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Request: Let Wizards choose their forbidden spell school

Much like in DnD of any edition, making wizards have the choice of which spell school they forsake in exchange for specializing would be excellent, instead of the default choice where picking a spellschool forbids a predetermined spellschool.
booinyoureyes

Comments

  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 1,481
    I know for a fact you didn't have such a choice in 1st or second 2nd ed. Which edition did allow this as the last ed. I bought was a boxed set of 4th and at the moment that is stored away.

    TR
    tbone1
  • LyraVrenLyraVren Member Posts: 21
    According to 3.5 Player's Handbook you choose two schools to give up, unless you specialize in Divination, in which case you give up only one. Divination also can't be chosen as a prohibited school.
    tbone1
  • ThorssonThorsson Member Posts: 190
    LyraVren said:

    According to 3.5 Player's Handbook you choose two schools to give up, unless you specialize in Divination, in which case you give up only one. Divination also can't be chosen as a prohibited school.

    Well let's follow D&D then, rather than replace one homebrew system with another.
    BradgeDM_Djinn
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 909
    It's not really homebrew, it's a half-done much softer version of the traditional system. You can still force the prohibited schools in 3.5 to prevent your players from gaming the system and to make magic more lore consistent. It's more of a retro conversion.
  • ThorssonThorsson Member Posts: 190
    Seems like a definition of homebrew to me: "a version of...". While the game exchanges one set of limitations for another, the suggestion lessens the limitation. IOW it's a power increase. In general I'm against a power increase unless there is a good reason for it. This doesn't appear to have a good reason.

    I know, because I've already seen it said, that there are those that think that what goes on in the player's computer is only between him and his deity, but the fact is that such things change the balance for everyone and everything.
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    The P&P rules already had to try to correct for there being fewer spells in the Divination school. In NWN this is an even bigger option, with it's much more limited pool of spells to choose from. The fixed schools rule is to try and ensure that all mage specialists have a similar sized school of spells. If you wanted to remove it you would have to add a whole lot more spells, including lots of non-combat spells.
    cherryzeroThorssonsarevok57
  • DM_DjinnDM_Djinn Member Posts: 112
    edited August 2022
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  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 909
    Both approaches are D&D rules but NWN only disallows 1 opposed school which is not.
  • DM_DjinnDM_Djinn Member Posts: 112
    edited August 2022
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  • DM_DjinnDM_Djinn Member Posts: 112
    edited August 2022
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  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248
    Wow... I feel like a complete dork because I knew exactly what edition that was from based on the font...

    I need to do something useful with my life. I could have been a doctor or something.

    ;)
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,985

    Wow... I feel like a complete dork because I knew exactly what edition that was from based on the font...

    I need to do something useful with my life. I could have been a doctor or something.

    ;)

    On the plus side, you didn’t go into New Jersey politics

    voidofopinion
  • raz651raz651 Member Posts: 175
    You also have to remember that the guys at Bioware were working on this game well before the release of the 3.0 rules and were working from the notes or pre-release version of the 3.0 rules.

    That being said. Following the above 2e rules does not negate the 3.0 rules as they can be the choices made by a player and may have been the more of the 3.0 rules up until the release of the rules, being changed based upon feedback of the test players of Dungeon and Dragons 3E. Let alone the 3.5E rules which were release well after the release of NWN.

    By then the rules being hardcoded in the game and not really breaking the rules of the 3E rules so not really something that needed immediate address.

    Blast from the Past Interview.
    http://www.ign.com/articles/2002/04/24/neverwinter-nights-interview-2?page=1
    DM_Djinn
  • fkirenicusfkirenicus Member Posts: 331
    This should be easy in my opinion - NWN is D&D 3.0. This should be handled like the D&D 3.0 rule books say.
    For the record, Temple of Elemental Evil is D&D 3.5, and if memory serves you choose two opposition schools there, unless you specify in Divination, which means you only have to choose one opposition school.
  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 367
    edited February 2018
    Opposition schools are a horrible concept.

    They don't oppose each other thematically. Arbitrarily pre-selecting opposition school(s) makes as little sense as letting the player choose them.

    Why is Conjurer A able to cast Fireball but Conjurer B can't do it, ever?

    If anything, this needs to be soft coded so servers can make their own rules. How about lowering caster level for all other schools by 1? Effective but not arbitrarily restrictive as a downside for specializing. And it makes sense, logically.
  • mlkent22mlkent22 Member Posts: 41
    The current opposition settings:
    Focus school Opposition:
    Abjuration Conjuration
    Evocation Conjuration
    Conjuration Transmutation
    Necromancy Divination
    Transmutation Conjuration
    Enchantment Illusion
    Divination Illusion
    Illusion Enchantment

    Note: Abjuration, Evocation, and Necromancy are not a opposition school at all

    I propose this change:
    Focus school Opposition:
    Abjuration Evocation
    Evocation Abjuration
    Conjuration Transmutation
    Necromancy Divination
    Transmutation Conjuration
    Enchantment Illusion
    Divination Necromancy
    Illusion Enchantment

    This proposed oppositions might not be in keeping with current D&D systems, however it is balanced in that every school has a unique opposition, and that opposition is at least universal.
  • FreshLemonBunFreshLemonBun Member Posts: 909
    It's because they used to be called schools of philosophy, they designed magic as this sort of strange and intricate system that emphasized more differences in methods rather than differences in wardrobe and makeup.

    "Spells are divided into nine different categories, or schools, according to the types of magical energy they utilize. Each school has its own special methods and practices. Although they are called schools, schools of magic are not organized places where a person goes to study. The word "school" identifies a magical discipline. A school is an approach to magic and spellcasting that emphasizes a particular sort of spell."

    "Merely reading these instructions aloud or trying to mimic the instructions does not enable one to cast the spell. Spells gather and shape mystical energies; the procedures involved are very demanding, bizarre, and intricate."

    To be a specialist you also needed a secondary minimum ability score linked to your school to be a 15 or 16. Since in AD&D you could only learn a set number of spells based on ability score, lower chance to learn, and only get one attempt per level, to learn all spells with 100% chance you needed a higher int than typically possible. A specialist on the other hand was awarded a free spell of their school per level and had +15% to their chance for school spells and -15% for non school spells. They also get +1 saving throw against spells of their own school and others get -1 saves (effectively +1 DC) on spells of their specialist school. In creating their own spells of their school using the rules the difficulty is lowered by 1 level. There's also an AD&D supplement with expanded spell school specialist features and in another book a school based method for giving spells that follow a theme.

    Moving to 3rd edition they cut a lot of that, gave more and had fewer limits, only keeping the bonus spell, prohibited schools were now a choice, and only a spellcraft DC 15 + spell level check was needed which the specialist got as +2 school bonus and no penalty. For a non specialist wizard with 19 intelligence and no increases to spellcraft to learn any spell 100% chance only requires 16 levels. So it becomes trivial and the restriction is seen as thematically pointless since magic is all the same thing, it's just an artifact left over from the past.

    3.5 also has some alternative class features that gave specialists some unique abilities in exchange for things like wizard bonus feats and familiars.
    voidofopinion
  • BertramAndersBertramAnders Member Posts: 1
    As a PW player, I want the choice to choose my prohibited school from an RP standpoint. I get that there by choosing your prohibited school you can better optimize your wizard, but by having your prohibited school fixed makes wizards feel more rigid.

    Not to mention the fact that 3.0 and 3.5 both let you choose which schools you want to prohibit, though it does state that you choose two schools to be your forbidden ones.

    Given both of those facts though, it makes sense with the limitations that NwN has on you school selection that you should be able to make more of a hybrid of the rules.

    1. Choose your forbidden school.
    2. Limit it to 1 forbidden school since the total spell pool is smaller than in PnP.
  • DM_DjinnDM_Djinn Member Posts: 112
    edited August 2022
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    Post edited by DM_Djinn on
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