Suggestion: Exporting a character from BG2:EE into NWN:EE
marcialhd
Member Posts: 53
Hi i have never posted a thread here before but i felt i had to since i wanted to know peoples opinion on this matter and also i wanted put a suggestion while explaining why i think this isn't as impossible as some believe. Well as some of you probably know back in the original BG2 there was a loading screen tip that basically said "You can import your BG2 character into Neverwinter Nights!" we all know this was never realized and while i know Beamdog already said that they have no plans to make this feature for NWN:EE i would like it to at least be considered to be added in a future patch or for a new module since they said they have the intention of making new ones, in the next paragraphs i'm going to try to expose my ideas of how this could work.
Well first of all since for this scenario the we are using a charater from BG2:EE we must take into consideration that they aren't a normal member of their race they are Bhaalspawn and that should carry a series of advantages and disadvantages, these characters when imported should have a different template than the one used by character created in NWN:EE, for this "Bhaalspawn Template" i think we could use whats on this page https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Bhaalspawn as a guide:
Bhaalspawn Template:
Level Adjustment: +2
Can be applied to: Dragon, Fey, Giant, Humanoid, Monstrous Humanoid, Outsider, or Shapechanger. The creature gains the Outsider type and retains all base qualities except where indicated otherwise.
Natural Armor Bonus +1
Favored Class changes to Sorcerer
Special Qualities: A bhaalspawn gains a number of Bhaalspawn Advantages, and an equal number of Bhaalspawn Penalties, determined by its Hit Dice, at the following rate: 1-3 HD gives 2 Bhaalspawn Special Qualities, 4-5 HD gives you 3 abilities, 6-7 HD gives you 4 abilities, 8-9 HD gives you 5 abilities, 10-11 HD gives you 6 abilities, 12-13 HD gives you 7 abilities, 14-15 HD gives you 8 abilities, 16-17 HD gives you 9 abilities, 18-19 HD gives you 10 abilities, and 20+ HD gives you 11 abilities, at which point you can't get any higher.
You cannot take an Advantage or a Penalty more thn once, although one would argue that some traits, such as Cold Resistance, Fast Healing, and Charisma or Wisdom Loss ought to be exceptions to the rule.
Spell-like abilities granted as Bhaalspawn Advantages all cast with a caster level equal to the Bhaalspawn's character level.
As we can see this gives the Bhaalspawn character some qualities that make them different from the rest their race although for balance's sake i think some of this could be changed, like the amount of "Special Qualities" given by Hit Dice could be lowered or the Favored Class instead of being changed into Sorcerer it could be changed into "Any" as it is for Humans and Half-Elves, but personally i don't mind Sorcerer specially considering that some of them gain their powers thanks to being descendants from a deity, it does fit the whole "child of a god" theme of a Bhaalspawn. As for the advantages and penalties themselves well i think that the ones shown in that page are fitting enough but feel free to suggest your own.
Now onto the classes, i feel this is the part where the most difficulty is found and why most people (developers included) believe this is impossible, the problem is not really there for single classes almost all of them have a version in NWN, the problem comes mostly from class kits, dual classes and multiclasses, how do you import them into NWN system? well i have some suggestions and i will tackle some specific cases for some specific kits later on but for now lets focus on single classes and their kits.
As i said above for single classes the solution is quite simple, whatever class your character from BG2EE is they would become the NWNEE version of said class, but they would start at level 1 like everyone else, this is mainly for balance reasons but if you want a lore friendly explanation well at the end of TOB we have the option of renouncing to our fragment of Bhaal's essence (and from what i know about Forgotten Realms lore its probably the canon choice), it could be that thanks to it we ended up being depowered basically a "from Hero to Zero" situation, another explanation could be that this character is another Bhaalspawn that wasn't involved in the events of the BG Saga, anyways this would affect both the base classes and most of their kits again with some exceptions.
In the case of dual classes i though about 2 possible solutions; in the first which ever class the dual classed character started as would be the one they become in NWNEE, in the other when importing the character into the game they could choose which of the 2 classes they would like to become and then they would get the appropriate feats and abilities of a level 1 version of said class, from these 2 prefer the first one since it seems both the most simple and the most logical of the 2 in this case.
In the case of multiclass well being honest its basically the the same as with dual classes but the thing is that with a multiclass you already start as all the classes involved instead of going from one into the other, similar to the above the first solution could be that the first class to appear in the multiclass name would be the one to be imported but frankly unlike with dual classes i don't like this option since it would mean that nearly all of them would become plain fighters when imported with only Cleric / Ranger, Cleric / Mage and Cleric / Thief becoming clerics and Mage / Thief becoming wizards, i don't like this since it would make choosing a multiclass basically worthless, for that reason i think letting multiclasses choose which of their classes is the one they want to become in NWNEE is the best solution for this case.
Now i already explained what i believe could be possible solutions for importing single classes, dual classes and multiclasses from BG2EE to NWNEE if the feature ever gets implemented, but i did mention that there are some kits that are exceptions to this solutions i will now talk about those while also mentioning possible solutions for each one.
1. Assassin: as we know this one is a thief kit so it should not have any problems being imported into NWNEE right?, well the thing is that Assassin alreday exists in NWN... as a Prestige Class (Prc) which for those who may not know are classes that have certain requirements that need to be met before unlocking them, this means that normally a character could NOT start the game as one of these, which presents a problem should one try to import this from BG2EE to NWNEE but i have a proposal, let the Assassin kit from BG2EE become a level 1 version of the Assassin Prc from NWNEE but with the penalty that they won't be able to level up in that class at least until they meet the requirements needed to unlock it which for Assassin means; getting 8 ranks in both Hide and Move Silently and being of an evil alignment, i think this would be a good way to solve this problem because frankly this something not exclusive to this case but to the rest of the exceptions of this list.
2. Shadowdancer: same case as above, a thief kit that ended up becoming a Prc in NWN and like above i suggest the same solution, letting the imported character become the Prc but being unable to progress on it until they meet the requirements to unlock it which in this case would be; having the feats Dodge and Mobility, and getting 10 ranks in Hide, 8 in Move Silently and 5 in Tumble.
3. Barbarian: unlike the last 2 cases this is a fighter kit instead of a rogue one, but while it is not a Prc in NWN it is a base class which means that this one is actually similar to my solution for single classes, i just mention it here since its easy to think that because its part of the fighter class in BG2EE it should just become that in NWNEE but in fact both have their differences.
4. Dwarven defender: this one is more similar to the first 2 cases as it is a Prc in NWN and like those cases i think the solution should be the same, in this case the requirements to level up in the Prc are; being a Dwarf, being of a Lawful alignment, having a Base attack bonus (BAB) of +7 and having the feats Dodge and Toughness.
5. Blackguard: this one is different than the above, in BG2EE they are a paladin kit but in NWN they not only a Prc but also their alignment requirements make them so incompatible that the only way a paladin could become this is if they became a fallen paladin which while could be great from a roleplay perspective is not so good from a gameplay one, my solution though would be the same as most the other cases from above, let the character keep the Prc at level 1 but make them unable to advance on it until the meet the requirements to unlock it, for blackguard that would be; being any of the evil alignments, having a BAB of +6, getting 5 ranks in Hide and getting the Cleave feat.
6. Dragon Disciple: like the blackguard this one is different, in BG2EE its a sorcerer kit in NWN not only sorcerers but also bards can get this Prc but that is not its only problem, i could justify all other cases at level 1 since all of them had armor and weapon proficiencies that they could use on their first levels until they could unlock their requirements and continue to progress their class but this one doesn't, the only way i can see to fix this is if it gains the sorcerer's armor and weapon proficiencies, the reason is because both them and bards use the Weapon proficiency (simple) and since either can become this Prc i think this would let the player choose which one would they like, again like the above cases it could progress in this Prc unless the requirements to unlock it were met which in this case are being a sorcerer or bard and having 8 ranks in Lore.
7. Shaman: this is more and aside since shamans don't exist in NWN but rather in NWN2 the only solution for this is if they added a shaman class in the enhanced edition.
Aaand this is it i'm so sorry for the wall of text guys but i had this in mind for such a long time that i needed to express it in some way and also when i heard that they were going to make NWN:EE it only became more bothersome to just keep it to myself, i know they will probably never do this and that the game will not have it when they release it but still i would like for them to consider this for a future update or new module for it, thanks to all of you that took their time reading this wishful thinking of mine and i hope see your feedback on this.
Well first of all since for this scenario the we are using a charater from BG2:EE we must take into consideration that they aren't a normal member of their race they are Bhaalspawn and that should carry a series of advantages and disadvantages, these characters when imported should have a different template than the one used by character created in NWN:EE, for this "Bhaalspawn Template" i think we could use whats on this page https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Bhaalspawn as a guide:
Bhaalspawn Template:
Level Adjustment: +2
Can be applied to: Dragon, Fey, Giant, Humanoid, Monstrous Humanoid, Outsider, or Shapechanger. The creature gains the Outsider type and retains all base qualities except where indicated otherwise.
Natural Armor Bonus +1
Favored Class changes to Sorcerer
Special Qualities: A bhaalspawn gains a number of Bhaalspawn Advantages, and an equal number of Bhaalspawn Penalties, determined by its Hit Dice, at the following rate: 1-3 HD gives 2 Bhaalspawn Special Qualities, 4-5 HD gives you 3 abilities, 6-7 HD gives you 4 abilities, 8-9 HD gives you 5 abilities, 10-11 HD gives you 6 abilities, 12-13 HD gives you 7 abilities, 14-15 HD gives you 8 abilities, 16-17 HD gives you 9 abilities, 18-19 HD gives you 10 abilities, and 20+ HD gives you 11 abilities, at which point you can't get any higher.
You cannot take an Advantage or a Penalty more thn once, although one would argue that some traits, such as Cold Resistance, Fast Healing, and Charisma or Wisdom Loss ought to be exceptions to the rule.
Spell-like abilities granted as Bhaalspawn Advantages all cast with a caster level equal to the Bhaalspawn's character level.
As we can see this gives the Bhaalspawn character some qualities that make them different from the rest their race although for balance's sake i think some of this could be changed, like the amount of "Special Qualities" given by Hit Dice could be lowered or the Favored Class instead of being changed into Sorcerer it could be changed into "Any" as it is for Humans and Half-Elves, but personally i don't mind Sorcerer specially considering that some of them gain their powers thanks to being descendants from a deity, it does fit the whole "child of a god" theme of a Bhaalspawn. As for the advantages and penalties themselves well i think that the ones shown in that page are fitting enough but feel free to suggest your own.
Now onto the classes, i feel this is the part where the most difficulty is found and why most people (developers included) believe this is impossible, the problem is not really there for single classes almost all of them have a version in NWN, the problem comes mostly from class kits, dual classes and multiclasses, how do you import them into NWN system? well i have some suggestions and i will tackle some specific cases for some specific kits later on but for now lets focus on single classes and their kits.
As i said above for single classes the solution is quite simple, whatever class your character from BG2EE is they would become the NWNEE version of said class, but they would start at level 1 like everyone else, this is mainly for balance reasons but if you want a lore friendly explanation well at the end of TOB we have the option of renouncing to our fragment of Bhaal's essence (and from what i know about Forgotten Realms lore its probably the canon choice), it could be that thanks to it we ended up being depowered basically a "from Hero to Zero" situation, another explanation could be that this character is another Bhaalspawn that wasn't involved in the events of the BG Saga, anyways this would affect both the base classes and most of their kits again with some exceptions.
In the case of dual classes i though about 2 possible solutions; in the first which ever class the dual classed character started as would be the one they become in NWNEE, in the other when importing the character into the game they could choose which of the 2 classes they would like to become and then they would get the appropriate feats and abilities of a level 1 version of said class, from these 2 prefer the first one since it seems both the most simple and the most logical of the 2 in this case.
In the case of multiclass well being honest its basically the the same as with dual classes but the thing is that with a multiclass you already start as all the classes involved instead of going from one into the other, similar to the above the first solution could be that the first class to appear in the multiclass name would be the one to be imported but frankly unlike with dual classes i don't like this option since it would mean that nearly all of them would become plain fighters when imported with only Cleric / Ranger, Cleric / Mage and Cleric / Thief becoming clerics and Mage / Thief becoming wizards, i don't like this since it would make choosing a multiclass basically worthless, for that reason i think letting multiclasses choose which of their classes is the one they want to become in NWNEE is the best solution for this case.
Now i already explained what i believe could be possible solutions for importing single classes, dual classes and multiclasses from BG2EE to NWNEE if the feature ever gets implemented, but i did mention that there are some kits that are exceptions to this solutions i will now talk about those while also mentioning possible solutions for each one.
1. Assassin: as we know this one is a thief kit so it should not have any problems being imported into NWNEE right?, well the thing is that Assassin alreday exists in NWN... as a Prestige Class (Prc) which for those who may not know are classes that have certain requirements that need to be met before unlocking them, this means that normally a character could NOT start the game as one of these, which presents a problem should one try to import this from BG2EE to NWNEE but i have a proposal, let the Assassin kit from BG2EE become a level 1 version of the Assassin Prc from NWNEE but with the penalty that they won't be able to level up in that class at least until they meet the requirements needed to unlock it which for Assassin means; getting 8 ranks in both Hide and Move Silently and being of an evil alignment, i think this would be a good way to solve this problem because frankly this something not exclusive to this case but to the rest of the exceptions of this list.
2. Shadowdancer: same case as above, a thief kit that ended up becoming a Prc in NWN and like above i suggest the same solution, letting the imported character become the Prc but being unable to progress on it until they meet the requirements to unlock it which in this case would be; having the feats Dodge and Mobility, and getting 10 ranks in Hide, 8 in Move Silently and 5 in Tumble.
3. Barbarian: unlike the last 2 cases this is a fighter kit instead of a rogue one, but while it is not a Prc in NWN it is a base class which means that this one is actually similar to my solution for single classes, i just mention it here since its easy to think that because its part of the fighter class in BG2EE it should just become that in NWNEE but in fact both have their differences.
4. Dwarven defender: this one is more similar to the first 2 cases as it is a Prc in NWN and like those cases i think the solution should be the same, in this case the requirements to level up in the Prc are; being a Dwarf, being of a Lawful alignment, having a Base attack bonus (BAB) of +7 and having the feats Dodge and Toughness.
5. Blackguard: this one is different than the above, in BG2EE they are a paladin kit but in NWN they not only a Prc but also their alignment requirements make them so incompatible that the only way a paladin could become this is if they became a fallen paladin which while could be great from a roleplay perspective is not so good from a gameplay one, my solution though would be the same as most the other cases from above, let the character keep the Prc at level 1 but make them unable to advance on it until the meet the requirements to unlock it, for blackguard that would be; being any of the evil alignments, having a BAB of +6, getting 5 ranks in Hide and getting the Cleave feat.
6. Dragon Disciple: like the blackguard this one is different, in BG2EE its a sorcerer kit in NWN not only sorcerers but also bards can get this Prc but that is not its only problem, i could justify all other cases at level 1 since all of them had armor and weapon proficiencies that they could use on their first levels until they could unlock their requirements and continue to progress their class but this one doesn't, the only way i can see to fix this is if it gains the sorcerer's armor and weapon proficiencies, the reason is because both them and bards use the Weapon proficiency (simple) and since either can become this Prc i think this would let the player choose which one would they like, again like the above cases it could progress in this Prc unless the requirements to unlock it were met which in this case are being a sorcerer or bard and having 8 ranks in Lore.
7. Shaman: this is more and aside since shamans don't exist in NWN but rather in NWN2 the only solution for this is if they added a shaman class in the enhanced edition.
Aaand this is it i'm so sorry for the wall of text guys but i had this in mind for such a long time that i needed to express it in some way and also when i heard that they were going to make NWN:EE it only became more bothersome to just keep it to myself, i know they will probably never do this and that the game will not have it when they release it but still i would like for them to consider this for a future update or new module for it, thanks to all of you that took their time reading this wishful thinking of mine and i hope see your feedback on this.
3
Comments
I'd have to ask though: what's the point? At the end of the BG2 game you're an epic level (possibly a god). What further challenges would that character need?
Making up a story for yourself, like Tord did for Lily Black, is the best solution if you want to play your Bhaalspawn in NWN, in my opinion.