Archer, mayby range fighter?
murmandamus
Member Posts: 45
Is bow archer still underwhelming in Throne of Bhaal? I mean do we have still problems with suplyiing ammo of 4+ or 5+ especially when aiming for bows? Mayby the fighter kited for archery is better. And also i never tried crossbow. Just feel bows are more flavour.
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You won't find +4/+5 ammunition for standard bows, but you don't need it. A high level archer will easily hit anything even using a non-proficient weapon, so you can switch to using a sling for the very few occasions where you need +4 - a GWW with one of those by an archer is devastating (assuming that they have decent strength). If you really want +4 at all times you could use the Firetooth crossbow.
in ToB i like using the tuigan ( tugian? ) bow with +3 arrows for that extra attack per round, and again when you need a +4 weapon, just bust out gesen for when the time comes
in bg2 being fully proficient with short bows is much better than longbows strictly for the fact of tuigan and gesen bows, even though strong arm long bow is the most damaging longbow in the game ( ribald has it in the adventurer's mart in his normal wares ) the tuigan's extra attack per round outstrips that slight damage difference
plus in ToB if you want infinite +3 arrows, its quite easy:
- make sure the seller is selling packs of arrows x40 in his store
- notice how many he has in reserve ( make sure he never goes below 1 )
- buy a pack or two of arrows +3 x40 and then sell them back
- and then you will see his reserve go up by the amount you sold him back
so for example:
lets say the shopper dude in ToB that is in that forestry area outside of saradush has arrows+3 x 40 ( with 20 reserve packs of 40 ) you buy 2 pack of 40 and now he has 18 reserves of 40, you sell those packs of 40 back to him and now he will have 98 packs of 40, and you can just keep doing that over and over again to get as many packs of 40 as you need
this is also no sweat since there is so much money in ToB it's barely any extra cost ( usually when i start ToB coming from SoA i have at least 400 000 GP ) so money shouldnt be a problem, but one thing to note: do not steal the arrows and try and sell them back, since the holmes will not buy fenced goods
this trick also works with any ammuntion pack, so its great to use to get infinite bullets +4 as well
If im right thats it:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/58374/enchant-the-missile-launchers-ranged-weapon-tweak/p1
2) Archers (and ranged characters in general) do less damage than melee PCs, at least if you're just running numbers. It's worth remembering, though, that ranged characters can start attacking earlier than melee ones, even with various haste effects, and that they can switch targets more quickly. In that regard, they're awesome support characters who are valuable in a team. Also, Archers are really, really accurage.
3) Archers will outdamage most ranged fighters. Exceptions include Kensai using thrown weapons (which get a Strength bonus added on), though note that the best option there is the Firetooth Dagger and is a +3 weapon. If you need +4 to hit, Archers get another leg up. Alternatively, a Cleric of Lathander (who gets that +1 attack special ability)->Fighter with the appropriate sling is actually the highest, but even if you dual out at 15, you're severely limited on the number of times you can do it per day, and if you want to play through most of BG2 with fighter enabled, you actually want to dual earlier. Fighter -> Cleric using a sling can also be competitive when dualed at 13, though you want DUHM and Righteous Magic for stat boosts- they're easier to come by than the Lathander ability, though.
4) The best damage calculations can be found on this thread. To summarize, though, Cleric of Lathander->Fighter wins on burst damage a couple of times per day, but will fall behind in general, Kensai with Fire Tooth dagger will be next, then Archer with Gesen (using Acid Arrows), followed relatively closely by Archer with Tuigan Bow and Acid Arrows, Archer with Light Crossbow of Speed and Bolts of Lightning, and Archer with Firetooth Crossbow and Bolts of Lightning. A Fighter->Cleric can keep up relatively will with low level boost spells, although obviously you're limited on the times per day you can do that. With Greater Whirlwind in the picture, Firetooth Crosbow and Archer with Errine Sling (if you have high STR) jump ahead. Note that Tuigan does have one big advantage- at high levels, without GWW, you need Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization on the others to put them where they are. Tuigan gets you to 5 APR on your own, so if you're in a party, that's a big plus for it.
5) To sum all that up- ignoring the Cleric->Fighter combo (which you might or might not want to), if what you're mostly worried about is damage against tofu, Kensai + Fire Tooth will win (but can only hit up to +3). Otherwise, Archer + Gesen, Archer + Tuigan, or Archer + LCOS are all viable. If you do Watcher's Keep relatively early and build with high strength, Errine Sling, which is +4 and can be upgraded to +5, is an interesting backup weapon, especially in TOB.
6) Note, though, that Archer has a couple of important advantages I didn't mention above. Called Shot can be very powerful. The THAC0 penalty can make it almost impossible for an enemy to hit. The stat penalty can kill an enemy outright, if their STR is low enough. Archers can use Vhailor's Helm, which gets you a Simulacrum. That not only lets you double your general damage output, but also gets your Called Shots- and Called Shot + GWW x2 will knock off pretty much anyone in the game. Same trick goes for Scorcher Ammunition, which hits twice, though that's a lot harder to pull off (if you have it, that would speak in favor of going with Crossbows). Also, Archers using elemental ammunition rip through Stoneskin and Mirror Image like no one else. A lot of high level enemies use something like Protection from Magic Weapons, but aren't protected against nonmagical ammo (note- some of/all of these may not work if you're using SCS).
All of which is to say- Archers aren't as ridiculous as they are in BG1 or early BG2, but they're great support characters, solid damagers, and with the appropriate tricks, make bosses cry.
I don't have access to SoD to see how that would affect progression though (and please, no spoilers, I still hope it will come to the Mac App Store one day).
And when +3 is not enough, you can meele 10apr-critical strike with (for exemple) foeban/belm
- if you don’t mind shadowkeeping, swash/war-dagger is very good too without kensai restriction (heaume/gauntlet/armor) + traps + backstabs : it’s insane ! And very fun to play ..