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Ideal difficulty level for a Baldur's Gate 2 veteran who has never played Baldur's Gate 1?

Y3kY3k Member Posts: 14
TL/DR -> Are "Hard" and "Very Hard" difficulty settings reccomanded for players who like to carefully plan their fights or the plain buff which is applied to foes at those difficulties may lead to imbalances in the late game? Do the most experienced players think that the game is actually more funny at those difficulty settings (especially when it comes to fight planning)?

EDIT: I've done a research on these forums about difficulty settings, and I stumbled on a mod called SCS (Sword Cosast Stratagems) http://www.gibberlings3.net/scs/ which looks like exactly what I was looking for: instead of "cheating" (aka double the damage) to improve difficulty, this changes AI in many different ways so that enemies actually become much smarter. I would like to know your opinions also about this guys...is it maybe included in BG:EE? If not, should it be a good idea to install it or maybe some of those changes have already been implemented in BG:EE?

Hi to all, I've played only Baldur's Gate 2 + expansion like 6-7 times (full storyline + most, probably all side quests) on standard AD&D rules (no bonus, no malus). I remember that at such difficulty you would die easily against strong foes if you just tried to hack and slash them, nevertheless, if you planned the fight properly (right buffs, spells, positions) usually it becomes quite easy. So...since I've never played Baldur's Gate 1 and I want to fully enjoy it I'm considering to raise the difficulty to "hard" or possibly even "very hard", but I don't like the idea of computer controlled monster receiving a plain buff (like +50% damage), I fear that this could lead to imbalances in the late game against the stronger foes...I'm confused as you can see...but I would like some opinions of more experienced players about the 2 harder difficulty settings...are they doable by someone who carefully plans the fights (that's what I love to do) or you faced some issues? If it's doable...is it funnier to plan battles at such difficulty settings than it is at standard AD&D rules? Remember: I HATE (I will not do that) to change difficulty settings when the game is started. The difficulty I choose will be kept for all the game (also for BG2 EE when I'll export my characters). It's a matter of consistency.

Comments

  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    "Hard" and "Very Hard" are fake difficulties...they just add 50% and 100% damage.

    I keep it at core rules honestly. Others may not, but like you I hate simply having enemy buffs.

    Bad AI is bad.
  • Y3kY3k Member Posts: 14

    "Hard" and "Very Hard" are fake difficulties...they just add 50% and 100% damage.

    I keep it at core rules honestly. Others may not, but like you I hate simply having enemy buffs.

    Bad AI is bad.

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I've done a research on these forums about difficulty settings, and I stumbled on a mod called SCS (Sword Cosast Stratagems) http://www.gibberlings3.net/scs/
    which looks like exactly what I was looking for: instead of "cheating" (aka double the damage) to improve difficulty, this changes AI in many different ways so that enemies actually become much smarter. I would like to know your opinions also about this guys...is it maybe included in BG:EE? If not, should it be a good idea to install it or maybe some of those changes have been implemented in BG:EE?
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    Y3k said:

    "Hard" and "Very Hard" are fake difficulties...they just add 50% and 100% damage.

    I keep it at core rules honestly. Others may not, but like you I hate simply having enemy buffs.

    Bad AI is bad.

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I've done a research on these forums about difficulty settings, and I stumbled on a mod called SCS (Sword Cosast Stratagems) http://www.gibberlings3.net/scs/
    which looks like exactly what I was looking for: instead of "cheating" (aka double the damage) to improve difficulty, this changes AI in many different ways so that enemies actually become much smarter. I would like to know your opinions also about this guys...is it maybe included in BG:EE? If not, should it be a good idea to install it or maybe some of those changes have been implemented in BG:EE?
    I have not used it, but it is highly recommended int he community.

    IT will NOT come vanilla with BGEE

    I would suggest you to try it out, but at this moment we are unsure of mod compatability for EE, lots of issues currently.
  • Y3kY3k Member Posts: 14



    I have not used it, but it is highly recommended int he community.

    IT will NOT come vanilla with BGEE

    I would suggest you to try it out, but at this moment we are unsure of mod compatability for EE, lots of issues currently.

    Thank you a lot for your reply. I must ask...you're speaking on behalf of Overhaul Games? If yes that's fine I have no more questions, if not, when you say "we are unsure of mod compatability for EE, lots of issues currently." you are stating certain facts or just opinions that you read? In any case, thanks for the insight.
  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    edited November 2012
    Y3k said:



    I have not used it, but it is highly recommended int he community.

    IT will NOT come vanilla with BGEE

    I would suggest you to try it out, but at this moment we are unsure of mod compatability for EE, lots of issues currently.

    Thank you a lot for your reply. I must ask...you're speaking on behalf of Overhaul Games? If yes that's fine I have no more questions, if not, when you say "we are unsure of mod compatability for EE, lots of issues currently." you are stating certain facts or just opinions that you read? In any case, thanks for the insight.
    I am not the voice of anyone but myself. But the fact of the matter is that the program we used to install mods, WEIDU, is not compatible with BGEE. One day when a new version is written then Modding will be alot easier. Until then there is a technical work-around we ("We" as in the BG community) will have to use to try and get mods to work, but it will be a hit or miss, either the mod will work or it will not.

    More about the workaround, here. http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/6950/player-how-to-getting-mods-to-work-on-bgee#latest
  • Y3kY3k Member Posts: 14

    Y3k said:



    I have not used it, but it is highly recommended int he community.

    IT will NOT come vanilla with BGEE

    I would suggest you to try it out, but at this moment we are unsure of mod compatability for EE, lots of issues currently.

    Thank you a lot for your reply. I must ask...you're speaking on behalf of Overhaul Games? If yes that's fine I have no more questions, if not, when you say "we are unsure of mod compatability for EE, lots of issues currently." you are stating certain facts or just opinions that you read? In any case, thanks for the insight.
    I am not the voice of anyone but myself. But the fact of the matter is that the program we used to install mods, WEIDU, is not compatible with BGEE. One day when a new version is written then Modding will be alot easier. Until then there is a technical work-around we ("We" as in the BG community) will have to use to try and get mods to work, but it will be a hit or miss, either the mod will work or it will not.

    More about the workaround, here. http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/6950/player-how-to-getting-mods-to-work-on-bgee#latest
    You're getting my likes and my insight sir. Thanks.

  • ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,036
    edited November 2012
    SCS should work perfectly with BG:EE, in fact its author @DavidW has been on the beta test team for a while now (Actually DavidW is currently porting the mod to BG:EE, the ETA is about a month http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=24894&hl=&fromsearch=1 ).

    Be careful what you wish for, however :) Spellcasters that use buffs and mind-affecting spells intelligently, archers that target the least protected NPCs systematically, thiefs that actually hide and backstab for double/triple damage (on your mage), etc., may all be "just AI", but they drastically affect difficulty nonetheless. Fortunately, SCS is a highly configurable mod so everyone should find a middle ground that's good for him.



  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    Y3k said:

    Y3k said:



    I have not used it, but it is highly recommended int he community.

    IT will NOT come vanilla with BGEE

    I would suggest you to try it out, but at this moment we are unsure of mod compatability for EE, lots of issues currently.

    Thank you a lot for your reply. I must ask...you're speaking on behalf of Overhaul Games? If yes that's fine I have no more questions, if not, when you say "we are unsure of mod compatability for EE, lots of issues currently." you are stating certain facts or just opinions that you read? In any case, thanks for the insight.
    I am not the voice of anyone but myself. But the fact of the matter is that the program we used to install mods, WEIDU, is not compatible with BGEE. One day when a new version is written then Modding will be alot easier. Until then there is a technical work-around we ("We" as in the BG community) will have to use to try and get mods to work, but it will be a hit or miss, either the mod will work or it will not.

    More about the workaround, here. http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/6950/player-how-to-getting-mods-to-work-on-bgee#latest
    You're getting my likes and my insight sir. Thanks.

    Always happy to help, when I can.
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Just be aware that BG2 presents very different problems than BG1. In BG1 you have far fewer resources or margin for error. For large parts of the game a surprise strong foe or ambush can literally one-shot you to death (especially if your play a non-melee character).
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645

    "Hard" and "Very Hard" are fake difficulties...they just add 50% and 100% damage.

    I keep it at core rules honestly. Others may not, but like you I hate simply having enemy buffs.

    Bad AI is bad.

    Isnt that how just about every RPG / video game is? Increased difficulty simply consists of any of the following:

    - More enemies
    - Higher level enemies
    - Enemies deal more damage
  • loganultimaloganultima Member Posts: 109
    Insane
  • Y3kY3k Member Posts: 14
    Zeckul said:


    Be careful what you wish for, however :) Spellcasters that use buffs and mind-affecting spells intelligently, archers that target the least protected NPCs systematically, thiefs that actually hide and backstab for double/triple damage (on your mage), etc., may all be "just AI", but they drastically affect difficulty nonetheless. Fortunately, SCS is a highly configurable mod so everyone should find a middle ground that's good for him.

    You are raising an interesting point...of course you are right when you say that such things affect difficulty by a lot..I think I'll give the game a first playthrough until SCS is fully updated to support BG:EE, so I try that mod with a little extra knowledge =)

  • Y3kY3k Member Posts: 14
    edited November 2012
    decado said:

    Just be aware that BG2 presents very different problems than BG1. In BG1 you have far fewer resources or margin for error. For large parts of the game a surprise strong foe or ambush can literally one-shot you to death (especially if your play a non-melee character).

    Hmm...I'm not sure I've fully understood what you mean....are you stating that having less resources or margin of error leads to an harder game or you're just saying that my question about ideal difficulty level/ SCS use is misplaced because it rests on a different conception of the game's mechanics? If that's the case what difficulty level would you raccomand? And about SCS?

    Insane

    what you mean?
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    depends... if you know how to utilize sleep and other enchantment spells, even insane can become easy, considering enemies will just lie down and be nice enough to let you beat 'em to death. without carrying around a few mages, however... my point is: insane is fun. you need to know what you're doing, but it can be very rewarding.

    BG2 was completely different combat wise, with the proper character (FMT, R/C), you could go play though it on insane without ever taking a scratch with proper defensive spells - in BG1, you either control the battlefield, or... well, you die.
  • loganultimaloganultima Member Posts: 109
    edited November 2012
    @Y3k Insane is the highest difficulty. I think you would feel most fulfilled if you beat the game on that one. Ofcourse people call it 'cheat' or 'fake' difficulty because of the double damage, though I think that adds a new layer of thought to all encounters.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    My recommendation is to stick with Core. You'll be re-loading enough as it is if you piss off grizzly bears or run into The Fastest Dart in The West before you're ready. Wait for an AI mod like Sword Coast Stratagems to be updated for EE, imo.
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054

    depends... if you know how to utilize sleep and other enchantment spells, even insane can become easy, considering enemies will just lie down and be nice enough to let you beat 'em to death. without carrying around a few mages, however... my point is: insane is fun. you need to know what you're doing, but it can be very rewarding.

    BG2 was completely different combat wise, with the proper character (FMT, R/C), you could go play though it on insane without ever taking a scratch with proper defensive spells - in BG1, you either control the battlefield, or... well, you die.

    I wonder if the 'sleeping foes awake upon being whacked' feature was added...
  • loganultimaloganultima Member Posts: 109
    I am gonna make my first playthrough on insane and the second one on the Sword Coast Stratagem thingy.
  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    You are in for a totally different experience. Your characters start extremely weak and vulnerable, low HP's, few spells, poor armor and weapons. A pack of wolves is a major threat for quite a while. A battle gone wrong is seldom recoverable at the beginning, because all it takes is 10/15 HP's to take you down. A kobold archer landing a critical and you're history.

    You'll need to be more cautious and wise in your options, you'll need to run from a fight much more often than BG2. Until you are able to meta-game out of experience, you'll reload often.
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    decado said:

    depends... if you know how to utilize sleep and other enchantment spells, even insane can become easy, considering enemies will just lie down and be nice enough to let you beat 'em to death. without carrying around a few mages, however... my point is: insane is fun. you need to know what you're doing, but it can be very rewarding.

    BG2 was completely different combat wise, with the proper character (FMT, R/C), you could go play though it on insane without ever taking a scratch with proper defensive spells - in BG1, you either control the battlefield, or... well, you die.

    I wonder if the 'sleeping foes awake upon being whacked' feature was added...
    yeah, that would be pretty cool, seeing as it worked that way in IWDs too - though it wouldn't make much difference, with the whole team banging on 'em, even if they awoke, chances are they'd be chunked by the time they could retaliate.
  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 556
    edited November 2012
    I think you should at least try a couple chapters of the game without mods on core rules difficulty, early level BG1 is a lot harder than BG2, you can die from a single bandit's arrow or a wolf bite, and you won't have many buffs, spells or potions when you first start out. So you might find that the vanilla experience is challenging enough for you. And if you don't, you'll still have to wait for SCS to update for BG:EE so you won't have lost anything. :)
  • ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,036
    edited November 2012

    @Y3k Insane is the highest difficulty. I think you would feel most fulfilled if you beat the game on that one. Ofcourse people call it 'cheat' or 'fake' difficulty because of the double damage, though I think that adds a new layer of thought to all encounters.

    In my experience, insane only makes a big difference in the early game where diseased gibberlings that do 8 damage per shot are totally not cool. However you level up faster due to increased monster spawns (at least that's how it was in BG1Tutu), so eventually it evens itself out.

    I'm not even sure how difficulty will work in BG:EE on release date; I suggest playing on Core Rules for the experienced and Normal for everyone else. As with everything else, this is something that is subject to change and improvement with later patches so don't despair if things aren't exactly to your liking on the 28th.

  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645

    Mungri said:

    "Hard" and "Very Hard" are fake difficulties...they just add 50% and 100% damage.

    I keep it at core rules honestly. Others may not, but like you I hate simply having enemy buffs.

    Bad AI is bad.

    Isnt that how just about every RPG / video game is? Increased difficulty simply consists of any of the following:

    - More enemies
    - Higher level enemies
    - Enemies deal more damage
    Just because its normal, doesn't make it good >.>
    I never did say it was good, its simply an unfortunate limitation to computer games. AI can't be programmed dynamically enough to make it play at a challenging enough level. One of the best examples is the Civilization series, when the difficulty is increased past the middle, the AI begins recieving bigger discounts, free units, cheaper maintenance and more production.

    I've always hated that games can't have an AI that provides a good challenge with the player on an equal footing.
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