Suggestion: give a reason to play high level Paladin?

Livegood118

I think pure Paladins are one of the most gimped classes in NWN:

– Very few scaling abilities, apart from Lay on Hands, Turn Undead and Smite Evil
– More or less forced to take Champion of Torm subclass for feats because Paladin spellcasting is so lackluster and gives you no reason to want more levels (other than RP)
– Holy Avenger, the raison d'etre to play a Paladin, doesn't scale at all and will only ever dispel with DC-15 which becomes completely useless in the late game. It also gives 16 SR. Again, totally useless.
– Epic Smite has ridiculously high CHA requirements which more or less forces you in to a low AB smiter build or to do RDD shenanigans
– Not much use at all for bonus epic feats unless going the smite route

My suggestions would be:

– Make more of the Paladins' spells scale
– Make Holy Avenger Scale. 1SR per level, +1 DC per level
– Reduce the CHA requirement on Epic Smite
– Give them a better epic feat selection, including great Charisma

Staran

I like to glow white.
It is easier than buying those teeth whitening kits.
And bleaching your clothes? I have adventuring to do!


Being a paladin resolves those issues for me.

Jimbobslimbob

Livegood118 said:

I think pure Paladins are one of the most gimped classes in NWN:

– Very few scaling abilities, apart from Lay on Hands, Turn Undead and Smite Evil
– More or less forced to take Champion of Torm subclass for feats because Paladin spellcasting is so lackluster and gives you no reason to want more levels (other than RP)
– Holy Avenger, the raison d'etre to play a Paladin, doesn't scale at all and will only ever dispel with DC-15 which becomes completely useless in the late game. It also gives 16 SR. Again, totally useless.
– Epic Smite has ridiculously high CHA requirements which more or less forces you in to a low AB smiter build or to do RDD shenanigans
– Not much use at all for bonus epic feats unless going the smite route

My suggestions would be:

– Make more of the Paladins' spells scale
– Make Holy Avenger Scale. 1SR per level, +1 DC per level
– Reduce the CHA requirement on Epic Smite
– Give them a better epic feat selection, including great Charisma

...and Epic Divine Might.

helmo1977

In fact, some classes could see some love. Paladin is just one of them. Rogues are also underpowered, imo, as they need a henchman to help them. The problem is that as you dont control henchmen, rogues are far less powerful than other classes.

In 3.0 cleric is by far the most powerful core class due to spell duration and some spell effects, especially at high levels. Of course, wizards can become powerful also, but only at high levels, and, even then, less powerful than clerics. The problem with using 3.0 rules is that the things that were clearly overpowered in 3.0 (that is why they did a 3.5 edition) wont be fixed.

MrDamage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xawGqRFLYcE

This guy nailed it. Substitute the moon for ‘playing a high level paladin’

Balkoth

I will point out that being a higher level Paladin DOES make your own buffs harder to dispel (especially Divine Favor, which gives you more AB and damage than a Fighter). And makes spells like Prayer last longer.

dTd

Well, if we're going to talk about classes that need something, ranger should have barkskin as well as some archery feats and possibly a gimped awaken. Bard should definitely have flameweapon and shouldn't bards be getting 6 skill points, they are support usually?

Livegood118

I agree with most of what people have said in the thread.

At least Rogues have an ability that has a big impact and scales fairy consistently in to really high levels (Sneak Attack). It doesn't have stupid stat reqs either. They do run in to issues with the sheer number of sneak attack immune enemies though, which to be fair to rogues is completely ridiculous in 3E. I think half damage sneak attacks or 1/3 damage sneak attacks would be more reasonable against these opponents.

So many of the core classes need a buff.

Nytelock

Livegood118 said:

I agree with most of what people have said in the thread.

At least Rogues have an ability that has a big impact and scales fairy consistently in to really high levels (Sneak Attack). It doesn't have stupid stat reqs either. They do run in to issues with the sheer number of sneak attack immune enemies though, which to be fair to rogues is completely ridiculous in 3E. I think half damage sneak attacks or 1/3 damage sneak attacks would be more reasonable against these opponents.

So many of the core classes need a buff.

Or go the NWN2 route and add Epic Precision as a feat.

"You deal halved sneak attack damage against creatures that are normally immune to sneak attacks."

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_Precision

Jimbobslimbob

Nytelock said:

Livegood118 said:

I agree with most of what people have said in the thread.

At least Rogues have an ability that has a big impact and scales fairy consistently in to really high levels (Sneak Attack). It doesn't have stupid stat reqs either. They do run in to issues with the sheer number of sneak attack immune enemies though, which to be fair to rogues is completely ridiculous in 3E. I think half damage sneak attacks or 1/3 damage sneak attacks would be more reasonable against these opponents.

So many of the core classes need a buff.

Or go the NWN2 route and add Epic Precision as a feat.

"You deal halved sneak attack damage against creatures that are normally immune to sneak attacks."

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Epic_Precision

Agreed, although if I remember correctly, this was a class feature in 3e, where you could sacrifice trap detection for this ability. Either way, having it as an "Epic" feat always bothered me in NWN 2 - it should be selectable at any level since sneak/crit immune's are everywhere pre-20 as well.

Libertyisback

just play max level 20 in team pvp as paladin. It is a much more challenging and better max level for all characters to play at.

sriep

Paladins are great if you want to roleplay a Paladin.

Also, make a nice challenge if you are finding other classes too easy. If you are playing in an undead rich environment they are fairly strong.