Thieving with good team and lawful leader.

murmandamus

How do you justyfy thievieng in good team especially if i am lawfull good char. Say is it resonable to say imoen sneak of inn at night to grab some loot but wouldnt lawfull good char forbid her to do or thieving in party at all?

Abi_Dalzim

Depends. I'd say dungeons and property of bad guys are fair game for looting, but you won't really miss the proceeds from breaking into inns or temples or the homes of random civilians. The game doesn't lack for gold anyways, especially if you maintain a high reputation.

BelgarathMTH

If Imoen suddenly offered my paladin, say, an incredibly powerful and obviously valuable Stupifier mace, I'd ask her where she got that. So no, I wouldn't let Imoen steal it, and no Stupifier mace for me or anyone in my party.

I guess if you just can't play without various stolen magic items, you could "roleplay" that Imoen lied to you about it being stolen. It'd have to be an awfully good lie, though, to an awfully low intelligence paladin, and I don't think it really fits her character.

You'll have to fight it out on the bloody battlefield of your own conscience.

murmandamus

Never said i am paladin this time elf archer. So i considering Immy sneak out to loot some things.

ThacoBell

You can't steal as a lawful character. If you HAVE to steal from people, rp a different alignment.

Abi_Dalzim

ThacoBell said:

You can't steal as a lawful character. If you HAVE to steal from people, rp a different alignment.

If that's true, then they shouldn't allow lawful thieves at all.

murmandamus

Abi_Dalzim Thieves cannot create to be lawfull

ThacoBell

Abi_Dalzim said:

ThacoBell said:

You can't steal as a lawful character. If you HAVE to steal from people, rp a different alignment.

If that's true, then they shouldn't allow lawful thieves at all.

Well, you can't.

Abi_Dalzim

Feh. Alignment is like the Houses at Hogwarts: it conceals more than it reveals, and people overinterpret it as the most important thing about a character.

Balthazar is Lawful Good, yet he engages in lying, oppression, genocide, and neglecting his sworn duty as the protector of his village. Korgan is Chaotic Evil, and yet he pesters you about Tolgerias' contract if you neglect it, and is never tempted to betray the party for money/power/the lulz. If alignment is the most important thing about your character, than unless it's a Planescape character, that character is underwritten.

Chronicler

ThacoBell said:

Abi_Dalzim said:

ThacoBell said:

You can't steal as a lawful character. If you HAVE to steal from people, rp a different alignment.

If that's true, then they shouldn't allow lawful thieves at all.

Well, you can't.

Thieves can be Lawful Neutral and Lawful Evil. Just not Lawful Good.

Chronicler

I think we tend to roleplay these groups as a bit more cohesive than most adventuring groups in fiction are.

With the format of this game, there's a very real sense that you are the character you create at the start of the game, and all other party members are puppets completely subject to your will.

If this was an episode of One Piece for example, everybody would come into town, split up, go on a series of adventures following vastly different agendas before eventually converging into whatever larger quest the city offers. Lots of stuff would get lost in the shuffle. Somebody comes back with some trinket, maybe they bought it, maybe they stole it, maybe they helped some local who rewarded them with it, maybe they got into a brawl and killed its previous owner, you're ultimately gonna have to take their word on it.

That kind of gameplay is just a bit much though, when you're one man controlling up to six characters. You tend to move your crew around as a group. Treat them as a sort of hive mind that is always in full cooperation using each of their strengths to achieve your singular goal.

ThacoBell

Abi_Dalzim said:

Feh. Alignment is like the Houses at Hogwarts: it conceals more than it reveals, and people overinterpret it as the most important thing about a character.

Balthazar is Lawful Good, yet he engages in lying, oppression, genocide, and neglecting his sworn duty as the protector of his village. Korgan is Chaotic Evil, and yet he pesters you about Tolgerias' contract if you neglect it, and is never tempted to betray the party for money/power/the lulz. If alignment is the most important thing about your character, than unless it's a Planescape character, that character is underwritten.

Balthazar was also struggling (and losing) against the Bhaal taint. You know, that series wide corrupting influence. A character can act against alignment, and there are consequences to this in pnp. Korgan is also a professional mercenary, alignment is a general disposition, not a job indicator. It also fits, because killing just happens to be what Korgan enjoys most. Chaotic just means you act on your own impulses, regardless of local laws.

Chronicler

ThacoBell said:

A character can act against alignment

ThacoBell said:

You can't steal as a lawful character. If you HAVE to steal from people, rp a different alignment.

???

ThacoBell

Chronicler said:

ThacoBell said:

A character can act against alignment

ThacoBell said:

You can't steal as a lawful character. If you HAVE to steal from people, rp a different alignment.

???

Yup, that does look nonsensical doesn't it? I'm referring specifically to the op's question on how to RP lawful good while stealing. And you can't. As the act of stealing is not lawful good. They COULD rp a character who maybe starts as lawful good, but has trouble maintaining it. Or who isn't lawful good, but wants to be, even if they aren't very good at it. Its worth noting that acting against alignment in the original source rules, would eventually change your alignment. So you can't consistently act against your alignment, if you wish to actually be that alignment. The op seems to imply that they want to justify the act of stealing in general, which is impossible to consistenly do while staying lawful, let alone good.

Balrog99

ThacoBell said:

Chronicler said:

ThacoBell said:

A character can act against alignment

ThacoBell said:

You can't steal as a lawful character. If you HAVE to steal from people, rp a different alignment.

???

Yup, that does look nonsensical doesn't it? I'm referring specifically to the op's question on how to RP lawful good while stealing. And you can't. As the act of stealing is not lawful good. They COULD rp a character who maybe starts as lawful good, but has trouble maintaining it. Or who isn't lawful good, but wants to be, even if they aren't very good at it. Its worth noting that acting against alignment in the original source rules, would eventually change your alignment. So you can't consistently act against your alignment, if you wish to actually be that alignment. The op seems to imply that they want to justify the act of stealing in general, which is impossible to consistenly do while staying lawful, let alone good.

That's the very reason I usually choose a chaotic alignment. Any justification can be rp'd when you're chaotic! My favorite characters tend to be Cavaliers though, so my justification becomes intelligence as a dump stat...

DrakeICN

Just steal from people / organisations that deserve it, like Baron Ployer and the Iron Throne. Now, you murder and pillage your war through both in any case, but uh, surely there are others?

10Bazza11

I am playing a neutral good Cleric of Lathander at the moment and want to duel to a Ranger at level 11 for RP reasons. I just had to have the Stupifier mace though. I know it is wrong for good characters to break into someone's chest and steal their nice shiny mace, but my thought process to get round this was the person the mace belonged to was incredibly obnoxious and rude to Imoen so she took it on her self to borrow the mace to teach them a lesson. I catch her with the mace and she says she found it and wanted to give it to me as a present.

It works for me and Imoen has not broken into or stolen any thing since, so I guess she has learnt her lesson.

dunbar

One way to allow the party thief independent action (i.e. do something that the party leader doesn't 'know' about) is to "gather your party" at an inn, send the thief off alone to do some skullduggery, return and then rest the party. That way you can simulate that the thief did it while everyone else was asleep.

ThacoBell

dunbar said:

One way to allow the party thief independent action (i.e. do something that the party leader doesn't 'know' about) is to "gather your party" at an inn, send the thief off alone to do some skullduggery, return and then rest the party. That way you can simulate that the thief did it while everyone else was asleep.

And noone is going to ask the thief where all the extra loot came from?

dunbar

"I just found it lying there guv, honest!"

Edit: Back in my PnP days we (as players) didn't know what was in each others packs, only the DM knew exactly what was going on.

Chronicler

ThacoBell said:

dunbar said:

One way to allow the party thief independent action (i.e. do something that the party leader doesn't 'know' about) is to "gather your party" at an inn, send the thief off alone to do some skullduggery, return and then rest the party. That way you can simulate that the thief did it while everyone else was asleep.

And noone is going to ask the thief where all the extra loot came from?

"Career thief who's a terrible liar" would be an interesting roleplay if I had some Pen and Paper buddies to play with, I imagine.

DrakeICN

dunbar said:

"I just found it lying there guv, honest!"

Edit: Back in my PnP days we (as players) didn't know what was in each others packs, only the DM knew exactly what was going on.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RZl9KcSywos