Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to make an order. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE, PST:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

How do y’all handle beholders without the shield of Balduran?

KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 708
I can honestly say I’ve *always* taken the easy way out when fighting beholders by leading the way with a character who has this shield equipped.

SirBatinceJuliusBorisov
«13

Comments

  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 484
    Nuke them from orbit and out of sight with mages. Fireballs, Cloudkills, the works. Or get higher level Skeleton warriors: they tend to do decently against a couple beholders.

    the_sexteinsemiticgodlolienJuliusBorisov
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 483
    edited May 5
    My tactics on LOB with SCS are much different than the tactics I used in the vanilla game. If you are going to face 2 or 3 powerful beholders then I would suggest improved haste on all fighters. Cast mass improved invisibility on your party. Summon Mordy swords and skeleton warriors because they cannot be confused or feared. Cast haste and mass invisibility on them as well. Have your summons lead the way in and then have your melee characters back them up. Always use mirror image and stoneskin if you have it. It's not a bad idea to use protection from evil and defensive harmony if you got them. I would use multiple spell immunity's if you have a FM or FMT melee character. Back that up with a spell shield.

    For the underdark hive personally, I use the tactics above against the drow and the mind flayers as well as the last 3 or 4 beholders. About 85% of the map I use hit and run tactics.

    I will cast mass invisibility on my party and let them stand around. My FMT will grab a stack of invisibility potions and two wands of cloud kill. I will basically run around the game pac man style, trying to gas them like spraying for a bug infestation while going invisible and waiting for the next opportunity to send another noxious cloud their way. After I clear out a good number of them I will lead my character back to the party and save just in case something happens. If your party is not invisible then flayers and elder orbs will teleport to them and start attacking so it's crucial that the whole party be invisible while your scout runs around terrorizing the hive.

    It takes a long time to clear them out using this method but with the improved beholders from SCS boosted by LOB mode there isn't much else you can do that I am aware of. They can steal the cloak of reflection and the shield of baldran. I would equip them if you got them because it may delay the negative effects by a few seconds which might be enough to let you escape around a corner and go invisible. I use my FMT's invisibility as much as possible so I don't burn through all of my potions.

    If you find a good narrow passage that won't allow enemies to come up behind you. Use the wand of monster summoning and lead them in first. Then cast lots of web spells. The web spells will stick the summons in place and the beholders will get stuck on your frozen summons. Then have 3 characters using wands of cloud kill to exterminate them. position your summons so they plug up the passage before webbing them.

    In short, improved haste, mass improved invisibility on the party, summons that can't be effected by the beholders, wands of cloud kill, and hit and run tactics with invisibility and the cloak of reflection. That is if you are trying to clear the entire map and kill everything possible like I do. Otherwise you could sneak your party through the area and just collect treasure and gulp a potion of invisibility to get through the areas without too much fighting. There are a few elder's that can see through invisibility so the boots of speed can come in handy for high tailing it away. If you are using hit and run tactics it might be a good idea to use the cloak of non detection to keep the elders from seeing you. If you are in the underdark it's possible that you may have a few HLA abilities. Summon a planateer and have her cast blade barrier combined with invisibility and haste she should be able to tank them. Jahiera can cast elemental prince summons that are high enough level to stand up against them. Dragon breath ignores magic resistance so it will mass damage groups of them. A time stop trap combined with mislead can allow some nasty backstab damage with a FMT if beholders are not immune to it. I can't remember if they are or not.

    Post edited by the_sextein on
    StummvonBordwehrOrlonKronsteenlolienJuliusBorisov
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 483
    Incendiary cloud is something I hadn't thought of. I'll have to try that next time I play. It's important to note what difficulty you are playing on and weather you use SCS and what SCS options you use. In my game the shield of Baldran and the cloak of mirroring will be stolen by the beholders within a round usually. Makes the items hardly useful. I usually don't buy the shield of Baldran anymore because it's not worth the gold. The cloak of mirroring I equip though since you earn it through adventuring. I like to kill everything and clear every map to the fullest but I like that you can simply sneak through most of the area if you need to. This is one of those enemies that can be tedious, so an easy way to bypass them without lowering the difficulty is welcome in my opinion.

    JuliusBorisov
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 5,239
    You can handle one or two by buffing up your fighters and blitzing the beholders down. I've never been able to handle groups of more than 3 without the shield though.

  • NoloirNoloir Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 194
    edited May 7
    Borek said:

    Sadly they are immune to backstab and on LoB they are way too resilient to risk melee IMO, but on non-LoB difficulty you can certainly risk melee once you get high enough level/geared and saves are into the negatives.

    Most effective technique i use for solo LoB as a FMT (or any mage) is to stand outside their sight and plop down Incendiary cloud and switch in Staff of the Magi as soon as it's cast, so they stay in the area and get napalmed whilst i warm my hands on the inferno.

    I usually buff up with a Spell Shield in advance just in case something goes wrong and they sling a dispel my way, but it's not really needed. Technically you can do it with wand of cloudkill/Fireball and staff of the magi, meaning you don't even need to be a mage (thief or bard with UAI) or use any actual spells, but on LoB it takes up to 4 castings so Incendiary cloud is the speedier option.

    Of course you have to beat a Hive mother (and other nasties) to get the staff, but with careful positioning you can win that fight 1 or 2 enemies at a time, plus have the advantage of being able to pre-trap/skull trap the area...Last run through i just blanketed the area via project images with skull traps and once i spawned the Lich the entire room exploded lol.

    The only way to get it soloing on insane mode or higher. A scroll of invisibility won't hurt either but it must be timed properly. Otherwise the hive mother will just blast it away and the undead nasties in there will have their feast for the day.

  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 639
    Potions of Magic Protection and the like, plus stealth where needed.

    Mathsorcerer
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 8,957
    tbone1 said:

    Assuming they have butts.

    I think that's ALL they have. Butts and eyes.

    ThacoBellStummvonBordwehrtbone1
  • Joan_DaroJoan_Daro Member Posts: 67
    SKELETON WARRIORS
    I never buy the shield of Balduran.
    Just go get Viconia. A lv10 cleric can easily solo the unseeing cult quest without difficulty, SCS or not.
    Note that they (including the hive mother from twisted rune) have terrible saving throws so try (GM+) confusion / greater command
    Also: casting greater command on yourself won't break the sanctuary spell and won't knock yourself / any party member unconscious
    The spell-casting hive mothers like the one in WK or the one in Sendai's Enclave are slightly tougher than that (higher resistance and all), but by then you should have lv25+ characters, just GWW your way out.

    GusindaAerakarOrlonKronsteen
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 1,794

    Wand of Cloudkill fully charged.
    Is there another way?

    Oh yes, Wand of Cloudkill fully charged and Staff of the Magi. :D

    tbone1GusindaAerakar
  • tbone1tbone1 Member Posts: 1,879

    tbone1 said:

    Assuming they have butts.

    I think that's ALL they have. Butts and eyes.
    There must be more. I mean, there is a mouth and teeth, so I think some sort of structure(s) for digestion would be likely.

    ThacoBell
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 483


    Wand of Cloudkill fully charged.
    Is there another way?

    Oh yes, Wand of Cloudkill fully charged and Staff of the Magi. :D

    It's probably just habit from my early days with this game but I do everything possible by the end of chapter 3 other than the twisted rune. I save that fight for my return to Athkatla. When I first started playing I simply didn't have the knowledge to beat them early on but now. I think I just like using spike traps and time stop traps on the lich. There is something so satisfying about him teleporting into a huge pile of traps and being torn to shreds. Cheezy? Sure but it's just so satisfying. So I don't have the staff of the magi for either of the beholder nests. It sure would make it easier though. Something to consider for the next run.

    tbone1
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,350
    I like to Polymorph Self into a Mustard Jelly (100% magic, electricity, and piercing resistance) and then make liberal use of the Wand of Apprenti, since I rarely find much call for it otherwise.

    Aerakartbone1
  • HenryNYHenryNY Member Posts: 19
    None of the above seems to have touched the real core of the OP’s question:

    You meet 3 Elder Orbs and something else, face to face, as soon as you enter a tiny room... totally unexpectedly. And you immediately realize you have nowhere to hide, because the space is too tight. What are you going to do? Flee? If you cast (mass) invisibility they cast 3x true sight. If you summon a Planetar, well they are no warriors, so they cast imprisonment to banish it.

  • Joan_DaroJoan_Daro Member Posts: 67
    HenryNY said:


    You meet 3 Elder Orbs and something else, face to face, as soon as you enter a tiny room... totally unexpectedly.

    1) turn back and get out of the room
    2) if you can't do so (maybe due to the mod that put those elder orbs in the room) then give the Staff of Magi to the mage who's wearing the Robe of Vecna, potion of invisibility & cloak of non-detection on your bhaalspawn, abandon everyone else, cast improved alacrity, pierce magic+LR on each orb, and then blow them up.
    3) if you're using the scs version of staff of magi you will need SI:DIV
    4) if the orbs casted SI:ABJU and globe of invulnerability then trigger your 3xAbi-Dazim chain contingency by having your mage larloch minor draining himself
    4.5) you're in a tiny room; you don't have the time or space to use the wand of ruby reversal
    4.6) don't remember multiple ruby reversals. 7th slots are much more important than that
    4.7) if you are a sorcerer then you have more than one way to eliminate them without this thread
    5) if your mage don't have said contingency and spells, reload and sleep and remember that you should use PIs (with SI:DIV *AND* SI:ABJU) to do the fights whenever possible and save the actual spells on your actual mage for emergencies like these, and sleep whenever they are used
    6) use the wands from wk instead of memorizing more than 1 breach spell in your 5th slots. Pierce magic spell can also be casted from said wand but pierce magic are often used in IA or sequencers so you will need to find a balance between pm pfmw pfme and improved haste
    6.5) there are items which allow warriors to IH themselves

    lolien
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 483
    edited May 8
    Contingency and sequencers can help. Whoever has the robe of vecna can quickly cast time stop or simply haste the entire party. Have characters use items that summon allies quickly. The genie, berserk warrior, spider, and golem. The more distractions you have the less you will be targeted. 3X abi's can certainly help. I did the unseeing eye quest at level 14 I think. The end battle with SCS has multiple elder orbs and the unseeing eye itself and I managed to kill them all without HLA's or high end contingencies. Unless you are playing solo or no reload you should be able to pre-buff if you really need to.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 327
    HenryNY said:

    None of the above seems to have touched the real core of the OP’s question:

    You meet 3 Elder Orbs and something else, face to face, as soon as you enter a tiny room... totally unexpectedly. And you immediately realize you have nowhere to hide, because the space is too tight. What are you going to do? Flee? If you cast (mass) invisibility they cast 3x true sight. If you summon a Planetar, well they are no warriors, so they cast imprisonment to banish it.

    Equip Staff of the Magi, Project Image > Time Stop > Improved Alacrity > Greater Malison > ADHW x3 > Wish

    If any have survived you'll have a bunch of wish choices, potentially gaining the Double Length IA + Timestop, which is by far my favourite, if not the image still has a huge repertoire of spells left.

    This assumes you don't have chain contingency 3x ADHW triggered upon incapacitate, which project image will achieve, giving you an instantaneous 60d8 AoE magic damage start and possibly meaning you won't even need to go into the Time Stop shenanigans.

    the_sextein
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 483
    That's a bunch of damage. I haven't been using project image very much. Think I'm going to start.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 327

    That's a bunch of damage. I haven't been using project image very much. Think I'm going to start.

    My favourite spell by far, just try and remember to keep 2x Spell Immunity memorized so you can use the image to cast SI Divination and SI Adjuration, to prevent it being dispelled or removed by True Sight. You also get access to anything in your quick slots via the image, which do NOT affect the original items, so you can abuse some powerful items with limited uses, such as scroll of Wish, not that it's easy to get a spare in the 1st place lol.

    Of course you could cast the spells w/o using an image, but i'd rather use 1 7th level slot than most/all of my 8th and 9th level slots. It's main drawback is that the image doesn't have it's own visibility radius, so you have to fight close to your character unless you utilize Wizard Eye/Farsight to extend it's range. Not usually a problem as it only lasts for a relatively short duration, but at high level it can be useful. Of course if you are not solo then far less of an issue.

    Also very handy for draining powerful spell casting enemies of their more potent anti-mage attacks without putting the spawn at direct risk of the dreaded game over screen. Even if the image gets taken down without being able to cast that many damaging spells then it's likely absorbed several of the enemies more potent attacks, meaning it's weaker for a 2nd image or the spawn him/her-self.

    And don't even get me started on using it on Aerie, a Mage/Cleric or FMC spawn, hehe.

    lolien
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 639
    HenryNY said:

    None of the above seems to have touched the real core of the OP’s question:

    You meet 3 Elder Orbs and something else, face to face, as soon as you enter a tiny room... totally unexpectedly. And you immediately realize you have nowhere to hide, because the space is too tight. What are you going to do? Flee? If you cast (mass) invisibility they cast 3x true sight. If you summon a Planetar, well they are no warriors, so they cast imprisonment to banish it.

    Disbelieve them. "Kalah, this shit ain't funny no more!"

    tbone1
  • Joan_DaroJoan_Daro Member Posts: 67
    Borek said:

    That's a bunch of damage. I haven't been using project image very much. Think I'm going to start.

    And don't even get me started on using it on Aerie, a Mage/Cleric or FMC spawn, hehe.
    Well PIs can't do physical attack so it's not that useful on FMC
    But yes if you have a cleric/mage (the ultimate caster) PI will surely be a favorite spell

  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 483
    edited May 9
    Borek said:

    That's a bunch of damage. I haven't been using project image very much. Think I'm going to start.

    My favourite spell by far, just try and remember to keep 2x Spell Immunity memorized so you can use the image to cast SI Divination and SI Adjuration, to prevent it being dispelled or removed by True Sight. You also get access to anything in your quick slots via the image, which do NOT affect the original items, so you can abuse some powerful items with limited uses, such as scroll of Wish, not that it's easy to get a spare in the 1st place lol.

    Of course you could cast the spells w/o using an image, but i'd rather use 1 7th level slot than most/all of my 8th and 9th level slots. It's main drawback is that the image doesn't have it's own visibility radius, so you have to fight close to your character unless you utilize Wizard Eye/Farsight to extend it's range. Not usually a problem as it only lasts for a relatively short duration, but at high level it can be useful. Of course if you are not solo then far less of an issue.

    Also very handy for draining powerful spell casting enemies of their more potent anti-mage attacks without putting the spawn at direct risk of the dreaded game over screen. Even if the image gets taken down without being able to cast that many damaging spells then it's likely absorbed several of the enemies more potent attacks, meaning it's weaker for a 2nd image or the spawn him/her-self.

    And don't even get me started on using it on Aerie, a Mage/Cleric or FMC spawn, hehe.
    I tried messing around with it but contingencies and sequencers cannot be used with PI using the hardest SCS settings. It also won't allow you to use quick item slots from PI or simulacrum. You can use abilities from wearable items like rings however. They can also use HLA abilities so that is cool. I can see why they would limit it, as it would be easy to keep casting protection from magic scrolls without using them up. I was hoping the contingencies would work so I could push 18 ADHR at once using 3 mages and PI's but it's not meant to be and it would probably overkill everything. The PI has the spell memorized and they can cast it and set it up but it won't actually work if you try to use it. All quick item slots are also greyed.

    StummvonBordwehrlolien
«13
Sign In or Register to comment.