Freescape Skill-based Leveling System - Looking for Feedback

zunath

Hi all,

I recently designed a skill-based leveling system and wanted to share it with you all to get some feedback. This is very much a work-in-progress and subject to change.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l7zGG2kGYxaprfPnNB9Nr-v3-SuegWZrAezyhBbpxys/edit

I'm mostly interested to hear if it sounds like fun to you as a player. I'm totally open to all suggestions.

Thanks for any and all feedback!

Discord: https://discord.gg/q38r3gw

voidofopinion

That looks like it would be a lot of fun to play with and it also looks like it's going to be one heck of an adventure to code!

zunath

voidofopinion said:

That looks like it would be a lot of fun to play with and it also looks like it's going to be one heck of an adventure to code!

Thanks - I've actually built a system quite similar to this before so I have a pretty good idea of what to expect. There's some new elements (stat increases for example) but nothing that'll be too difficult.

The abilities/feats/spells are what's going to be the hardest part, I think! Haven't even looked at how those will work yet.

zunath

I've gotten a lot of good feedback across Discord, the forums, and Facebook. I've started to work on this.

You can track the progress and contribute here: https://github.com/zunath/Freescape_JVM/

And feel free to join us on Discord to provide additional feedback as things progress.

Discord: https://discord.gg/q38r3gw

Dark_Ansem

I am impressed at the sheer scale of this.

zunath

Dark_Ansem said:

I am impressed at the sheer scale of this.

It's a pretty big one. Luckily I'm able to leverage a lot of my existing code so it won't be quite that much work to do!

Dark_Ansem

zunath said:

Dark_Ansem said:

I am impressed at the sheer scale of this.

It's a pretty big one. Luckily I'm able to leverage a lot of my existing code so it won't be quite that much work to do!

I've been playing PotSC again and I feel all pirate-y

zunath

Spent the last few days implementing XP and level tracking for the skills. This covers all of the combat skills + defense skills at this point. They're granting ability score increases and SP now.

The next step will be to stand up the perk purchasing menu followed by implementation of the rest of the skills. Just a couple screenshots below to show the XP tracking.

Dark_Ansem

The perk system was one of the things I liked most in Skyrim. Are your perks going to be similar in any way?

zunath

Dark_Ansem said:

The perk system was one of the things I liked most in Skyrim. Are your perks going to be similar in any way?

Very similar. We're working out the details still but I think we'll follow a lot of what Skyrim did.

Every skill level-up gives you 1 SP which can be spent or saved for as long as you like. Perks can be purchased with SP and may have prerequisite skill levels before they can be bought and used. Some perks can be upgraded multiple times to boost the effectiveness.

In my mind, I see perks as fairly far-reaching. I see there being perks available for spells, HP increases, mana increases, on top of your standard combat abilities and passive bonuses. Basically, I want players to have a lot of freedom in their builds to the point where one person with 500 skill points is radically different from another person with the same amount.

Totally open to suggestions on what you like and don't like - I want this to be a pretty public project!

Dark_Ansem

Of course, all of this could be a lot easier and prettier once BD opens up the UI.

zunath

Agreed. Once that opens up, I'll be going to town on it.

Kalindor

Dark_Ansem said:

Of course, all of this could be a lot easier and prettier once BD opens up the UI.

Interesting. Does that mean they are adding the ability to pop-up custom GUI windows with custom buttons?

That would be very cool for this skill system and for mods I was considering making.

FreshLemonBun

If you look at the trello discussion section then you'll find the GUI topic which discusses what ppl need, which came after repeated requests for a modifiable GUI, essentially it's the modding of the GUI that is crucial more than simply giving it a new coat of paint.

Dark_Ansem

Kalindor said:

Dark_Ansem said:

Of course, all of this could be a lot easier and prettier once BD opens up the UI.

Interesting. Does that mean they are adding the ability to pop-up custom GUI windows with custom buttons?

That would be very cool for this skill system and for mods I was considering making.

If BD is listening. And then, if listening, if it will act upon it the way we hope.

zunath

I think on the most recent stream they mentioned they'll be adding a new GUI into the game. So it's not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when".

As soon as it's released, I'll adjust everything to use the new GUI instead of being conversation-driven. I'm really excited about it!

Dark_Ansem

zunath said:

I think on the most recent stream they mentioned they'll be adding a new GUI into the game. So it's not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when".

As soon as it's released, I'll adjust everything to use the new GUI instead of being conversation-driven. I'm really excited about it!

As I hope the PRC does.

zunath

Those of you who have played on my other servers are probably familiar with this, but for anyone who isn't, I've posted some screenshots of the building system below. I spent the last few days changing it to work with the skill system.

Looking at the blueprint details.


Physically building the structure by "bashing" it with raw materials.


The completed structure.


As the owner of the territory, you're able to use the flag and make adjustments.


Once a flag is built, you're able to build other structures nearby. These range from mundane tables and chairs to advanced crafting devices and persistent storage.

We're currently discussing whether new structure blueprints will be unlocked with higher skill ranks in Construction or if blueprints will be learned by purchasing Perks with SP.

Phantomizer

Sounds promising, not to get It Implemented Into a quality PW...one can dream, right?

Following

zunath

Phantomizer said:

Sounds promising, not to get It Implemented Into a quality PW...one can dream, right?

Following

Thanks for the interest! All of this is being built for a PW actually. It's called Freescape. Everyone is welcome to join in on the discussions on our Discord: https://discord.gg/TT2JeX7

More updates to come so be sure to watch our Discord as well as this thread.

zunath

I've spent the last day or so standing up the perks menu and upgrade system. Here's some screenshots of the menu, as well as some example perks that will be available.

Viewing your perk list


The current category list (there will be many more!)


Evasiveness - a Light Armor perk


Vanity Blueprints - a Construction perk


Defensive Maneuver - a Shields perk


Miner - a Mining perk


There's still a ton of perks to make, so I'll probably continue to do that over the next day or so.

zunath

When I started working on this project, I wanted the barrier to entry to be low. So for that reason, I chose not to use haks. However, as we delve further into its development, I'm finding a lot of limitations that would be solved using CEP.

I'm curious what people think about using CEP these days? Back in the old days, everyone had it but I don't know if that's still the case today. Is it still as popular as it once was?

As a player, would CEP turn you off from joining?

Dark_Ansem

zunath said:

When I started working on this project, I wanted the barrier to entry to be low. So for that reason, I chose not to use haks. However, as we delve further into its development, I'm finding a lot of limitations that would be solved using CEP.

I'm curious what people think about using CEP these days? Back in the old days, everyone had it but I don't know if that's still the case today. Is it still as popular as it once was?

As a player, would CEP turn you off from joining?

Which CEP?

zunath

Dark_Ansem said:

zunath said:

When I started working on this project, I wanted the barrier to entry to be low. So for that reason, I chose not to use haks. However, as we delve further into its development, I'm finding a lot of limitations that would be solved using CEP.

I'm curious what people think about using CEP these days? Back in the old days, everyone had it but I don't know if that's still the case today. Is it still as popular as it once was?

As a player, would CEP turn you off from joining?

Which CEP?

The latest - CEP 2.65. What other ones are there aside from previous versions?

zunath

Just a few updates from me.

- I've added a total of 78 perks now. We still need to make about 40 more at least, but I'm taking a break for the time being to work on another piece of the server. These are pretty draining.
- I set up our hunger system which includes eating (obviously), food poisoning, and starvation penalties. This will be expanded upon when I get to the Cooking skill.
- Among the 78 perks were a handful of magic abilities which should cover the Evocation and Alteration skills.
- I wrote up some technical documentation here which covers tasks like adding skills, perks, and food. I'll be expanding on this to cover other topics as well. It's intended for developers more than players - we will have another avenue for disseminating that information.

My next major task will be the crafting system. I have a few ideas on how I want to approach this but they need to be cleaned up a bit before I post it to get feedback. When the design document is done, I'd love to hear from you all to hear your opinions.

As always, if you want to keep up with development and discussions please join our Discord. Almost all of our development is being publicly discussed and we'd love for you all to be a part of it!

Here's a link to our Discord: https://discord.gg/q38r3gw

zunath

Hi all,

We're looking for area builders now. Refer to this link to find out more: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/69727/freescape-is-hiring-area-designers/

And be sure to join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/q38r3gw

zunath

Hi all,

Progress continues on the Freescape server.

We'll be aiming for an alpha soon. If you're interested in testing before we launch be sure to join us on our Discord!

https://discord.gg/q38r3gw


Hope to see some new faces!

Atrophiederic

Friend @zunath

This project looks absolutely amazing, thank you for sharing your notes and whatnot with us!
One question - what does it do to the character sheet? How does that change from the one we all know and love in vanilla NwN?

zunath

Hey @Atrophiederic - Thanks for your kind words. It really means a lot

As for the character sheet - it works almost entirely the same as vanilla NWN. You have your HP, attributes (STR, CON, etc.), feats, skills, BAB, etc. All of it works like it does in NWN.

The only thing that DOESN'T work the same is your class level. Since it's entirely skill-based, your class will be set to Fighter and will be stuck at level 1. (We force it to Fighter because NWN hard-codes some things based on class and Fighter is the safest one to use for our system.)

Additionally, because we've chosen to use only CEP and no custom hakpaks, the perks you purchase won't show up on your character. They're viewable in the rest menu instead.

As for attribute changes - these are mostly the same as vanilla NWN. The major differences being that they're used for some perks to increase damage, lengthen the time of a spell effect, and so on. We're approaching 100 perks now (with more to come) so it'd take a while to explain the effect each stat has on them! But rest assured that your attributes do take effect where appropriate.

The major differences are in regards to magic...

INT - This increases your maximum mana pool. It's primarily used with the Evocation line of spells.
WIS - This increases your maximum mana pool. It's primarily used with the Alteration line of spells.
CHA - This increases your mana regeneration. It's primarily used with the Summoning line of spells. It also affects farming and other skills as well.


Hopefully that helps clear some things up (and probably opens up more questions, too! )

Atrophiederic

@zunath

dude, wow, just wow. I will def. have to pop into Freescape when it's up - incredibly curious to see those altered mechanics in action! And a question - all of this work you're doing is for the server, but do you plan to release a base module of sorts, so that others may play around with the system? That would be a must-download, in my humble opinion!

zunath

The code is actually open-source and I fully intend to keep it that way. However, I don't plan on doing a base module at the moment. That might change in the future.

There are a few hurdles for the average user:

- It requires Linux (for NWNX)
- It uses Java and requires the JRE to be installed on the host machine.
- It extensively uses a MS-SQL database (although another DB could easily be swapped in)
- I haven't made any easy-to-use editors for adjusting the data yet. Right now it's all code & SQL. Not user-friendly at all

For these reasons I don't think it would be a good fit for a general-purpose release. Honestly, I think it would be better if people just forked the code on GitHub and wrote their own features to merge back in.

You can find the code here: https://github.com/zunath/Freescape_JVM/