Suggested Archer Builds?

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

I just recently got this game and after a little experimenting, I find that I want to do an archer.

It was easy enough to decide on being an elf, and I've found oddly that Elf Archers roll extremely high on stats, holding my record rolls in both Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 at 97 and 95, the 97 having been hilariously my very first character. Where I'm unsure is everything else, because every time I start, the archer just feels underwhelming. I spec to grandmaster in longbows right off the bat, but then have to dredge to the assassin near the end of the tutorial just to get one, and that usually involves a lot of not fun gameplay watching my character miss again, and again, and again. I considered going for shortbows, but that Comp Longbow has that nice damage bonus and I feel an archer should hit hard and relatively fast. I saw something mentioning that late game the only viable option is crossbows, is that true? If so I'll just scrap any plans of playing an archer and maybe try that Dwarven Defender I made that got a 00 strength roll.

Also I returned Baldur's Gate 1, so no I can't start there and work forward, I tried to play it twice, both times got effortlessly killed by the guy outside that inn who casts Horror on you every time, and decided if the games not going to do anything to inform me of wtf I'm expected to do, it's not worth my time or money. So everything should be purely based on starting from BG2.

booinyoureyes

Keep in mind that if you are meleeing with someone while using a bow you get a -4 penalty to your hit rolls.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

booinyoureyes said:

Keep in mind that if you are meleeing with someone while using a bow you get a -4 penalty to your hit rolls.

I didn't realize you could melee with a bow. I usually just charge the party in and let my archer and mages do their thing from range.

joluv

Shortbows are a significantly better choice than longbows in BG2 because there are some really nice magic ones available, including one early in the game that gives you an extra attack per round. They are viable throughout the game.

If you still want to stick with longbows, you can pick one up almost immediately in the room with the Sewage Golem.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

joluv said:

Shortbows are a significantly better choice than longbows in BG2 because there are some really nice magic ones available, including one early in the game that gives you an extra attack per round. They are viable throughout the game.

If you still want to stick with longbows, you can pick one up almost immediately in the room with the Sewage Golem.

I'll have to look into that, I'd rather not look up secret weapons and encounter stuff a bit more naturally but I am curious, are there no useful enchanted longbows? Or is that all late game?

Borek

The issue with most missile weapons is that you are limited with what you can damage based on the Ammunition that can be loaded. It just so happens that shortbow and sling have weapons that produce their own ammunition, which counts as +3 to +5 depending on the weapon. You can load in standard ammo if desired, but it is definitely worth considering one of these specs purely for the weapons.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

Borek said:

The issue with most missile weapons is that you are limited with what you can damage based on the Ammunition that can be loaded. It just so happens that shortbow and sling have weapons that produce their own ammunition, which counts as +3 to +5 depending on the weapon. You can load in standard ammo if desired, but it is definitely worth considering one of these specs purely for the weapons.

So despite the comp longbow getting that +1/+2 (I can't recall which), you're just better off with a shortbow due to the late game availability of ammo that can be used to fight high level bosses or monsters?

a bit of a tangent, but DAMN that is some terrible game design. I really am starting to see areas where these games get off just by nostalgia and having been better than other games of the time. But for a game like this to, without any warning make longbows useless late game is really dumb. If I'd never gone to these forums, I'd have struggled my way forward and probably hit an insurmountable wall that could not be crossed by the nature of my characters spec's. There should be viable options for ALL areas of the game in every, single weapon type. No mods required.

Borek

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies said:

Borek said:

The issue with most missile weapons is that you are limited with what you can damage based on the Ammunition that can be loaded. It just so happens that shortbow and sling have weapons that produce their own ammunition, which counts as +3 to +5 depending on the weapon. You can load in standard ammo if desired, but it is definitely worth considering one of these specs purely for the weapons.

So despite the comp longbow getting that +1/+2 (I can't recall which), you're just better off with a shortbow due to the late game availability of ammo that can be used to fight high level bosses or monsters?

a bit of a tangent, but DAMN that is some terrible game design. I really am starting to see areas where these games get off just by nostalgia and having been better than other games of the time. But for a game like this to, without any warning make longbows useless late game is really dumb. If I'd never gone to these forums, I'd have struggled my way forward and probably hit an insurmountable wall that could not be crossed by the nature of my characters spec's. There should be viable options for ALL areas of the game in every, single weapon type. No mods required.

You can find +3 ammo in ToB, but by and large you are limited to +2 in SoA, so yeah the special weapons that create their own ammo are super useful at times just to hit stuff. Of course the game doesn't have a huge number of creatures that need +3 or greater, but since an Archer is limited to 1 pip in non-missile weapons (you can learn greater whirlwind late game) it can be nice to be able to use a bow for a few more encounters than would otherwise be unable to be damaged with traditional ammo, there will still be a few where you need to use a melee weapon.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

Borek said:

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies said:

Borek said:

The issue with most missile weapons is that you are limited with what you can damage based on the Ammunition that can be loaded. It just so happens that shortbow and sling have weapons that produce their own ammunition, which counts as +3 to +5 depending on the weapon. You can load in standard ammo if desired, but it is definitely worth considering one of these specs purely for the weapons.

So despite the comp longbow getting that +1/+2 (I can't recall which), you're just better off with a shortbow due to the late game availability of ammo that can be used to fight high level bosses or monsters?

a bit of a tangent, but DAMN that is some terrible game design. I really am starting to see areas where these games get off just by nostalgia and having been better than other games of the time. But for a game like this to, without any warning make longbows useless late game is really dumb. If I'd never gone to these forums, I'd have struggled my way forward and probably hit an insurmountable wall that could not be crossed by the nature of my characters spec's. There should be viable options for ALL areas of the game in every, single weapon type. No mods required.

You can find +3 ammo in ToB, but by and large you are limited to +2 in SoA, so yeah the special weapons that create their own ammo are super useful at times just to hit stuff. Of course the game doesn't have a huge number of creatures that need +3 or greater, but since an Archer is limited to 1 pip in non-missile weapons (you can learn greater whirlwind late game) it can be nice to be able to use a bow for a few more encounters than would otherwise be unable to be damaged with traditional ammo, there will still be a few where you need to use a melee weapon.

Alright well thanks for that. When you say make their own ammo, do you mean like every day a few arrows just appear in your inventory, or are they all magic and just shoot infinitely with no need to actually equip ammo?

and if one is so essential, what's the name of the bow with the best late game utility and effectiveness? And to ensure minimal spoilers, maybe the related quest name too?

Borek

Shortbow of Gesen creates it's own ammo that counts as +4 and is unlimited, you just use it without having standard ammo loaded and it defaults to it's special magical arrows.

Firetooth is a Xbow that creates it's own +4 bolts much the same way as above. Added bonus is in ToB it can be further upgraded to +5!

Sling of Everard creates it's own sling bullets that count as +5 for what they can hit.

Tansheron's Bow is available sooner than Gesen's and shoots +3 unlimited special arrows.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

Borek said:

Shortbow of Gesen creates it's own ammo that counts as +4 and is unlimited, you just use it without having standard ammo loaded and it defaults to it's special magical arrows.

Firetooth is a Xbow that creates it's own +4 bolts much the same way as above. Added bonus is in ToB it can be further upgraded to +5!

Sling of Everard creates it's own sling bullets that count as +5 for what they can hit.

Tansheron's Bow is available sooner than Gesen's and shoots +3 unlimited special arrows.

Anything else you think I should be aware of?

Due to my archers being GM in longbows I'm doing a fresh one, so far I rolled a 95 for stats, and I allocated them thusly:
Str: 16
Dex: 19
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 14
Chr: 18

Would you change anything? I like rolling my party leader high in charisma, since their the leader and roleplay wise, should be the one doing the convincing.

Also, say I went 18 strength, would the extra two levels still affect carry weight?

Borek

Well, there is the Ring of Human Influence that sets your charisma to 18, available from the Circus Tent quest which can be done as soon as you get out of Irenicus' Jail, so you could drop charisma and rely on the ring when you trade. That should let you improve a few other stats. There's a couple of Belts of Giant Strength in the game, the 1st of which can be bought from the Adventurers Mart, so that's another stat that could potentially be sacrificed.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

Borek said:

Well, there is the Ring of Human Influence that sets your charisma to 18, available from the Circus Tent quest which can be done as soon as you get out of Irenicus' Jail, so you could drop charisma and rely on the ring when you trade. That should let you improve a few other stats. There's a couple of Belts of Giant Strength in the game, the 1st of which can be bought from the Adventurers Mart, so that's another stat that could potentially be sacrificed.

What I'm asking is does 18 str do anything or is it a wasted stat on a non-fighter?

Also, gotta vent...


I SKIPPED A FREAKIN 97 x.x been rolling for a half hour since just begging to get it again, had never seen above 95 roll in BG2 and now I hate myself for tapping a tad too rapidly x.x

Literally facepalmed so hard the smack was louder than my music...

Borek

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies said:

Borek said:

Well, there is the Ring of Human Influence that sets your charisma to 18, available from the Circus Tent quest which can be done as soon as you get out of Irenicus' Jail, so you could drop charisma and rely on the ring when you trade. That should let you improve a few other stats. There's a couple of Belts of Giant Strength in the game, the 1st of which can be bought from the Adventurers Mart, so that's another stat that could potentially be sacrificed.

What I'm asking is does 18 str do anything or is it a wasted stat on a non-fighter?

Also, gotta vent...


I SKIPPED A FREAKIN 97 x.x been rolling for a half hour since just begging to get it again, had never seen above 95 roll in BG2 and now I hate myself for tapping a tad too rapidly x.x

Literally facepalmed so hard the smack was louder than my music...

Archers count as a Fighter, but all classes gain the benefit of Str for carrying capacity. You should gain at least 1 point of Strength during your adventures in game, there's also potions of Giant Str for a temporary boost, Belts to set you to 19 or higher, also gloves that set to 18/100, plus being an archer you'll be wanting to use missile weapons 99% of the time. I wouldn't worry too much about getting a high roll.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

Funny enough I just hit 97 again, RIGHT AFTER posting that lol. I guess the universe loves to tease me.

Also funny, my Strength rolled a 18/01... thanks game

But that's good to know, I figured fighter was melee focused builds only.

So revised my stats are;
Str: 16
Dex: 19
Con: 16
Int: 18
Wis: 18
Chr: 10
Although part of me is thinking to go 14/14 in Int and Wis and just roll the 18 chr so I don't need to carry a ring. I can't imagine those stats being particularly useful on an archer. I'm going to GM shortbows, should I put the last slot to the fighting style you automatically get, or do any of the fighting styles affect bows in a positive way?

Borek

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies said:

Funny enough I just hit 97 again, RIGHT AFTER posting that lol. I guess the universe loves to tease me.

Also funny, my Strength rolled a 18/01... thanks game

But that's good to know, I figured fighter was melee focused builds only.

So revised my stats are;
Str: 16
Dex: 19
Con: 16
Int: 18
Wis: 18
Chr: 10
Although part of me is thinking to go 14/14 in Int and Wis and just roll the 18 chr so I don't need to carry a ring. I can't imagine those stats being particularly useful on an archer. I'm going to GM shortbows, should I put the last slot to the fighting style you automatically get, or do any of the fighting styles affect bows in a positive way?

As a fighter class you will also benefit from Con higher than 16, the max for an Elf to start with is 17, it's basically 1 more hit point per level from 1 to 9th, plus again you should gain at least +1 during the game. Int and Wisdom only matter for spell casters, so i'd say you may as well get 18 Str, 17 con, and shave a little from Int and/or Wisdom, you could also go with 18 natural charisma, it's personal choice really.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

And should I put the 6th pip to master two weapon fighting style, or go with a different style? I'm thinking, mastering two weapon would be better than just being proficient elsewhere.

Borek

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies said:

And should I put the 6th pip to master two weapon fighting style, or go with a different style? I'm thinking, mastering two weapon would be better than just being proficient elsewhere.

Well, there are some creatures with immunity or resistance to certain damage types, so i'd say you want something that deals Crushing damage, Slashing damage and your arrows/bolts will deal missile/piercing, that way you cover all your bases. Exactly what weapons you want to put pips in is down to choice, getting the 3rd pip in 2 weapon fighting isn't a huge deal, just makes your penalty to using the offhand which is only ever generating 1 attack per round a little better. Probably more useful to pick a weapon than get the 3rd pip since melee combat is not going to be your preferred option.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

Borek said:

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies said:

And should I put the 6th pip to master two weapon fighting style, or go with a different style? I'm thinking, mastering two weapon would be better than just being proficient elsewhere.

Well, there are some creatures with immunity or resistance to certain damage types, so i'd say you want something that deals Crushing damage, Slashing damage and your arrows/bolts will deal missile/piercing, that way you cover all your bases. Exactly what weapons you want to put pips in is down to choice, getting the 3rd pip in 2 weapon fighting isn't a huge deal, just makes your penalty to using the offhand which is only ever generating 1 attack per round a little better. Probably more useful to pick a weapon than get the 3rd pip since melee combat is not going to be your preferred option.

Considering I'm running a full party, could I not just have one of my companions dedicate to crushing weapons? I ended up going with mastery because I felt like it'd be too easy to accidentally close the app and screw myself (Playing on a phone).

Also I chose Vampires as the racial enemy, actually just discovered that list had a scroll bar... But from the posts I've glanced over, vampires seem to be a regular threat, so I figured they'd be a good choice to get a bonus against.

Borek

Yup, you can easily rely on companions for certain damage types, but it's nice to have the option to hit everything you fight with the main character.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

Borek said:

Yup, you can easily rely on companions for certain damage types, but it's nice to have the option to hit everything you fight with the main character.

Alright well thanks a ton, I'm feeling good about this character.

I've only so far really completed Irenicus's dungeon with a sorcerer, any tips for killing the guy in the black armor without a overpowered mage? Also those nymphs say to get their acorns off a certain dude, I ran into him on my first playthrough but no matter how hard I look I can't seem to find him again, where is he hiding?

Borek

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies said:

Borek said:

Yup, you can easily rely on companions for certain damage types, but it's nice to have the option to hit everything you fight with the main character.

Alright well thanks a ton, I'm feeling good about this character.

I've only so far really completed Irenicus's dungeon with a sorcerer, any tips for killing the guy in the black armor without a overpowered mage? Also those nymphs say to get their acorns off a certain dude, I ran into him on my first playthrough but no matter how hard I look I can't seem to find him again, where is he hiding?

The Demon with the Black Armour is pretty tough, you can usually take him out in melee but it can be rough and you may need to collect some potions before taking him out. The guy with the Acorns should be in the large room before the Demon in Black, he has a mage buddy plus some sling and xbow using friends so it can be nasty if you let the mage cast too many spells.

Chronicler

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies said:

joluv said:

Shortbows are a significantly better choice than longbows in BG2 because there are some really nice magic ones available, including one early in the game that gives you an extra attack per round. They are viable throughout the game.

If you still want to stick with longbows, you can pick one up almost immediately in the room with the Sewage Golem.

I'll have to look into that, I'd rather not look up secret weapons and encounter stuff a bit more naturally but I am curious, are there no useful enchanted longbows? Or is that all late game?

In addition to what others have said, longbows tend to be enchanted with extravagant bonuses to your hit rate.

The thing is, as an archer your hit rate is gonna be aces no matter what weapon you use. Hitting things isn't gonna be a problem.

SomeSort

Honestly, the ammo-generating bows are fairly overrated. It's true that other than the magical bows that create your own ammo, archers largely won't be able to hit enemies that require +3 or better weapons... but those enemies are extremely, extremely rare. Also, in the original game, bows that created their own ammo could also equip real ammo and the two ammos would stack. So if the bow is firing magic arrows that deal 1d6 damage, and you equip physical arrows that deal 1d6 damage, suddenly you're doing 2d6 per shot, which is a huge damage boost. That exploit has long been patched, so a lot of the old love you'll hear for Firetooth crossbow is outdated. It no longer outclasses every other launcher in the game.

The key to killing as an archer is stacking more damage per shot or more shots per round. Crossbows have the best ammo for dealing extra damage per shot, but crossbows are stuck at 1 attack per round, so most crossbows suck. Shortbows and Longbows don't get as much damage per shot, but they both naturally get 2 attacks per round. Because the archer kit bonus will already be stacking a lot of damage per shot, extra attacks per round are typically a higher priority.

Arguably the best bow/crossbow in the game is Tuigan Shortbow, which is available in one of the very first places you visit after escaping Irenicus' dungeon and which an archer can equip and just leave untouched for the entire rest of the saga. What makes it so great is it gets an extra attack per round by default, so three (plus your bonus attack from grandmastery, plus your bonus attack from leveling up, so five attacks per round once you reach level 13).

For the most minimal-spoiler advice on finding it, explore the Copper Coronet very thoroughly when you first get there. You can't miss it. In addition, since Tuigan Shortbow is a Shortbow, you can also get Gesen Shortbow later in the game to hit the enemies that Tuigan can't. Shortbow proficiency is really the only one you need.

For the rest of your proficiency points, I like to get a backup weapon in case I get cornered in melee range. Quarterstaves are actually pretty solid and there's not much competition for them among NPCs. The same is true of Halberds. Get whatever, as you'll just be firing a shortbow 99% of the time.

After that, the class kind of plays itself. Load up on arrows, (there's a quiver with unlimited ammunition on the top floor of Watcher's Keep that is a huge quality-of-life improvement for the Archer, IMO). Activate Called Shot against bosses. Just keep shooting. The formulaic style of play is honestly perhaps the biggest criticism of the class, as it really just boils down to see enemy / shoot enemy.

Which makes it great for people like me who want to keep micromanagement to a minimum, honestly.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

SomeSort said:

Honestly, the ammo-generating bows are fairly overrated. It's true that other than the magical bows that create your own ammo, archers largely won't be able to hit enemies that require +3 or better weapons... but those enemies are extremely, extremely rare. Also, in the original game, bows that created their own ammo could also equip real ammo and the two ammos would stack. So if the bow is firing magic arrows that deal 1d6 damage, and you equip physical arrows that deal 1d6 damage, suddenly you're doing 2d6 per shot, which is a huge damage boost. That exploit has long been patched, so a lot of the old love you'll hear for Firetooth crossbow is outdated. It no longer outclasses every other launcher in the game.

The key to killing as an archer is stacking more damage per shot or more shots per round. Crossbows have the best ammo for dealing extra damage per shot, but crossbows are stuck at 1 attack per round, so most crossbows suck. Shortbows and Longbows don't get as much damage per shot, but they both naturally get 2 attacks per round. Because the archer kit bonus will already be stacking a lot of damage per shot, extra attacks per round are typically a higher priority.

Arguably the best bow/crossbow in the game is Tuigan Shortbow, which is available in one of the very first places you visit after escaping Irenicus' dungeon and which an archer can equip and just leave untouched for the entire rest of the saga. What makes it so great is it gets an extra attack per round by default, so three (plus your bonus attack from grandmastery, plus your bonus attack from leveling up, so five attacks per round once you reach level 13).

For the most minimal-spoiler advice on finding it, explore the Copper Coronet very thoroughly when you first get there. You can't miss it. In addition, since Tuigan Shortbow is a Shortbow, you can also get Gesen Shortbow later in the game to hit the enemies that Tuigan can't. Shortbow proficiency is really the only one you need.

For the rest of your proficiency points, I like to get a backup weapon in case I get cornered in melee range. Quarterstaves are actually pretty solid and there's not much competition for them among NPCs. The same is true of Halberds. Get whatever, as you'll just be firing a shortbow 99% of the time.

After that, the class kind of plays itself. Load up on arrows, (there's a quiver with unlimited ammunition on the top floor of Watcher's Keep that is a huge quality-of-life improvement for the Archer, IMO). Activate Called Shot against bosses. Just keep shooting. The formulaic style of play is honestly perhaps the biggest criticism of the class, as it really just boils down to see enemy / shoot enemy.

Which makes it great for people like me who want to keep micromanagement to a minimum, honestly.

That's actually really helpful, I was just about to leave the Coronet when I saved and got off, but most important is that called shot tip. I haven't even tried it yet and it sound good but also a bit underwhelming.

I don't mind a much more simplified playstyle, it's my first playthrough other than doing the tutorial with a few different classes, and I really didn't want to be like all those videos I see where they walk into a boss room, and cast a buff, and another buff, and another, and another and another and another twelve more to boot before ANYTHING HAPPENS. It just looks so boring because when the fight actually happens they crush without taking damage and I'm like "Gee, that sure was an intense fight /s". By contrast, I fought that guy in the Coronet Who gets in your face, and I landed my killing shot with 3 HP left, and I'd genuinely been "Oh shit'ing" since like half way through the fight. It actually was pretty intense not knowing if I'd get the winning roll, that was a fun fight.

It's kind of why I decided not to go with a Sorcerer. It was soooo easy, I killed everything in the whole intro and never had a threat, I bet even as a noob, I could solo the beginning dungeon with some crafty spell placement (I.e. Horror > Kill anything not running away > kill the rest).

Chronicler

SomeSort said:

Honestly, the ammo-generating bows are fairly overrated. It's true that other than the magical bows that create your own ammo, archers largely won't be able to hit enemies that require +3 or better weapons... but those enemies are extremely, extremely rare. Also, in the original game, bows that created their own ammo could also equip real ammo and the two ammos would stack. So if the bow is firing magic arrows that deal 1d6 damage, and you equip physical arrows that deal 1d6 damage, suddenly you're doing 2d6 per shot, which is a huge damage boost. That exploit has long been patched, so a lot of the old love you'll hear for Firetooth crossbow is outdated. It no longer outclasses every other launcher in the game.

The key to killing as an archer is stacking more damage per shot or more shots per round. Crossbows have the best ammo for dealing extra damage per shot, but crossbows are stuck at 1 attack per round, so most crossbows suck. Shortbows and Longbows don't get as much damage per shot, but they both naturally get 2 attacks per round. Because the archer kit bonus will already be stacking a lot of damage per shot, extra attacks per round are typically a higher priority.

Arguably the best bow/crossbow in the game is Tuigan Shortbow, which is available in one of the very first places you visit after escaping Irenicus' dungeon and which an archer can equip and just leave untouched for the entire rest of the saga. What makes it so great is it gets an extra attack per round by default, so three (plus your bonus attack from grandmastery, plus your bonus attack from leveling up, so five attacks per round once you reach level 13).

For the most minimal-spoiler advice on finding it, explore the Copper Coronet very thoroughly when you first get there. You can't miss it. In addition, since Tuigan Shortbow is a Shortbow, you can also get Gesen Shortbow later in the game to hit the enemies that Tuigan can't. Shortbow proficiency is really the only one you need.

For the rest of your proficiency points, I like to get a backup weapon in case I get cornered in melee range. Quarterstaves are actually pretty solid and there's not much competition for them among NPCs. The same is true of Halberds. Get whatever, as you'll just be firing a shortbow 99% of the time.

After that, the class kind of plays itself. Load up on arrows, (there's a quiver with unlimited ammunition on the top floor of Watcher's Keep that is a huge quality-of-life improvement for the Archer, IMO). Activate Called Shot against bosses. Just keep shooting. The formulaic style of play is honestly perhaps the biggest criticism of the class, as it really just boils down to see enemy / shoot enemy.

Which makes it great for people like me who want to keep micromanagement to a minimum, honestly.

So if I wanted to use crossbows which crossbow do you think I should be using when Firetooth isn't needed?

tbone1

Every time I see this thread I always want to interject quotes from the tv show of the same name.

One issue I have with IE games, and it’s a minor one, is that one big advantage of longbows over shortbows is negate by the game engine/rules: range. That is huge in PnP, at least in V1 and V2.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

tbone1 said:

Every time I see this thread I always want to interject quotes from the tv show of the same name.

One issue I have with IE games, and it’s a minor one, is that one big advantage of longbows over shortbows is negate by the game engine/rules: range. That is huge in PnP, at least in V1 and V2.

Idk, it wouldn't be unrealistic to have them do more damage across the board, and if there were good longbows that offered similar power to some of the magical shortbows I'd definitely still play a longbow archer.

tbone1

Not damage, distance. The longbow (regular and composite) had the longest ranges in the PnP games, and by a good margin. IIRC, it was enough to give you one or two more attacks before a charging enemy closed, no small thing particularly at low levels. But the fog of war, or whatever it’s called, in the IE games means that all missile weapons besides darts now have the same range.

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies

tbone1 said:

Not damage, distance. The longbow (regular and composite) had the longest ranges in the PnP games, and by a good margin. IIRC, it was enough to give you one or two more attacks before a charging enemy closed, no small thing particularly at low levels. But the fog of war, or whatever it’s called, in the IE games means that all missile weapons besides darts now have the same range.

True but that seems a limitation of the game engine, and there's a very clear lack of effort to make longbows viable.

SomeSort

ABadCaseOfTheFunzies said:

That's actually really helpful, I was just about to leave the Coronet when I saved and got off, but most important is that called shot tip. I haven't even tried it yet and it sound good but also a bit underwhelming.

I don't mind a much more simplified playstyle, it's my first playthrough other than doing the tutorial with a few different classes, and I really didn't want to be like all those videos I see where they walk into a boss room, and cast a buff, and another buff, and another, and another and another and another twelve more to boot before ANYTHING HAPPENS. It just looks so boring because when the fight actually happens they crush without taking damage and I'm like "Gee, that sure was an intense fight /s". By contrast, I fought that guy in the Coronet Who gets in your face, and I landed my killing shot with 3 HP left, and I'd genuinely been "Oh shit'ing" since like half way through the fight. It actually was pretty intense not knowing if I'd get the winning roll, that was a fun fight.

It's kind of why I decided not to go with a Sorcerer. It was soooo easy, I killed everything in the whole intro and never had a threat, I bet even as a noob, I could solo the beginning dungeon with some crafty spell placement (I.e. Horror > Kill anything not running away > kill the rest).

Called Shot is underwhelming in terms of damage, but it's a superlative debuff. Remember: every effect stacks on every hit, Archers have some of the best THACO values which means every attack hits, and late-game short bow archers will attack 10 times per round. So that's -10 strength, -10 THACO, and (most importantly), -10 save vs. spells after a round of sustained attacks. Your mages will love you when all of their spells start sticking.

Chronicler said:

So if I wanted to use crossbows which crossbow do you think I should be using when Firetooth isn't needed?

Again, it's all about attacks per round, so the Light Crossbow of Speed (+1 attack per round) is phenomenal, and it's also available in the copper coronet. Plus Firetooth is still a fine end-game weapon probably on par or close to Gesen's and Tuigan, it's just no longer the hands-down king. I'd say those three are the top three options for an end-game archer. (Outside of some weird sling shenanigans for huge 1-round spike damage.)