Whoa, the Stalker gets his x2 backstab from level 1?

Schneidend

Looking over the manual and saw that the Stalker's backstab reads:
"May use Backstab ability, although for a lower damage multiplier than Thieves:
o Level 1-8: x2
o Level 9-16: x3
o Level 17+: x4"

Is it me, or is this awesome? A typo, perhaps?

Tanthalas

No, it was actually always like that.

Millardkillmoore

It's probably so that there is actually a reason to play a Stalker in BG1. Without that backstab ability, they wouldn't get many abilities, but would be stuck with the disadvantage all the way through.

wissenschaft

I do love playing my Stalker for a reason.

Millardkillmoore

Tanthalas said:

No, it was actually always like that.

I thought the old backstab was:

1-8: x1
9-16: x2
17+: x3

Is that manual misprinted or did the multiplier go up?

Tanthalas

@Millardkillmoore

The old manual and kit description were wrong. The Stalker always got x2 backstab from level 1.

elminster

Tanthalas is right.

Mungri

Cool I never knew that. Has the description been fixed for BG:EE?

Also will we be able to dual stalkers into backstabbing clerics with druid spells?

Tanthalas

Its been fixed and probably.

sandmanCCL

I am actually okay if they decide to leave it so stalkers and archers can't dual-class. The only weapon stalkers could utilize to backstab with is clubs or quarterstaves, and an archer no longer able to use bows would be pointless.

elminster

sandmanCCL said:

I am actually okay if they decide to leave it so stalkers and archers can't dual-class. The only weapon stalkers could utilize to backstab with is clubs or quarterstaves, and an archer no longer able to use bows would be pointless.

Somehow backstabing with a club seems much more odd then even backstabbing with a staff. Its more like back-crushing! (putting aside the lack of enchanted clubs generally available)

Mungri

sandmanCCL said:

I am actually okay if they decide to leave it so stalkers and archers can't dual-class. The only weapon stalkers could utilize to backstab with is clubs or quarterstaves, and an archer no longer able to use bows would be pointless.

No its not pointless. Staves are the best backstab weapons in both BG1 + 2. Archer bonuses also apply to slings, though they can only have 2 proficiency points, allowing you to specify a stronger front or backline cleric for melee or ranged with druid spells on top as opposed to a plain Ranger > Cleric. You can also easily mod proficiencies to allow Archers to put 5 points into slings if you want, but I found modding dual class limitations on these kits to be incredibly buggy.

Stalker > Cleric also gets haste and a few other nifty spells added to their spellbook, which is yummy.

Cheesebelly

sandmanCCL said:

I am actually okay if they decide to leave it so stalkers and archers can't dual-class. The only weapon stalkers could utilize to backstab with is clubs or quarterstaves, and an archer no longer able to use bows would be pointless.

They would be able to use slings and bullets, to put it bluntly! HA! ...
...
err, see what I did there? An Archer not using a bow is a pointless arrow... but an archer using slings in and its blunt bullets...
OK bullets are missile, but STILL!

The_New_Romance

I saw it when it had about 350. I feel nerdy now.

Schneidend

I kind of feel silly for never trying the Stalker if they actually had Backstab at x2 from Day One. Well, I'll certainly rectify that in my Black Pits run!

Oxford_Guy

Tanthalas said:

@Millardkillmoore

The old manual and kit description were wrong. The Stalker always got x2 backstab from level 1.

I didn't know that! Makes the Stalker look *much* more interesting to me...

Oxford_Guy

Tanthalas said:

@Millardkillmoore

The old manual and kit description were wrong. The Stalker always got x2 backstab from level 1.

So what's the correct backstab progression for Stalkers now then? Is it:

1-8: x2
9-16: x3
17+: x4

or

1-16: x2
17+: x3

?

Oxford_Guy

Oxford_Guy said:

Tanthalas said:

@Millardkillmoore

The old manual and kit description were wrong. The Stalker always got x2 backstab from level 1.

So what's the correct backstab progression for Stalkers now then? Is it:

1-8: x2
9-16: x3
17+: x4

or

1-16: x2
17+: x3

?

Sorry, just re-read the first post, doh!

Jean_Luc

What would be the point of having backstab x1? If there is to be backstabbing it has to be at least x2.

Why would anyone bother to go through the backstabbing process just to do normal damage, why would such a thing as backstab x1 even exist?

Oxford_Guy

Jean_Luc said:

What would be the point of having backstab x1? If there is to be backstabbing it has to be at least x2.

Why would anyone bother to go through the backstabbing process just to do normal damage, why would such a thing as backstab x1 even exist?

Well it originally looked like Stalkers only got x2 backstab at higher levels, and only x1 initially

TJ_Hooker

Jean_Luc said:

What would be the point of having backstab x1? If there is to be backstabbing it has to be at least x2.

Why would anyone bother to go through the backstabbing process just to do normal damage, why would such a thing as backstab x1 even exist?

I found it a bit weird too, but figured it meant that, while you don't gain any damage bonus, you'd at least gain the +4 bonus to attack that thieves get when attacking from shadows.

Which makes me curious. Does anyone know if the bonus to attacking from invisibilty is something only thieves get? Or if I cast invisibility on a fighter, and have them attack someone, would they get a bonus to hit on their first strike too?

Dee

In the vanilla game, Backstab was written as x1 to start, indicating that it was x1 extra damage.

We changed it to x2 to reflect that it's a multiplier. So nothing's changed in the mechanics; it's just written out differently now.

The bonus for attacking an invisible opponent is the same whether you're a thief or a wizard.

Oxford_Guy

Aosaw said:

In the vanilla game, Backstab was written as x1 to start, indicating that it was x1 extra damage.

We changed it to x2 to reflect that it's a multiplier. So nothing's changed in the mechanics; it's just written out differently now.

The bonus for attacking an invisible opponent is the same whether you're a thief or a wizard.

Yes, even non-Stalker Ranger can get the +4 THAC0 bonus when attacking from stealth (magic or otherwise). I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think you get the +4THAC0 bonus (nor ability to backstab) when attacking from Sanctuary, unless also stealthed.