Dual Classing Limits

BW022

Does BG:EE still have the dual-classing limit that you can only dual class into one of the class combinations allowed on the multi-class list? No ranger/druids for example?

moody_mage

I think you can do Ranger/Druid.

It is likely whatever limits BG2 uses as it's the same engine.

RogueJK

BW022 said:

Does BG:EE still have the dual-classing limit that you can only dual class into one of the class combinations allowed on the multi-class list? No ranger/druids for example?

That is correct. Pages 51 and 52 in the manual list all of the allowable multi/dual class choices. Ranger/Druids are not allowed. Rangers can only multi/dual class with Cleric, and Druid can only multi/dual class with Fighter.

Icewind Dale 2 is the only Infinity Engine game that allows 3rd Edition-style multiclassing, where nearly any combination is possible.

LordsDarkKnight185

Ranger/Druid has alignment conflicts, So it would never be allowed in AD&D 2e

Shin

If the hardcoded limitations on dual class combinations eventually get removed in the EE though, it should be possible to create customized dual classes without crashing the game. So you might one day be able to make a monk/sorcerer or paladin/thief.

Oxford_Guy

I think the Archer and Stalker kits can't dual-class, but I might be wrong

Tanthalas

They can.

ryuken87

IIRC they could in SoA, couldn't in ToB, then could again with the Fixpack. The fixpack says this:

'Stalkers and Archers Are Not Allowed to Dual-Class

In Throne of Bhaal, BioWare altered Stalkers and Archers to not be able to dual-class. As ToB reflects the most recent developer intent, ToB changes are generally rolled back to SoA games, so Stalkers and Archers are altered to be unable to dual-class in SoA-only games as well. There is an Optional But Cool component to allow them to dual-class in both SoA and ToB games. '

Wanderon

RogueJK said:

BW022 said:

Does BG:EE still have the dual-classing limit that you can only dual class into one of the class combinations allowed on the multi-class list? No ranger/druids for example?

That is correct. Pages 51 and 52 in the manual list all of the allowable multi/dual class choices. Ranger/Druids are not allowed. Rangers can only multi/dual class with Cleric, and Druid can only multi/dual class with Fighter.

Icewind Dale 2 is the only Infinity Engine game that allows 3rd Edition-style multiclassing, where nearly any combination is possible.

That said - the ranger/cleric gets all the druid spells as well as the cleric spells or at least they did in the original versions

IchigoRXC

@Shin If not for wide release, I hope they at least make this sort of thing moddable. I mean, changing the alignment/dual-multiclass systems might be past their limits contract wise, but opening it for modding is not actually changing it, merely allowing change to happen which I hope would be possible

Tanthalas

Not really sure what was the reasoning behind restricting Archers and Stalkers from dual-classing.

I think I could see why they did it for Stalkers, but a Sling (Darts?) using Archer/Cleric doesn't seem that impressive to warrant the exclusion.

Shin

@IchigoRXC Yeah, I agree. I believe that kind of request is in the externalization thread already, but no telling when stuff like that actually ends up being implemented.

Mungri

Archer bonuses would only apply to a sling for Archer / Clerics, not to darts.

Its not really impressive, but it just makes a slightly stronger backline slinger cleric plus druid spells.

A stalker / cleric would gain backstabs, higher stealth and haste, but can only backstab with clubs / staffs. As appealing as it may seem to some people, its still nothing close to a Kensai dualed to a thief or mage, its just an extra fun class combination to try out.

Both these builds would really only viable in BG2 because BG1 doesnt have much XP available to dual at level 7-9, but you could still dump the EXP difference between 161,000 and level 8 cleric into a ranger kit, and then dual to a cleric in BG1 if you want to.

Actually, I just looked into this a little more, and archer hit bonuses do apply to darts. With BG1's level cap you can make a level 6 ranger kit and dual and still have enough EXP available to reach level 8 cleric. Level 6 would get an archer +2 hit and damage bonuses with slings + darts, -1 thaco penalty to the opponent, and 1 use of called shot.

revaar

For me, the biggest reason to dual class a stalker to cleric would be fore the Mage spells they get. Since the game doesn't distinguish between ranger and cleric casting, you could get them at cleric level 5, rather than waiting all the way to ranger level 9.

Ignatius

Mungri said:

A stalker / cleric would gain backstabs, higher stealth and haste, but can only backstab with clubs / staffs. As appealing as it may seem to some people, its still nothing close to a Kensai dualed to a thief or mage, its just an extra fun class combination to try out.

There are excellent stalves for a dualed cleric to backstab with, especially in BG2. The thing with the Stalker->Cleric dual is that in backstabbing terms, it would always be inferior to a Thief->Cleric. The Stalker's mage spells would be nice to have. As for the Druid specific spells, they would not really add much to the cleric until lvl.4 and even more so at lvl.5 (Ironskins), which would mean a rather late dual-classing.

Mungri

I know that, I dont do backstabbing anyway, I'd just do stalker > cleric for the haste and extra stealth.

Pantalion

Mungri said:

As appealing as it may seem to some people, its still nothing close to a Kensai dualed to a thief or mage, its just an extra fun class combination to try out.

Bear in mind that whatever the Stalker/Cleric might lose to a Kensai/Thief, it does sport the unarguable best divine caster spell list in the game, beating even Ranger/Cleric thanks to its spell additions (mainly haste). Iron Skins and Nature's Beauty do rather ameliorate any reduction in backstab damage.

Ignatius

Mungri said:

I know that, I dont do backstabbing anyway, I'd just do stalker > cleric for the haste and extra stealth.

Ok. At which level would you dual?

SwordsNotWords

revaar said:

For me, the biggest reason to dual class a stalker to cleric would be fore the Mage spells they get. Since the game doesn't distinguish between ranger and cleric casting, you could get them at cleric level 5, rather than waiting all the way to ranger level 9.

So a stalker dualed to a cleric gets cleric spells, druid spells and mage spells?

Mungri

I wouldnt do a stalker > cleric in BG1. In BG2 I would like to try a 9 stalker dualed to a cleric.

In BG1 a 6 Archer dualed to a cleric would be a lot more useful.

Ignatius

Mungri said:

In BG1 a 6 Archer dualed to a cleric would be a lot more useful.

A cleric with +2 to hit / +2 damage with a sling, a called shot, stealth and a racial ennemy.

Tanthalas

@SwordsNotWords

The only Mage spells they get are the Stalker specific spells.

AHF

Ignatius said:

Mungri said:

In BG1 a 6 Archer dualed to a cleric would be a lot more useful.

A cleric with +2 to hit / +2 damage with a sling, a called shot, stealth and a racial ennemy.

Not just that, but you can also invest in sling with Archer weapon proficiencies for additional combat benefits (apr, etc.) normally unavailable to clerics.