic missiles and that other level 4 force missiles spell)
- Chromatic orb (Too bad that a save negates it totally)
- Identify (Yes, I want it)
- Melf's Acid Arrow (Only decent damage spell of this level, as it seems)
- Invisibility (scouting purposes and with Sunfire)
- Snilloc's Snowball Storm (poor damage and useless against undead. Also I didn't see any fire using enemies till now)
- Horror (I shouldn't have taken this one)
- Mirror Image (Great, just great. Blur is good but I got it from that sash already.)
- Skull Trap (Good damage. Doesn't seem to trigger sometimes though.)
- Haste (Universally useful)
- Slow (Didn't know what else to take)
- Vitriolic Sphere (The effective damage is on one target, since the splash damage is unfriendly and not much)
- Stoneskin (It gave me the courage to step amidst the mobs)
- Minor Globe of Invulnerability (After taking it, I noticed that there are just not that many sources of spell damage as I expected earlier.)
- Sunfire (I go invisible, put on stoneskin, and cast this repeatedly in midst of enemies. Better than cone of cold)
- Chaos (Now that I've taken it, I realize it's not that useful. Enemies by now seem to make a save most of the times.)
I must mention that I'm playing with a party which has got a mage in it for accessory spells, and I'm playing on Normal difficulty.
I'll be glad if you share your experiences, wisdom and ideas with me.
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Comments
Secondly your spell choices are solid: The only spells you *really* need are Web, Haste, Slow, Fireball anyways. So make sure to grab Web & Fireball as soon as you get the chance. For lvl 4 take the Emotion spells hope & courage I believe it was (they are good buffs with long durability). Take summons if you don't have another Mage or a Druid. They will be useful but a couple of them are enough.
Don't bother with any Breaching/Spellstrike etc spells whatsoever, they are utterly useless. Dimension Door can be fun. Cloudkill is a solid option to combo with Web & Fireball.
For lvl 1 I would've picked the same except for Sleep.
For lvl 2 I would've gone way differently but you got Melf's for the trolls and Mirror Image for protection, Web is key and Glitterdust can be really nice to mass blind enemies (since they're fighting-type heavy). Invisibility for the combo you mentioned can be nice but for scouting I use my Thief.
Lvl 3 is the powerlevel for wizards and the reason they aren't crap. Haste is the most op thing ever. Slow can be massive as well. Fireball does a crap ton of damage. Skull trap can be very good as well. Dispel Magic is overall a solid spell as well since it doesn't fail and removes all the buffs and protections, just be careful not to hit yourself. It would be op if there were more magic users but in the current state it's just good.
Lvl 4 I go Emotion Hope & Courage and Stoneskin. When I go Dragon Disciple instead of Sorcerer I usually skip Stoneskin. Other spells are Greater Malison & Confusion. After laying down Entangle/Web combo hit them with greater malison and then slow + glitterdust + fireball
Lvl 5 I go Chaos & Cloudkill (I always have a Druid in my team so I make a beautiful bouquet of flowers with Entangle, Web, Cloudkill & Spike growth and then add all my mass spells of glitterdust, slow etc.). Later I pick some sort of summons (any is good, really. pick something that sounds like you like it) and then shroud of flame because it's funny to look at as it spreads after web/entangle has them massed. I usually don't care about any spells above lvl 4 on mages, though.
Druids are great, and look a lot better than in the BG series, though I'm somewhat surprised they don't have dispel magic.
Animate Dead is not so good. It summons more skeletons, but they don't seem to grow powerful with higher levels. Moreover with the huge number of undead enemies, my cleric is almost always turning undead, and they get hostile when he does that.
Can't give you advice for lvl 6 I think.
7 has Spell Sequencer which is nice and some cool summons. Apart from that Delayed Blast Fireball, Mass Invisibility & Prismatic Spray can be solid choices.
For 8 probably stuff Simulacrum, Abi Dalzims, Spell Trigger. I'm not sure how useful the symbols are.
For 9 Time stop probably breaks the game. for the rest just go damage and crowd control.
Again, I'm not the best advisor of lvl 6+ especially with the EE added spells (I only played HoW in the EE once and didn't finish it and it also was heavily modded). What I just mentioned were only spells I suppose that would work well, I could be fairly wrong here.
Currently I'm playing with a Fighter/Thief, a Blackguard, a Ranger/Cleric, a Druid, and a Wild Mage, besides the Sorcerer. Also, are there any other decent level 1 spells to be taken in place of Identify, after all?
level 1:
Magic Missile - always have this spell, because of how awesome it is
Identify - because i don't use bards, and usually have fighter/mages with lore that isn't all that great, very nice to have
Find Familiar - usually i only have the one arcane caster, so the extra 6 HP is nice to help boost survivability a bit
Shield - sometimes i find that my arcane caster can be in quite a pickle at times with enemies that use range weapons, so this spell helps a bit
5th choice - pretty much spin the wheel at this point, realistically my top 3 were good enough and even shield at times is a bit of a stretch
level 2:
Melf's Acid Arrow - need to crank out that DPS plus it's a troll killer, plus the script i made makes it so my mage casts it automatically
Glitterdust - a great crowd control spell that effects anybody, has a chance to blind baddies in a pretty decent radius, quite top notch
Mirror Image - strictly for protection when protection is needed, but other than a couple of instances barely if ever use it
Blur - again, used at the same time as mirror image but hardly used much after
5th choice - again spin the wheel, my top 2 are good enough for me, sometimes though i will choose either ray of enfeeblement or deafness, but i always forget to use them
Level 3:
Haste - obvious given why that is a first pick, so no explanation is necessary
Slow - another great crowd control that affects anybody and also incredibly crippling to baddies to who get hit by it, very solid spell
Flame Arrow - a nice damaging spell that only hits one target and deals fire damage, so another troll killer, no need to micromanage your guys out of the way of fireballs, and still less suicidal than lightningbolt
Protection from Cold - every time it comes to time for my choice of a 4th pick for level 3 spells im always around the beginning of chapter 5, so just for convenience sake i choose this to make fighting those salamanders a lot less hectic
5th choice - i usually take Protection from fire especially because in ToTLM there is a very annoying jelly fight where only fire can hurt/kill them so this spell mixed with incendiary cloud is very effective
Level 4:
Emotion Hope - this is a great buff spell, that gives +2 to saves/damage/to hit, big duration absolutely awesome, a must have
Emotion Courage - again giving nice buff bonuses, stacks with hope, big duration, another great must have
Emotion Hopelessness - the emotion train continues, a very effective spell, although it doesnt effect undead this time, still very useful crowd control spell against everybody else, because a helpless enemy is a dead enemy
Stoneskin - great protection spell, mammoth duration obvious given why i choose it
5th choice - i usually take minor spell sequencer for my last choice, although i never use it, because i usually forget to, but when i do remember to use it, it's pretty helpful
Level 5:
Hold Monster - another great crowd control spell, again it doesn't work on undead, but it effects everybody else and comes with a stellar -2 penalty to their save, top notch
Contact Other Plane - although i only use this for one instance in HoW i still pick it for the lulz
Lower Magic Resistance - even though i never use this because i always forget i have this, but still a useful spell for those high magic resistance baddies
4th choice+ - again it's wheel spinning, although the elemental summoning spells are great, i find the level 3 animate dead spell to be more than adequate for my summoning needs, so sometimes i choose feeblemind, domination or chaos, or even spell shield and spell immunity despite the fact that i never use them
Level 6:
Improved Haste - absolute killer spell, this spell DOUBLES your attacks per round ( to a max of 10! ) and you don't become fatigued afterwards, absolutely awesome
Trollish Fortitude - unfortunately IWD doesn't have any good party friendly offensive spells, and again the choices for this level are slim, so i choose this ( although again i usually forget to use it ) because it's actually a pretty good rate that you regenerate at, so a nice protection for wizerds
True Seeing - really grasping at straws here, because so few enemies use invisibility type spells/abilities but still nice to have when you need to use it
4th choice+ - again, there really isn't all that much that i find that useful for IWD from the level 6 list ( unlike SoA ) so usually i will choose protection from magical weapons next and then for choice 5, pretty much close my eyes, spin in a circle and point for the last choice
Level 7:
Mass Invisibility - a great party buff spell, since NO enemy uses true seeing or detect invisibility, gives enemies a -4 penalty to hit you and gives you a +4 bonus to saves, absolutely awesome
Power Word Stun - not as great if using HoF mode, but still pretty top notch none the less, plus it's really the only offensive spell that doesnt hurt party members
Limited Wish - strictly used for so i can get the full plate +2 and the extra XP or get richer requests, the lulz indeed
Spell Sequencer - although i never use it, still a very useful spell to have if i remember to use it
Seven Eyes - a very neat protection spell, although again, i never use it, but once again, useful if remembered
Level 8:
Symbol Stun - an amazing crowd control spell, comes with a killer penalty to the saves, and the spell says it's party friendly, very VERY good spell
Bigby's Clenched Fist - unfortunately ADHW is not party friendly in IWD so the next best choice when it comes to offensive spells is this one, although i do see baddies getting stuck by it ( even undead ) so not too shabby
Incendiary Cloud - if i have protection from fire, then i will choose this, this spell mixed with protection from fire is an absolute monster, plus there are a few enemies in IWD where fire is absolutely needed or useful when killing baddies
Protection From Energy - although i usually forget to use this, pretty decent protection spell all around
Spell Trigger - again, i never use it, but still very useful to have if i remember to use it
Level 9:
Bigby's Crushing Hand - again the only level 9 spell that is party friendly, does some okay damage, and every once in a while will hold a baddie in place, not bad
Chain Contingency - although i barely if ever use it, a very top notch spell when i do
Absolute Immunity - a great "escape" type spell if you find yourself trapped around a bunch of baddies to get out of dodge, a pretty solid protection, although it's duration is short, so hence the reason why it's good for escaping tight combat
4th choice+ - although i don't think you can have more than 3 level 9 spells, if i could pick more i would probably pick Wish or Timestop, again more spells that i won't use, but when i remember to use them, they are useful when there
so in short, that is the spell line up i use to beat IWD/How/ToTLM/HoF mode, plus i have a script made for my arcane users to cast offensive spells automatically ( hence the reason why i forget to cast a lot of my other choices )
another thing is, there is usually only a couple of "must haves" per level, so even if you choose spells that aren't necessarily all that great, you still won't be that gimped
Firstly, why did you choose Mass Invisibility over Invisibility 10' radius?
Next, if you had to take any summoning spell, which ones would you select?
Is Emotion Hopelessness party friendly?
And lastly, that script thing that you said you made, that is, did you make it by selecting from the script list or did you have to do some modding? I'd like to have auto-control, but the sorcerer seems to cast the undesired spells when I select those pre-made scripts.
Edit: Oh, and one more thing, aren't there more than one scrolls of Find Familiar? Since it's a one time casting, you can cast it from a scroll rather than putting a spell slot in it, isn't it so? Moreover, as the description states it, only one party member can have a familiar. So either the Sorcerer or your Fighter/Mage can have it, right?
Even if you keep playing on Normal difficulty mode, stun/instakill spells are useful. Also keep in mind that a fair number of IWD's area-of-effect spells don't affect party members, so you can cast things like emotion (hopelessness) and wail in range of your melee characters.
What you don't need to do, on any difficulty level, is worry about the "strategic" spells you might be used to casting in BG2, from breach to secret word to true seeing. IWD is basically about bashing monsters over the head until they stop moving; there's essentially none of the complex mage-on-mage combat for which BG2 is renowned.
However, I still need some conjurer's advice.
#2 when it comes to summoning spells, i just use the level 3 cleric spell animate dead, they are immune to cloud kill and stinking cloud ( which is cast by baddies more than you would think ) plus i use them as distracters, if i want to use summons that will actually help for combat then the level 5 elemental summoning spells are pretty solid, but even with that said, i just beat the game on HoF mode, and animate dead was still more than adequate
#3 emotion hopelessness is indeed party friendly, blast away
#4 for the spell scripts, it was my own custom made script using Near Infinity, especially when making your own script, you can make it so your characters will cast any spell, and have it so they don't cast it when it would be a waste ( like casting hold monster on a monster that is already held ) although some times it's not perfect, but its far superior compared to the default scripts you are given with
#5 indeed i could just use the scroll of familiar instead of using up one of my sorcerer spell slots, but when i have a sorcerer 999 times out of 1000 the sorcerer will be my only arcane caster and plus as long as you have magic missile and identify for level 1 it really doesnt matter what i choose for the other spells, and as you said, only ONE party member can have a familiar, the game doesnt care which party member has it, so if you have an arcane caster that likes to go into melee combat i would highly suggest having that caster cast that spell
By the way, the fact that no enemy casts True Sight means that this game is basically a Backstabber's Paradise. I think I'll try a Shadowdancer the next time. (In fact I've been tempted to start a solo with a F/M/T, and I'm really enjoying Hiding in Shadows and Backstabbing.)
Level 1:
Chromatic Orb -> This is a life-saver and almost an "I Win!" button in IWD.
Magic Missile -> Fast, no hit roll, no save, gets past Stoneskin, ranged attack. I'll take it.
Friends -> Some of the best loot from IWD can be bought, so yeah, this is kind of a thing.
Burning Hands -> Because trolls are really an issue in IWD.
Fifth slot -> Whatever. Just don't pick Find Familiar (you'll literally only use it once, so you can get your familiar from a scroll) and Identify (spend a precious spell slot for something that a merchant can do for you?). I would go with Grease: crowd control matters in IWD.
Level 2:
Blur and Mirror Image -> Because eventually some enemy will get close to you.
Glitterdust -> Area of effect Blindness. Can be a life-saver if your frontliners are under heavy pressure.
Web -> Crowd control is never enough.
The fifth slot is the hardest one here. Normally I don't take with Sorcerer a spell that has a better version in the future, but Invisibility can be very helpful to 1) let your thief clean up any traps in a dungeon 2) let your cleric safely turn undead (if you have an Undead Redeemer like I did most of the dungeons will be swept this way).
Level 3:
Skull Trap -> Magic damage, area spell, can be used as a trap and scales with level in a way that Fireball doesn't. Yes.
Haste -> Will give your party an edge on crucial battles. Just remind that in IWDEE, Haste will make your party fatigued, so proceed with caution.
Melf's Minute Meteor -> A nice way to deliver damage from a safe distance. And can also help against trolls and frost salamanders.
Slow -> Again: crowd control. And can reduce the pressure over your tanks.
Fifth slot: Whatever. Usually Dispel Magic. A priest can cast it instead of you, but with your versatility of not needing to memorize it won't hurt to carry this spell in your Sorcerer too.
Level 4:
Greater Malison -> A way to make sure all the other crowd control spell will actually land.
Stoneskin -> As the enemies almost never remove protective spells in IWD now you're pretty much untouchable.
Emotion: Hopelessness -> Let the cleric make the buff, you are here to keep enemies in under pressure and disabled. This spell won't affect undead, that's why it's not in a higher position in this rank.
Improved Invisibility -> More protection for you or for another party member. Can be useful to boost a tank or to help some fragile member (like a thief) to carry on.
Fifth slot: I don't really care. Most of the times I take Otiluke's Resilient Sphere. This can be useful to neutralize a treat while your party kills minions or to completly reduce the pressure over a party member.
Level 5:
Chaos -> A crowd control spells with a huge penalty over its Saving Throw: yes!
Feeblemind -> My favored spell in any Infinity Engine game. This can completely turn the tide of a battle or end it even before it starts. Combine it with Greater Malison, Doom and Chant and you'll certainly shut down a lot of treats.
Lower Resistance -> Unfortunately it is something you'll need to do anything again some enemies.
Cloudkill -> Area of effect, crowd control, goes nice with Web. You know the drill already.
Fifth slot: I usually take Animate Dead -> because I think it gives the party a solid cannon fodder, but a priest can do it earlier and using a lower spell slot.
Level 6:
Protection From Magical Weapons -> This will let you tank a little or can be used as a life-saver if a boss targets your sorcerer.
Contigency -> Life-saver. Just take it.
Soul Eater -> Area magical damage, creates a minion in your favor, boosts stats.
Death Spell -> Can be very useful to clean a wave of minions and make the party spare resources.
Fifth slot: Don't really care. You can take Mislead, but Project Image is right around the corner. Globe of Invulnerability and Invisible Stalker are nice options too.
Level 7:
Spell Sequencer -> Just do it.
Mordenkainen's Sword -> The definitive tank, despite the short duration. Can be very useful to keep huge treats busy or soak spells for your party.
Project Image -> The possibilities are infinite with this spell. Boosts your casting capacity and lets you handle where and how your enemies will get in touch with your party. Great for soaking spells too.
Seven Eyes -> I particularly love this spell. Can protect you from several nasty things and have a nice duration.
Prismatic Spray -> Maybe is the PnP speaking louder, but I just love this spell. Lots of damaging and disabling effects under one single casting.
Level 8:
Spell Trigger -> Just do it.
Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting -> Nice area of effect party friendly (IIRC) spell.
Simulacrum -> Boosts your casting capacity and gives you a solid yet expandable minion.
Pierce Shield -> Lowers resistance and remove a spell protection, all under one cast.
Level 9:
Chain Contingency -> Just do it.
Time Stop -> The definitive spell when it comes to giving a caster control over the battlefield.
Wish -> Congrats, now your party is immortal. Just make sure you drink a Potion of Insight before using it.
Shapechange -> Can be very useful, specially with the Time Stop-and-Mind Flayer combo.
But I wouldn't give up on it.
This is the kind of spell to deliver before going melee, this way the enemies will be heavily damaged even before the battle starts.
Another thing that shows how Grease and Web keep their importance through all the game.
Tagging @sarevok57 'cause he would probably know.
although i don't have much insight on melf's minute meteors because i NEVER use that spell ( haha ) although i hear it is good, i never find it necessary ( probably because of metagaming )
although one thing i know about the throwing daggers is that STR stacks with it, so if give your dagger thrower a belt with it, you can deal some serious damage per hit, not sure if MMM uses STR bonus......
so no STR bonus, but it deals 1d4+3 piercing damage, +3 fire damage, and counts as a +6 weapon ( wowzers ) this is in the unmodded game
Chill Touch, Melf's Minute Meteor, you name it. Every time you cast one of these your extra-slots will be lost.
Also, avoiding any Heart of Winter spoilers, are there any instances in HoW where True Sight is absolutely essential, or can you just do without it?
I also realized that if you're doing a solo Sorcerer run, Black Blade of Disaster is a must-have spell.