Some questions about playing a bard character

Aldaran

Hi guys, I just have a couple of questions about the bard class and kits which I'd like to play in bgee.

I have played the original Baldurs gate Games a bit, a long time ago (I never finished them, I wasn't so much into computer games back then) but it has always been my favoure game (the atmosphere and the bit of freedom you get in this game is fantastic) .

However I've never played with a bard before and I wanted to ask about the bards song - I know it removes/protects from fear and increases moral (for the standard bard class) however I'm unsure as to what benefits moral actually gives to the party in more general terms.
Also I'd like to ask about the jesters song, what do you more experienced people think about it? Do either (or both) of the bard songs effects stop as soon as I stop playing, or do they linger for a while?

I think I've narrowed it down to making either a standard bard or a jester as I'd like to keep the lore and pickpocket that the other kits get a disadvantage with. So it comes down to the bard songs.

One last question - I'd love to use darts or maybe throwing knives with this character for something different (never used them before) but are there many magical darts or knives in the game, and how do they compare to using a crossbow or bow?

Thanks very much!

Oxford_Guy

In BG1 there are no magic throwing daggers, but quite a few magic darts. There is one very good non-throwing dagger, and +1 and +2 daggers are available.

In BG2 there are decent daggers , both throwing and melee, but I think.

Darts have a good rate of fire (3 per round), and can be good for disrupting enemy spell casters, but bows are usually a better option, for some reason I usually go for crossbows with a bard (probably because not many NPCs use them, at least not the heavy ones, and there's a very good heavy crossbow in BG1...)

Time4Tiddy

The bard song gives a hidden "luck" bonus to hit, damage, and saves. I believe in the code it increased your to-hit roll by +1 and increased the minimum damage of a weapon by 1 (2-6 instead of 1-6), along with a +1 to all saving throws, higher in the case of fear/morale. Morale matters when your NPC hit points are low - if they fail their morale save, they will turn yellow and run away, and you will not be able to control them again until several rounds after the fight has been completed. It's a huge pain, especially when it happens to your tank!

In the original BG the song was static, but with BG2 it improved based on your kit and level, so it probably will improve in EE as well. The biggest trouble is that the bard can't take offensive action while singing, so your bard needs to be off to the side doing his thing.

I ALWAYS had a bard in original BG, either as my PC or took Garrick along. I found the luck bonus made such a huge difference in most encounters that I felt gimped without it.

As others have said, I usually gave the bard a crossbow - my thief had the Eagle Bow and my fighter/rangers all used composites or the Long Bow of Marksmanship, so the bard has a nice niche using the Light Crossbow of Speed to use up all the magic bolts you find in Durlag's and elsewhere.

Aldaran

Great, thanks for the information! Do we know if the hidden luck bonus is carrying over to the bgee? I'll have to think hard about crossbows or darts then. I was originally planning to use a crossbow with my bard until I remembered darts and throwing daggers which I've never used. I remember it is a bit annoying when you find a great item that no one in your party can use!

Time4Tiddy

I would assume the luck bonus will remain, as otherwise there is no point to the vanilla bard song.

Aldaran

Ok, thanks. Has anyone got any opinions or advice on the jesters song and how good it might be?

ZanathKariashi

Jester song..at least the confusion one is a bit of a let down. The enemies rarely attack each other, so the only side you're helping is theirs by doing effectively nothing. That said, they do tend to fail the save a lot more then in BG2 (the confusion has a +4 save bonus in enemies favor). Now...in BG2 on the other hand..Jesters are sickening. They get a new additional effect at 15 (slow, no save penalty/bonus, quite nice as you're basically casting slow on all enemies every round FOR FREE) and 21 (incapacitate at a -2 save penalty, which is just sickening)...oh and they have to save against all 3 every round. Toss a GM into the mix and watch the carnage unfold (the effects last for 3 rounds, which if your jester happens to have 2 speed weapons, Gloves of extraordinary specialization (via UAI) and IH...bwahaha 9 attacks per round, and the thac0 penalties don't matter as incapacitated enemies are auto-hit.

Darts are annoying due to their low stack capacity. Unless you have a returning dart (don't think there are any in BG1) you'll be running out quite fast.

Abel

The pure Bard song doesn't give the boni you mentioned @Time4Tiddy. It removes Horror effect and protect against it, that's all. See there: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=23932.
@ZanathKariashi Very disapointed with the Jester song in BG: EE. I picked it because opinions on it were good. But the Confusion effect only last 1 round. Which means you can do nothing but sing if you want the effect to last and then there's the save @ +4. And you forgot to mention the Stun effect along the Slow effect. I think the Jester gets it at the same level but I'm not sure.

badbromance

Abel said:

The pure Bard song doesn't give the boni you mentioned @Time4Tiddy. It removes Horror effect and protect against it, that's all. See there: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=23932.
@ZanathKariashi Very disapointed with the Jester song in BG: EE. I picked it because opinions on it were good. But the Confusion effect only last 1 round. Which means you can do nothing but sing if you want the effect to last and then there's the save @ +4. And you forgot to mention the Stun effect along the Slow effect. I think the Jester gets it at the same level but I'm not sure.

The +4 save is actually a penalty!

Aldaran

Interesting, it seems that those two low level bard songs are a bit underwhelming, it's a pity because I'm quite keen on playing either jester or plain bard class. Is there any consensus on which is most useful in bg1 ? (jester seems better for bg2 from what I've read here at least)
Thanks guys (iPad delay gives me a bit longer to decide still )

ZanathKariashi

Incorrect, a + save bonus FAVORS the enemy, a - negative favors the player. It's why charm person sucks (+4)..and chromatic orb (+6, really!?), you have to doom and GM just to remove the bonus the enemy gets and since the status effect is primary draw for CO and charm, it's horrible.

To save you have to roll your save score or higher. Say you cast charm person on an enemy with a 15 save vs spells. He rolls an 11..and makes the save because of the bonus added to his roll. Then you cast web...he rolls a 16 and fails..because web has a -2 penalty to saves.

badbromance

Its been confirmed that it is indeed a penalty to the save on this forum

ZanathKariashi

Then it's a bug and needs to be corrected. Because it doesn't work like that on both the original BG and BG2.

Time4Tiddy

Abel said:

The pure Bard song doesn't give the boni you mentioned @Time4Tiddy. It removes Horror effect and protect against it, that's all. See there: http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=23932.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/Baldur039s-Gate-1-and-2/Baldur039s-Gate-General-Discussion-No-Spoilers-Allowed/What-does-BG1-bard-song-actually-do-8423310-1.html

Both Planet Baldur's Gate and someone looking at the code for "luck" bonus seem to disagree with this assessment of bard song doing basically nothing. I can also speak from my own experience that my parties seem to do better with 5 attacking and Garrick playing than with 6 attacking. Although it could just be my imagination, I never play through BG1 without either a PC bard or Garrick.

ZanathKariashi

Well...adding anything to everyone else is better then an extra person missing a bunch....

Aldaran

Wow,and I thought it was a simple question about the bard song! I wonder if there's been any word from a dev on what it actually does!