Returning player questions
Hey all
I've been googling around a bit and it's sort of tough to find answers to this stuff without having to trawl through endless forum threads, so I'm hoping some of you helpful folks won't mind giving me some thoughts!
So I played the games yeeeeaars ago (although mainly BG2) and tried a bunch of classes back then, though it was with precious little thought and planning. I never played all the way through the saga with one character, and I also never finished ToB (barely touched it) so I'm trying to get started with a full play-through of all now, going for mostly "canon" party members for this run to get it out of my system.
The problem is I'm getting stuck in my age old loop of struggling to decide what to pick as a "CHARNAME" class so I'm hoping going to share my thoughts and hopefully through some discussion, settle on something! I'm not interested in powergaming or min/maxing as such but I also don't want to end up with a redundant character. I'm probably going to run with Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir and Imoen in BG1 (always felt canon to me) and in BG2 go with Minsc, Jaheira, Jan, Aeirie and Keldorn or Mazzy until Imoen comes back, then I'll ditch Jan.
So here are the choices I'm struggling with:
Mage/Sorcerer - Sorcerer kind of appeals more from the RP perspective since I imagine CHARNAME as a bit of a rebel, skipping lessons etc due it magic coming naturally.
I never played pure magic before, so this is appealing as something new, however on my small forays into BGEE it seems like it may get a little annoying and somewhat boring if I end up running out of spells in dungeons etc and have to constantly rest, or find myself useless if that is not an option. Is that something that is an issue or is running out of spells not too much of a problem?
Paladin - This appeals to me as a RP choice especially, because of the whole hero aspect of it and fits with the whole martial/divine population of Candlekeep so it could definitely work as a CHARNAME class. What is stopping me here is that I'm also probably going to take Keldorn so I don't know if I want to have two paladins. Having said that though, I have played through SoA as an inquisitor before though and kind of found myself getting a little bit bored, due to always being able to faceroll tough mage fights so easily so a solution to this issue could be to ditch Keldorn in favour of Mazzy and go for a cavalier or undead hunter that can grab Carsomyr or the bastard sword. Then I'm stuck between choosing the UH for a more widely useful bonus against more common enemies, or cavalier for a bonus against more rare, but arguably much tougher enemies (also has the more classic heroic knight feel to it). So for people who've played both, do you find that the +3 hit and damage makes a noticeable difference in either case or does it just not really matter that much?
Stalker - This is another that has good RP feel for me because again, the ranger feels like a good "hero" class, and getting to become the protector of the Umar Hills does feel kind of awesome. My reasoning for the CHARNAME class being that he would be always trying to sneak out of Candlekeep to explore the outdoors, and might go on hunting trips etc, as well as being trained to fight by the instructors. The question is though, is it any good or will I feel weaker compared to a paladin or mage/sorcerer?
Blade - This one always appealed to me because I could see myself actually being a bard if I lived in this sort of fantasy world as I am into martial arts as well as music and books etc.
On top of this, it also seems like they could be more fun and active to play that other classes, hanging back and casting spells, then when they run out, pop offensive spin and dive in. This class also brings up the levelling differences, because the paladins and stalker level slower don't they? Or just get capped sooner? Is this something that starts to matter much in ToB or would I not really notice it?Thanks for reading through this to anyone who did and thanks in advance for any thoughts!
5
Comments
Blades will also level up faster than any other class that isn't a thief, and reach a higher level by cap as well.
As far as comparing to the sorcerer or mage is concerned I have personally never run one so i wont go on a rant with an opinion on that lol
Hope this is helpful to you. Good luck with whatever class you chose
There are plenty of spell lists out there, though there are really only 1-3 "must haves" at each level, (maybe not even that if you have both Imoen and Aerie along, too), so feel free to go off script to grab some personal favorites, too.
In BG1, a mage's power is largely based on their ability to use WANDS. Wands of fire, wand of frost, wand of monster summoning, and more are plentiful, can be found early in your adventure, and are immensely powerful.
Back in the day, I used to eschew wands and other consumables because it didn't fit with my (RP) ideal that spell casters should only depend on their innate spell casting ability. Hogwash! A mage who doesn't use wands is like a fighter who doesn't equip a weapon. Embrace the wands! In BG1, that's the main source of your power, and your spell book is really more for situational encounters.
That said, wands do have finite charges, so unless you recharge them at stores (which some consider an exploit), you can't use them in literally every encounter. So to conserve resources, your mages will often need to hang back and pelt darts/slings/daggers while your fighters do most of the work. Personally, I'm OK with that, but some players prefer their CHARNAMEs to be front-liners who are involved in every fight and earn a huge % of the party kills/experience.
Soooo, now after some trials I'm stuck between Blade, Cavalier and Archer. I tried a stalker and it just felt like the backstab was not really useful often enough that I wanted to select my CHARNAME class on the strength of it. Cavalier over UH is basically for RP feels, blade is for jack of all trades fun, and archer because I still love the ranger idea and the do lots of damage.
Why is it so hard to choose???
The dual class human fighter->cleric works really well, too, but when dwarf is an option, all other options are wrong.
Conversly the multi will have better thaco and will continue to advance as both classes, and get more HLAs. Your also only likely to be a level or two behind at most, so the casting diference won't be massive. Personally, I much prefer multiclasses to duals.
Likewise, dual-class characters don't reach their full potential until their original class is re-activated, which could be quite late in the saga depending on when you dual-classed.
You need to take these things into consideration when comparing different classes. Arcane casters will be relatively weak in the early parts of the saga. If you don't plan to do a complete playthrough, or simply don't want to "suffer" through a long stretch of time with a relatively weak character, then perhaps you'd have more fun with a character with a more linear power progression.
The other option would be a fighter/thief, fighter/mage or fighter/cleric multi. This one could be a result of Gorion and the Candlekeep guards etc. training the PC up to be able to handle a variety of situations, preparing for a life on the road, knowing that fateful day would eventually come. Could maybe have shown an affinity with being a bit sneaky and dextrous, tinkering with things, a dedicated interest in studying, or a natural inclination (shock horror) towards a connection to the gods.
Also, to the above discussion about F/C duals and multis... Saying the multi is only slightly behind is... a bit disingenuous. While you are always only 1 level below from levels 1-10 (so a Cleric would be level 10 at the same time a F/C is level 9 Cleric), you then start trading at a 2 for 1 rate. A F/C dualling at level 9 hits his first level 7 Cleric spell at 1.7m experience: the F/C multi hits it at 2.7m. The Dual gets to the level 15 Animate Dead spike at 1.82m, and the multi hits it at the same time as his first HLAs come online. By 3m experience, the F/C dual is at max caster level, while the multi doesn't get there until 5.4m experience. Turn Undead is almost utterly useless for the multi as well, as the Dual allows a sufficiently leveled Cleric to destroy Vampires and at some point Liches as well, if I recall my end-game Anomen correctly.
While I agree that the F/C Multi is probably better at the final fight... there's a lot of gameplay between SoA and there to take into account.
@Neverused The F/C can detroy vampires with turn undead as well. Its only the liches that they miss out on.
I think I'm leaning towards the dual, mainly for the way it'll play out over the whole series. It'll just be a fighter for BG1 which I'm fine with, and I'm just getting more into the BG2 career change idea more when I think about it.
In practical terms it seems like the choice is either the dual being a better caster and the multi being a better fighter then? The multi getting all HLAs while the dual is stuck with the cleric's?
Now what about the kensai mage dual? Do they get right up to level 9 casting with the mage HLAs etc? And would this kind of play like a character that has lots of damage spells and can then buff up and wade into melee? Or time stop and go hack some baddies up for example? That could be fun...
From 0 EXP to 250k experience, the Multi is obviously ahead in Cleric casting by 8 levels. Pure Fighter is probably doing a bit more damage when fully buffed, otherwise the Multi is way ahead of the dual. Fighter duals at 250k exp, and is a level 1 Cleric.
From 250k to 500k experience, the Dual quickly catches back up in Cleric levels. At 500k, both are 9/9, though the Dual hasn't reclaimed the inactive levels yet.
At 700k experience, the Dual has its first lead: 9/10 versus 9/9, and the Dual has Grandmastery to the Multi's specialization. It never lets go of the Cleric advantage, so just going to focus on the Fighter differences now.
2.5m experience. The Multi hits level 13 Fighter, and ties up the APR. THAC0 is still similar due to Grandmastery. Differences start to become more obvious, as the Multi is at 13/13 (almost 13/14 for what it's worth), and the dual is 9/18.
3m experience. HLAs come up, and now the Multi is easily the better Fighter now. Well, outside of a mage's intervention: Whirlwind gets 10 APR, but the Dual gets 7 APR under improved haste, or 9 APR if he's dual wielding. Orrrr just uses Energy Blades and gets 9 APR anyways. Critical Hit, Smite and others pull the multi far ahead though.
3m - 8m: Multi's probably ahead in the Fighter department on all counts, while the Dual's far ahead in the Cleric department.
So the dual's competitive or ahead of the multi in terms of fighting capability until 3m, and then falls behind permanently, but takes the Cleric lead at 700k and never lets it go.
I'm not experienced with Kensage, so I'll let someone else answer that.
For dualing, the higher the dual the longer it takes to regain the inactive class. For experienced players it seems this doesn't bother them too much, but OMG is it a slog.
I think there is a tendency to sacrifice the enjoyment of the mid game for that promise of incredibly high power end game. But IMO, the end game with a party is OP anyway if you have done everything.
It's the "enjoyment" part I would try and maximise.
Especially when you are making a radical dual, say fighter/mage. You get used to being a good fighter, it's very frustrating to be so long without the first class, you start to feel a bit of a failure or as if you aren't getting anywhere.
What I'm suggesting is don't do the dual at too high a level.
I'm just starting out and trying to remember lots of bits and pieces of info and things I can get etc. like the ring outside of the Friendly Arm Inn and I seem to remember some warhammer you can grab in one of the zones? Is this still there? Was it ever there or am I inventing memories? Haha. Also are there any other useful items etc and quests I could easily miss but might want to do? (not including TotSC because I never played that one and want to play it blind the first time).
Thanks for all the help so far!
The Baldur's Gate Wiki is also worth a mention.