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Archer, mayby range fighter?

Is bow archer still underwhelming in Throne of Bhaal? I mean do we have still problems with suplyiing ammo of 4+ or 5+ especially when aiming for bows? Mayby the fighter kited for archery is better. And also i never tried crossbow. Just feel bows are more flavour.

Comments

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,772
    An Archer is only marginally worse with a melee weapon than most other fighters. Worst-case scenario is you find your Archer doing a lot of melee combat by Throne of Bhaal. Not optimal but the character won't be awful or anything.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 3,647
    Playing solo an archer needs care because it's more difficult to get benefit from their unique abilities. In a party they're great though. The extra damage they do with ranged weapons allows them to keep up with melee characters, while the impact of called shot on saving throws makes it easy to take down many of the tougher enemies.

    You won't find +4/+5 ammunition for standard bows, but you don't need it. A high level archer will easily hit anything even using a non-proficient weapon, so you can switch to using a sling for the very few occasions where you need +4 - a GWW with one of those by an archer is devastating (assuming that they have decent strength). If you really want +4 at all times you could use the Firetooth crossbow.

    AerakarGreenWarlock
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 432
    edited June 30
    There is a mod in the mod section that allows to use the bow enchantment rather than the arrows. It highly increase the options for all bow user.

    If im right thats it:
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/58374/enchant-the-missile-launchers-ranged-weapon-tweak/p1

    Raduziel
  • masteralephmasteraleph Member Posts: 18
    1) It's not clear whether you're proposing a solo archer or an archer as a member of a party, and if the latter, how many party members are going to use missile weapons as well.

    2) Archers (and ranged characters in general) do less damage than melee PCs, at least if you're just running numbers. It's worth remembering, though, that ranged characters can start attacking earlier than melee ones, even with various haste effects, and that they can switch targets more quickly. In that regard, they're awesome support characters who are valuable in a team. Also, Archers are really, really accurage.

    3) Archers will outdamage most ranged fighters. Exceptions include Kensai using thrown weapons (which get a Strength bonus added on), though note that the best option there is the Firetooth Dagger and is a +3 weapon. If you need +4 to hit, Archers get another leg up. Alternatively, a Cleric of Lathander (who gets that +1 attack special ability)->Fighter with the appropriate sling is actually the highest, but even if you dual out at 15, you're severely limited on the number of times you can do it per day, and if you want to play through most of BG2 with fighter enabled, you actually want to dual earlier. Fighter -> Cleric using a sling can also be competitive when dualed at 13, though you want DUHM and Righteous Magic for stat boosts- they're easier to come by than the Lathander ability, though.

    4) The best damage calculations can be found on this thread. To summarize, though, Cleric of Lathander->Fighter wins on burst damage a couple of times per day, but will fall behind in general, Kensai with Fire Tooth dagger will be next, then Archer with Gesen (using Acid Arrows), followed relatively closely by Archer with Tuigan Bow and Acid Arrows, Archer with Light Crossbow of Speed and Bolts of Lightning, and Archer with Firetooth Crossbow and Bolts of Lightning. A Fighter->Cleric can keep up relatively will with low level boost spells, although obviously you're limited on the times per day you can do that. With Greater Whirlwind in the picture, Firetooth Crosbow and Archer with Errine Sling (if you have high STR) jump ahead. Note that Tuigan does have one big advantage- at high levels, without GWW, you need Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization on the others to put them where they are. Tuigan gets you to 5 APR on your own, so if you're in a party, that's a big plus for it.

    5) To sum all that up- ignoring the Cleric->Fighter combo (which you might or might not want to), if what you're mostly worried about is damage against tofu, Kensai + Fire Tooth will win (but can only hit up to +3). Otherwise, Archer + Gesen, Archer + Tuigan, or Archer + LCOS are all viable. If you do Watcher's Keep relatively early and build with high strength, Errine Sling, which is +4 and can be upgraded to +5, is an interesting backup weapon, especially in TOB.

    6) Note, though, that Archer has a couple of important advantages I didn't mention above. Called Shot can be very powerful. The THAC0 penalty can make it almost impossible for an enemy to hit. The stat penalty can kill an enemy outright, if their STR is low enough. Archers can use Vhailor's Helm, which gets you a Simulacrum. That not only lets you double your general damage output, but also gets your Called Shots- and Called Shot + GWW x2 will knock off pretty much anyone in the game. Same trick goes for Scorcher Ammunition, which hits twice, though that's a lot harder to pull off (if you have it, that would speak in favor of going with Crossbows). Also, Archers using elemental ammunition rip through Stoneskin and Mirror Image like no one else. A lot of high level enemies use something like Protection from Magic Weapons, but aren't protected against nonmagical ammo (note- some of/all of these may not work if you're using SCS).

    All of which is to say- Archers aren't as ridiculous as they are in BG1 or early BG2, but they're great support characters, solid damagers, and with the appropriate tricks, make bosses cry.

    Contemplative_Hamster
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 440

    3) Archers will outdamage most ranged fighters. Exceptions include Kensai using thrown weapons (which get a Strength bonus added on), though note that the best option there is the Firetooth Dagger and is a +3 weapon. If you need +4 to hit, Archers get another leg up. Alternatively, a Cleric of Lathander (who gets that +1 attack special ability)->Fighter with the appropriate sling is actually the highest, but even if you dual out at 15, you're severely limited on the number of times you can do it per day, and if you want to play through most of BG2 with fighter enabled, you actually want to dual earlier.

    4) The best damage calculations can be found on this thread. To summarize, though, Cleric of Lathander->Fighter wins on burst damage a couple of times per day, but will fall behind in general, Kensai with Fire Tooth dagger will be next, then Archer with Gesen (using Acid Arrows), followed relatively closely by Archer with Tuigan Bow and Acid Arrows, Archer with Light Crossbow of Speed and Bolts of Lightning, and Archer with Firetooth Crossbow and Bolts of Lightning.

    Huh, not every day you hear someone propose dual-classing OUT of a caster class to a non-caster.

    Valci
  • GreenWarlockGreenWarlock Member Posts: 1,304


    Huh, not every day you hear someone propose dual-classing OUT of a caster class to a non-caster.

    Dualiing from Druid (kit) to Fighter at the start of BG2 is one of my favorites. Druids get peak xp/level around level 11/12, which go for 200k and 300k respectively. This means you play the whole first game as a druid, and dual early enough into BG2 that you can comfortably spend that game thinking of yourself as a fighter, and really be only one level behind a pure fighter, and regain druid spells/abilities around the third act - notably iron skin.

    I don't have access to SoD to see how that would affect progression though (and please, no spoilers, I still hope it will come to the Mac App Store one day).

    Gusinda
  • SouplesseSouplesse Member Posts: 85
    -Kensai-half-orc-dagger is so so good.
    And when +3 is not enough, you can meele 10apr-critical strike with (for exemple) foeban/belm
    - if you don’t mind shadowkeeping, swash/war-dagger is very good too without kensai restriction (heaume/gauntlet/armor) + traps + backstabs : it’s insane ! And very fun to play ..

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