Black Pits: Our New Sandbox for Character Builds

Lemernis

I've played a number of singleplayer games with multiple PCs (via MP mode) for BG1 over the years and actually enjoyed them a great deal. There really isn't all that much banter or interaction between NPCs in BG1 to begin with. Most of their personality gets expressed through the various combination of elements that the player can also create: class or kit, stats, weapons profs/skills focus, custom portrait, custom soundset. If you want to get more creative you can Shadowkeeper a special ability, which can be kind of fun.

Granted, player-created PCs (serving as NPCs) don't have quests or backstories--which, in my book, is what clearly makes the game's NPCs preferable. I'm just observing that for most of the game's duration, the NPC's personality arguably expresses itself through the basic building blocks mentioned above.

And those who have played Tutu or BGT for years now also know that the BG2 engine gives us many kits to choose from in BG1 (including modded ones).

So it is in this vein that I'm actually looking forward to the Black Pits as a standalone game. It gives me a chance to experiment... to play in the sandbox, as it were... with various builds--and to do so without investing time into a full BG:EE game in order to try them out. There's a lot of kits that I want to try, and have just never gotten around to. And there'll be even more to try once mods are refitted to BG:EE's WeiDu.

The Black Pits will be a kind of lab for me to see what sorts of PCs I can build for the BG:EE and eventually the entire saga. And, for me, that's something that I appreciate... and arguably, I think I may prefer having as a standalone feature...

Thoughts?

raywind

I personally would have preferred black pits to be like that combat square system in IWD2 but your idea makes black pits usefull for something at least.

Ignatius

Can characters (and their equipment) be imported/exported freely between BG:EE and the Black Pits? can one fight in the Pits for a while, and then come back later after having advanced in the main game, and not have to face again the same early ennemies from the Pit?

Moomintroll

I can't wait for the black pits, I think it might be the first thing I do when I get the game. Thinking about it like that makes it sound even better!

Zafiro

@Moomintroll, don't you need a party first, or at least one high level character? Will ShadowKeeper work for BG:EE to add exp and stuff?

Moomintroll

@Zafiro I hope not! I was under the impression that you started the Black Pits IWD style with a full new party.

Zafiro

@Moomintroll, heh, with what, Mars bars? I actually had to google to see if that's a real thing.

Lemernis

I think you have the option of either importing a party from a saved game or creating up to six characters from scratch. In the latter scenario I'm not sure if you can only build them from level 1 or choose a higher level, though. I'm sure others who have beta tested will correct this impression if I'm wrong!

Moomintroll

@Zafiro if there are no mars bars in the black pits, I'm not buying!

Ignatius

Lemernis said:

I think you have the option of either importing a party from a saved game or creating up to six characters from scratch. In the latter scenario I'm not sure if you can only build them from level 1 or choose a higher level, though. I'm sure others who have beta tested will correct this impression if I'm wrong!

Ok, thanks for that.

Shin

I can see potential of the Black Pits as a kind of experimental lab, though starting a new game of ToB already filled this function imo. It gives you the opportunity to import or create a highlevel party, and opens with a relatively complex encounter after a brief introduction, letting you get a good idea of what a given character's capabilities are going to be like after development.

The main benefit of the Black Pits would seem to be if you want to do this in the sub-level 10 range rather than the sub-20 range.

Edit: I guess I can also appreciate it in terms of wanting an even more thorough test-run of a certain build or party composition, i.e. like in a series of varied encounters such as the Black Pits can be expected to deliver. This is harder to get in ToB unless you tolerate a certain amount of story content in between. But on the other hand it's possible that you have to get through a number of simple fights in the Black Pits until you reach the ones that truly test you.

DonnyBrook

I can't seem to find anything like this on the bugs section.

So I leveled up a character in Black Pits in order to re-import it into BG:EE and dual class him. I just switched classes and have been killing Gnolls for a bit and so far my new class xp level stays stuck at zero. Has anyone else experienced (no pun intendede) this?

Thanks!

Amardarial

@DonnyBrook Black Pits has a higher level cap then the actual BG EE game, that could very well explain why you don't gain any XP as you could already be at the level cap or even above it.

DonnyBrook

Thanks @Amardarial

That makes sense. However, I think there is a slightly deeper issue. I ran some tests. I switched my L9 Fighter to Thief in Black Pits just to try it out. The PC still won't gain XP even in Black Pits. So it seems the XP cap is cumulative and affects dual classing dramatically. I can't say I am not a bit bummed about it. I know game balancing is touchy and all, but it is a big limitation for dual-class purposes... sigh...maybe some DLC will address the issue officially without recurring to hacks/mods...

DonnyBrook

Well, from looking around there is this:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/10212/a-simple-xp-cap-remover

It worked.

I just hope my PC will be BG2:EE compatible eventually....

Dee

The way the XP cap works in the black pits is slightly different, which is why there are some issues with dual-classing.

In the Black Pits, each class has its own XP cap; so as a level 9 fighter, with however much XP that is, when you dual-class to a thief the XP cap becomes whatever the number is for a thief to reach level 10.

Since that number is lower than your current XP as a fighter, the game prohibits you from gaining any more.

(if it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, it's because it was explained to me by someone else. For the moment, at least, there's no "fix" for this apart from adjusting the XP cap manually.)