Are permissions needed before I Can Update NWN MODs to NWN:EE?

Arkii

There tons of MODS that I have played with older versions of NWN and I was wondering if I needed to get Permissions from the original creators of the mods I want to update for NWN:EE.? I have play tested several mods already and have posted them in separate posts to this forum. Thanks!

-Arkii-

Atrophiederic

I would say that if you want to update them for your own personal use/enjoyment, feel free! But if you want to post them, then I would definitely recommend reaching out to the authors to see how they feel.

Proleric

Agreed.

Legal and ethical issues.

If you're using works from the Vault, for example, there are agreed guidelines. We've also had a recent discussion about posting Required Items on Steam, which, while not formally Vault policy, gives you a clue about authors' feelings on cross-posting in general.

In most cases, my reading is that although, by the book, the default permission and "customary usage" allow you to make derivative works unless stated otherwise, the underlying reality is that cross-posting is more likely to upset people than harvesting their assets for new works.

Grymlorde

If you are unsuccessful in reaching the authors, then you could post the updated module on the same site as the original (e.g. neverwintervault.org), give credit, and link back to the original page. Also, post a comment on the original page with a link to the EE version. In this way you are being as transparent and respectful as possible.

Proleric

@Grymlorde yes, that's pretty much the approach I've been taking with tileset fixes for EE. Moderators can post revisions on the original page if requested.

However, there is a compelling reason for those fixes - otherwise, EE will crash, disabling modules that have used those tilesets in good faith.

The vast majority of modules work with EE already, so updating them might be more questionable.

Atrophiederic

Proleric said:

The vast majority of modules work with EE already, so updating them might be more questionable.

@Arkii - I gotta agrees with @Proleric 's statement - it is my opinion that you're best off to use other folks modules as learning tools (opening them up and seeing what makes them tick), and then applying such knowledge gained towards your own original module ideas (with appropriate credit given where due). After all, this community member (and I would wager, the community at large) is *always* interested in new and exciting shiny-things!

Sylvus_Moonbow

What is there to update though? Are you planning on introducing the new scripting features to the module, or add the high res. skyboxes to all the module's exterior areas? Otherwise all modules work with EE out of the box for the most part and can use the new shader options with a click of a button under options.

Grymlorde

You can also put the various "facelift/override" haks into a patch hak (haks which load via the userpatch process) which will vastly improve the visual appeal of older modules without changing the module itself. This process works great for visual improvements (e.g. Creature Overrides) but no so great for scripts (e.g. TonyK's AI). That's because with a few exceptions, visual changes don't change the way a module is played. Whereas script overrides can conflict with other scripts. The classic example is where TonyK's AI will have monsters leave their posts and hunt down the PC. Which is fantastic if that's what the builder wants but a real PiTA if the module builder didn't plan on that behavior.

Userpatch Process:

1. In the Neverwinter Nights player directory (\My Documents\Neverwinter Nights\) create a plain text file called "userpatch.ini" [in notepad].
   
2. List the haks that you wish to override content in every module you play (see example below).
   

Example userpatch.ini

[Patch]

PatchFile000=DTH_plt_pack

PatchFile001=mfunderwear

PatchFile002=desert_666

PatchFile003=bioplcs

PatchFile004=biorural

PatchFile005=bioforest

PatchFile006=biomines

PatchFile007=biointerior

PatchFile008=bio_fbg_all

PatchFile009=Grym_PC_Portrait

PatchFile010=Grym_PC_Heads

PatchFile011=Grym_Nudes

PatchFile012=Grym_Creatures

PatchFile013=Grym_GUI

PatchFile014=Grym_Beds

PatchFile015=biosnow

PatchFile016=TNO City Dirt

PatchFile017=Grym_Bug_Fixes

Arkii

Wow, thank you every one. This seems to touch on a hot topic. I understand that most of these modules run, however for years some of them have things that can be streamlined and corrected in terms of spelling or even places that can break the experience. For example, the Premium module "Wyvern Crown of Cormyr" had a bug that made a portion of the jousting broken and needed to be fixed. I know that Cavedog is redoing it, I'm just stating it as an example of why I thought some mods needed corrections.

Proleric wrote:

Proleric said:

...
However, there is a compelling reason for those fixes - otherwise, EE will crash, disabling modules that have used those tilesets in good faith.

The vast majority of modules work with EE already, so updating them might be more questionable.

I have found most of them do run just fine, but I saw on the forums that some people were saying things like tweaking some mods to get them to work
Thank you for every reply as they help me tons. I've written some Mods and Hakpacks and other minor things like scripts or BMP files for my personal use a long time ago, I even still have the original Guide on how to use the Tools for NWN that was printed by the Makers of NWN and it is loads of fun going through it again trying to fill my head with new ideas for the EE.

-=Arkii=-

Atrophiederic

@Arkii
Do you have any plans to release your content? The more the merrier, after all!

acidchalk

Well if the person who made the original mod can't be contacted at all, and they show no signs of life online, then what i think should happen is the updated module should be uploaded with a note saying that if the original author wants it down then it shall be removed. No sense in letting something good rot away in some dusty vault!

Arkii

Atrophiederic said:

@Arkii
Do you have any plans to release your content? The more the merrier, after all!

well, as for my own content, I've never done anything like a full story mod or hak file, but I've made things like custom armor and weapons, but I'm sure everyone does that, from time to time. It requires moding the mod file you intend on using, and I don't have any rights in uploading mods made by others with some of my items or content tweaks.

Proleric

Note the recent guidance on this topic.

TarotRedhand

I wonder if those wanting to do this realise the amount of work that will be involved. Because they are not the original author(s) even fixing a single scripting bug could take days because you don't know which script does what when you first load the module into the toolset. Add to that the potential to screw other scripts while fixing the first...

But let's say you want to update the visuals then. Now we come into the realm of hak order. What you didn't know that the haks may well need to be in a specific order? But let's be generous here. Let's assume that that is not going to be an issue because you just want areas to look more modern. OK let's add a more modern tileset. In order to use this tileset you will have to make exact copies of the original areas using the new tileset. I say exact copies because most areas will have sounds, triggers, encounters, creatures, placeables, etc. in them. It's not just a matter of adding the hak to the module and everything changes as though by magic. Then, once you think you've got the copied area right, you delete the original area... That is when things really go to hell in a hand-basket.

And that is just a small sample of what you'll face. TBH it will be a lot simpler to create your own module than to update an ancient one. But if you're really set on doing this, well good luck to you. You are really going to need it.

TR

Andarian

TarotRedhand said:

I wonder if those wanting to do this realise the amount of work that will be involved.... Let's assume that that is not going to be an issue because you just want areas to look more modern. OK let's add a more modern tileset. In order to use this tileset you will have to make exact copies of the original areas using the new tileset. I say exact copies because most areas will have sounds, triggers, encounters, creatures, placeables, etc. in them... And that is just a small sample of what you'll face."

This is well taken. I know how much work it was for me just to update a handful of forest areas to use the Wild Woods tileset, in the (just released) Sanctum of the Archmage: Enhanced Edition. And I know every detail of that module like the back of my hand.

dargo91677

If you can update A Dance with Rogues hak file let me know can't play it without problems.

Proleric

@dargo91677 as mentioned in another thread, it seems that there is nothing wrong with the hak, just an issue with EE that Beamdog are going to fix.

Proleric

@amp1972 I suggest you read the Vault guidelines above. Ours is predominantly a sharing community by consent, so your comments are inappropriate.