@nemesis, BG1 doesn't give you many choices. You have Garrick and Eldoth. Garrick will get along with your lawful good cavalier, especially with the changes made to neutral character reactions, but Eldoth is evil, and is going to cause you problems.
That leaves you with Garrick. He's funny and interesing to have around, but he has poor stats and is really kind of a lousy bard. You can use him to identify items, back up a few arcane spells if you can get him to learn any, and have him fire his crossbow. People who want a power-party don't use him.
I wouldn't use his song, because plain bardsong doesn't do anything but protect from fear, (unless they fixed it to Do What It Says On the Tin), and you have a cleric spell that does that better.
Bards are really only good when you use their kits - skald, blade, jester. That means you have to play one yourself if you want one.
I like to play a skald, just so I can be doing something unique from the rest of the party, and I think the bonuses are good, plus it suits me from a roleplaying perspective to stay out of direct combat.
Bards as a rule are pretty terrible in bg1. Garrick is arguably the worst npc in the game, and eldoth isn't much better. you could roll a bard yourself and take Ajantis, which would be the best bet.
between the two, take eldoth. he can at least create poison arrows, a pretty awesome ability. however, you are a paladin and he is evil. In other words, if you're set on bards, you have to choose between evil and useless.
@nemesis, BG1 doesn't give you many choices. You have Garrick and Eldoth. Garrick will get along with your lawful good cavalier, especially with the changes made to neutral character reactions, but Eldoth is evil, and is going to cause you problems.
That leaves you with Garrick. He's funny and interesing to have around, but he has poor stats and is really kind of a lousy bard. You can use him to identify items, back up a few arcane spells if you can get him to learn any, and have him fire his crossbow. People who want a power-party don't use him.
I wouldn't use his song, because plain bardsong doesn't do anything but protect from fear, (unless they fixed it to Do What It Says On the Tin), and you have a cleric spell that does that better.
Bards are really only good when you use their kits - skald, blade, jester. That means you have to play one yourself if you want one.
I like to play a skald, just so I can be doing something unique from the rest of the party, and I think the bonuses are good, plus it suits me from a roleplaying perspective to stay out of direct combat.
This is why Rogue Rebalancing is a necessity!...I am going to be so sad until it is updated T.T
Since I love to play bards, I certainly do appreciate the Rogue Rebalancing mod, for sure. I can live without it, though, at least in BG1, because vanilla skaldsong bonuses of +2 to AC, hit and damage are still very useful bonuses in BG1.
There is one thing however a plain Bard will excel at: using special items. IIRC, they can use any wand/scroll/potion - there are lots of them, very powerful. While your other party members cast their spells, pelt their arrows or draw their swords, having one bard using wands/scrolling or potions can be extremely efficient.
@Ignatius, I agree that wand use is one of the bard's strong points. The trouble is, mages can do that too, plus have all their spell slots, so it's hard to justify taking Garrick when you could take Dynaheir, Xan, Xzar, or Edwin and get so much more bang for the buck.
There is one more thing to put in the bard's plus column, though: his fast leveling. A lot of people don't think about this, but a bard can be up to level 10 by the end of BG1, which means, his Chromatic Orb can potentially petrify Sarevok. Also, his higher levels give his Dispel Magic, Remove Magic, and Fireballs more oomph.
@Ignatius, I agree that wand use is one of the bard's strong points. The trouble is, mages can do that too, plus have all their spell slots, so it's hard to justify taking Garrick when you could take Dynaheir, Xan, Xzar, or Edwin and get so much more bang for the buck.
You're right. But then if I'm taking a back-line character mostly for special items and occasionally a few spells (because I already have another arcane caster in my party), I'll take into account the fact that Garrick can use a short bow while Xsar will be stuck with a sling. I quite fancy having a Garrick alternating between his short bow equipped with magic arrows (some of which are very powerful) / a shot with the Wand of Sleep or Wand of Heavens / an offensive spell here and there / or a battle winning high-level scroll. It's a fun role to play because it is so versatile.
There is one more thing to put in the bard's plus column, though: his fast leveling. A lot of people don't think about this, but a bard can be up to level 10 by the end of BG1, which means, his Chromatic Orb can potentially petrify Sarevok. Also, his higher levels give his Dispel Magic, Remove Magic, and Fireballs more oomph.
Bards can use bows and crossbows, they can FIGHT, they can identify, they can cast useful spells, and they can use wands and scrolls. Oh, and they are the only class that plays backup music.
I can see bards being picked on again on this forum. BARDS are the best casters in BG1 and most of the time on the sequal also. AND when you add a kit to that awesomeness its incredible powerhouse.
Few things for you to consider before saying bards suck is that bards spells are more powerfull than mages, bard can use any weapon he/she pleases, bards can sing, bards can shoot with any weapon they please, bards get pickpockets so your thief dont haveto (for those few items), bards have lore to identify items which doesnt sound like a big of a deal but in the end of the game you can easily have saved around 5-10k money on identify only.
Skald kit helps you mostly in the early stages of the game when its hard to hit enemies.
Jester makes enemies run aimlessly so they are easy to pick.
Blade is just utterly annihilating thing with right spells.
been playing on bards 95% of the time allmost and completed the game around 200 times.
Agreed bards are probably the single most powerful class in BG. If it weren't for the fact that most don't take advantage of their jack of all trades functionality bards would be undisputed kings.
Agreed bards are probably the single most powerful class in BG. If it weren't for the fact that most don't take advantage of their jack of all trades functionality bards would be undisputed kings.
The OP didn't really start this thread to discuss the bard class in general. Rather, he said he wanted to play a cavalier, and that he was interested in taking a bard npc.
So it was really a question about Garrick and Eldoth, although, I suppose that does invite discussion about bards in general. We already had a thread about it, though.
Garrick is arguably the worst npc in the game, and eldoth isn't much better.
Wait I thought the general consensus was that gameplay-wise, Alora was the worst NPC in the game, due to being near fully leveled when you get her with all her points spent in sucky ways and the most abysmal HP in the freaking game. Garrick doesn't even come near that. He's actually pretty useful. Just...not as useful as some of the other NPC's.
I happen to like Garrick's personality, so I use him every so often.
I use him to identify items, carry the gems, potions, scrolls, extra ammo, cast a few choice spells, and in battle I most often have him sing Bard Song. If Garrick sings Bard Song then the party's cleric need not allocate spell slots on Protection From Fear or Remove Fear.
The priest is mainly going to spend slots on healing early on, and in my games also casting buffing spells for major battles. Eventually the priest will cast offensive spells. But anyway, it's not for nothin' that a bard can help free up the cleric to cast more spells by using Bard Song.
I will sometimes have Garrick use the crossbow to fire bolts of lightning and stunning, if it seems that the threat of an enemy mage casting Horror is negligible.
Comments
Or are you speaking of kits?
That leaves you with Garrick. He's funny and interesing to have around, but he has poor stats and is really kind of a lousy bard. You can use him to identify items, back up a few arcane spells if you can get him to learn any, and have him fire his crossbow. People who want a power-party don't use him.
I wouldn't use his song, because plain bardsong doesn't do anything but protect from fear, (unless they fixed it to Do What It Says On the Tin), and you have a cleric spell that does that better.
Bards are really only good when you use their kits - skald, blade, jester. That means you have to play one yourself if you want one.
I like to play a skald, just so I can be doing something unique from the rest of the party, and I think the bonuses are good, plus it suits me from a roleplaying perspective to stay out of direct combat.
between the two, take eldoth. he can at least create poison arrows, a pretty awesome ability. however, you are a paladin and he is evil. In other words, if you're set on bards, you have to choose between evil and useless.
There is one more thing to put in the bard's plus column, though: his fast leveling. A lot of people don't think about this, but a bard can be up to level 10 by the end of BG1, which means, his Chromatic Orb can potentially petrify Sarevok. Also, his higher levels give his Dispel Magic, Remove Magic, and Fireballs more oomph.
EDIT: Edwin, not Eldoth! Duh.
Few things for you to consider before saying bards suck is that bards spells are more powerfull than mages, bard can use any weapon he/she pleases, bards can sing, bards can shoot with any weapon they please, bards get pickpockets so your thief dont haveto (for those few items), bards have lore to identify items which doesnt sound like a big of a deal but in the end of the game you can easily have saved around 5-10k money on identify only.
Skald kit helps you mostly in the early stages of the game when its hard to hit enemies.
Jester makes enemies run aimlessly so they are easy to pick.
Blade is just utterly annihilating thing with right spells.
been playing on bards 95% of the time allmost and completed the game around 200 times.
BARDS!!!!!
So it was really a question about Garrick and Eldoth, although, I suppose that does invite discussion about bards in general. We already had a thread about it, though.
That being said, I'd love it if there were additional bards in BG:EE.
Eldoth is a prick.
I use him to identify items, carry the gems, potions, scrolls, extra ammo, cast a few choice spells, and in battle I most often have him sing Bard Song. If Garrick sings Bard Song then the party's cleric need not allocate spell slots on Protection From Fear or Remove Fear.
The priest is mainly going to spend slots on healing early on, and in my games also casting buffing spells for major battles. Eventually the priest will cast offensive spells. But anyway, it's not for nothin' that a bard can help free up the cleric to cast more spells by using Bard Song.
I will sometimes have Garrick use the crossbow to fire bolts of lightning and stunning, if it seems that the threat of an enemy mage casting Horror is negligible.