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List of differences new vs old

AADA7AAADA7A Member Posts: 32
Basically I would like to see a list of these, but until then, this is what I've seen that has been changed:

Chromatic Orbs death effects on higher levels is not mentioned. Is this because it has been removed or because the manual simply has an exp cap which doesn't allow for it anyway? I think it would be interesting to know that level cap, and add the descriptions for high level chromatic orb anyway, since that is what has been done with basically everything else, plus that it's good to know when choosing spells as a sorcerer.

SEEKING SWORD: Considered a +4 weapon for purposes of determining what it can hit, but no longer adds any other bonuses. Probably good nerf for low level gaming.

Spook has no longer -6 saving throw, but gradually becomes better with level. Our quest (for powergaming) is in vain! :D

Vampiric Touch is nerfed for low-levels.

Wraithform seems to be a new spell!

In the description for the Confusion spell, it is added that the saving throw with a -2 penalty is "adjusted for wisdom". What does this mean?

Animate Dead description mentions no upgrades for skeleton warriors at level 15 or what it used to be. No more?

Chaotic Commands is a new spell!
Post edited by Balquo on

Comments

  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    Some of those spells aren't exactly new, they just come form BG2. This might also explain some of the differences in spell descriptions.

    I think the "adjusted for wisdom" is an oversight.

    And the experience cap is the same as vanilla BG1+TotSC (161k).

    Some of the problems with the manual (no mention of what the exp cap is, outdated spell descriptions) is due to the fact that the manual was finalized to get approved weeks ago before the xp cap was decided upon and the spell descriptions were revised for BGEE.
  • CuvCuv Member, Developer Posts: 2,535
    Wraithform isnt new... it was in BG1 but didnt work properly. It does now:D
  • cbarchukcbarchuk Member Posts: 322
    Looks like elves only get the bonus to hit with bows and longswords now as opposed to all swords. That's cool.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Tanthalas said:

    Some of the problems with the manual (no mention of what the exp cap is, outdated spell descriptions) is due to the fact that the manual was finalized to get approved weeks ago before the xp cap was decided upon and the spell descriptions were revised for BGEE.

    It was also written back in August, which explains why some of the screenshots may look a little funny. I started a new job in October that made it difficult to devote as much time to this as I would have liked (I would have loved to work on it full-time for another two months, but unfortunately I do have rent to pay).
  • swnmcmlxiswnmcmlxi Member Posts: 297
    Great job anyway, @Aosaw!
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    AADA7A said:

    ...Vampiric Touch is nerfed for low-levels...

    ? Vampiric Touch looks the same as it ever was.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    swnmcmlxi said:

    Great job anyway, @Aosaw!

    Thanks; @Jalily was also a great help in catching typos and other errors, and a number of the things in this thread we actually spotted a couple of weeks ago, but by then it was too late to make any changes (the manual went "gold" before the game did, because it's so long).
  • AADA7AAADA7A Member Posts: 32
    Right, don't trust me on these issues! :D Vampiric touch is indeed the same, and although I can't remember wraithform I'll trust you on this one! Some things are definitely different, at least when compared to the descriptions I'm finding around the net right now, as is the case with spook and seeking sword for example (planetbaldur and playithardcore respectively).
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    cbarchuk said:

    Looks like elves only get the bonus to hit with bows and longswords now as opposed to all swords. That's cool.

    Because the manual says so? I wouldn't rely on that information (there are mistakes, see the bugs forum) and heard otherwise from elsewhere, at least for the initial release. Also, if playing by PnP rules, elves should get the +1 THAC0 for bows, long swords *and* short swords.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    Honestly, I wasn't even aware of that issue with elves and their THAC0 bonus until it was brought up a few days ago.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Speaking very generally, the instruction manual for any game is written before the game itself is completed. So there are bound to be some discrepancies (the original manual was a perfect example of this--% chance to resurrect, anyone?).

    I'm keeping track of the errors people find, but updating the instruction manual would be rather unprecedented for a video game.

    So @Oxford_Guy is right, to a certain extent; the manual is up to date as of a few months ago (with the kit descriptions being up to date as of October), but there may be small changes that have been made more recently, which won't be described in the manual as they are in practice. One of those quirks of development, with which I'm all too familiar.

    (As another example, I was creating online help for a piece of software, and unbeknownst to me one of the developers had completely changed a feature to work differently, after I had already documented it. When the next version was released, people were confused because the help said one thing and the program said another.)
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Aosaw said:

    Speaking very generally, the instruction manual for any game is written before the game itself is completed. So there are bound to be some discrepancies (the original manual was a perfect example of this--% chance to resurrect, anyone?).

    I'm keeping track of the errors people find, but updating the instruction manual would be rather unprecedented for a video game.

    True, though Baldur's Gate isn't just any video game, its *Baldur's Gate*, *the* cRPG of all time!

    I'm sure there'd be plenty of community support available here to go through any corrections, proof-read etc.
    Aosaw said:


    So @Oxford_Guy is right, to a certain extent; the manual is up to date as of a few months ago (with the kit descriptions being up to date as of October), but there may be small changes that have been made more recently, which won't be described in the manual as they are in practice. One of those quirks of development, with which I'm all too familiar.

    (As another example, I was creating online help for a piece of software, and unbeknownst to me one of the developers had completely changed a feature to work differently, after I had already documented it. When the next version was released, people were confused because the help said one thing and the program said another.)

    Sure, I completely understand how these things happen, and Baldur's Gate is an extremely deep and complex game, which makes this more likely, but it doesn't mean that things can't be improved post-release, given that we now live in an age of non-paper manuals
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    BTW the current assembled list of errors/inconsistencies in the manual can be found here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/136842#Comment_136842
  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    It may be possible to release an "Addendum" with corrections? Unless the numbers of errors are too severe?
    I looked briefly at the thread @Oxford_Guy have created, and it's already 7 pages long...
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    It might be. Although if any "fixes" are implemented, they will probably just be rolled into the PDF.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    edited November 2012
    Bytebrain said:

    It may be possible to release an "Addendum" with corrections? Unless the numbers of errors are too severe?
    I looked briefly at the thread @Oxford_Guy have created, and it's already 7 pages long...

    Keep in mind that the thread was repurposed to be a listing all problems kind of thread (it started out as a "thoughts on the manual" thread, so lots of stuff in the first few pages is about opinions on the manual too.
  • NadroirNadroir Member Posts: 50
    Didn't they say they were changing the duration of mind control effects? I'm not sure if that was actually implemented or not.
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    Nadroir said:

    Didn't they say they were changing the duration of mind control effects? I'm not sure if that was actually implemented or not.

    I don't recall that.

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    By using the BG2 spell system, yes, we did. Stuff like charm lasted 82 1/2 hours* in BG. In BG2 they pared it down to durations where you didn't have to leave your computer and come back after a short nap.

    * May be a slight exaggeration
  • TanthalasTanthalas Member Posts: 6,738
    I stand corrected!
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    82 1/2 hours is a slight underrepresentation of the 200 hour charm spell, but we allow poetic license around here :D
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Well, that's 82 1/2 hours in real time. Remember that the engine moves a lot faster than our world. ;)
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    ...and now that I've had a chance to look it up--charm person lasted 17 rounds in BG, and they pared it down to five in BG2.
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