Making the most out of a multi mage/thief gnome

dtaquet

First of all, Thank you so much for all the advice you have been posting on this forum. It has been a pleasure lately to go home after a long days work and relax on the site.

I have to decided to play with a multi mage/thief gnome for my first time with the game, partly because it seems like a very underrated build and because backstabbing and lock picking seem very much, while having access to magic is exciting.

What advice could you give me to enjoy my gnome the most?

What stats should I aim for at creation?

What are this character's weaknesses and strengths?

Thank you!

moody_mage

First off it'll be an Illusionist/Thief.

If you are min-maxing you'll want to aim for a least the following;

STR: whatever
DEX: 18
CON: 18
INT: 19
WIS: whatever
CHA: whatever

Higher STR obviously means more damage and carrying capacity so good to have. WIS has no bearing on anything if you are not casting clerical spells (saving throw adjustments are not in game I think) and CHA is always nice to have but hardly essential. So those three stats can really be whatever you want.

The 18 CON will give you an extra +1 to your saving throws. You can also use a certain item which deducts some CON points without affecting your HP pool. If you are stretched for stat points you could always start on 17 CON and rely on a tome to increase your CON score by 1 to reach the 18 required.

CaptRory

You should try to hit at least 8 strength or you won't be able to carry your gear +Potions and Wands.

You should aim for a high WIS, as it will help in the next game with casting Wish and Limited Wish.

The PC doesn't have to be the party's spokesman, so you don't need a high Charisma yourself. But it is helpful.

Time4Tiddy

One thing to consider - there is no benefit to having a 20 intelligence beyond some additional points in lore. You absolutely want 19 because it allows you to learn all spells and you won't fail when scribing to your spell book.

So, if you start with 19, and discover any items in game that might permanently raise your Intelligence, DON'T waste them on your PC that already has 19 Int. Instead that item might be given to any of the NPC mages, who CAN benefit from it - or, it might be used to make Safana into a dual thief->mage (she starts one Int point too low to dual w/o). Safana is actually a very fun alternative to the "canon" dualled Imoen - she has much more fun dialogues and party banter, and you can still get her right away in the game while she hasn't earned too much xp.

dtaquet

Thank you! Does Playing a multi class with 4 or 5 other NPC allow for enough experience to reach a goodgood illusionist level with my gnome? Or should I only keep three companions at most?

CaptRory

You shouldn't have any trouble hitting the experience cap with a full group even multiclassed. There's enough content to burn through even before the stuff was added for this edition.

dtaquet

Great! I cannot wait to get my hands on the game once it reaches the Japanese app store.

paulsifer42

Thanks for posting this. I was thinking of playing the same build.

I have an additional question: Should we play this character mostly as a mage (back row)? I assume we don't want him/her wearing armor, as he/she needs to cast spells.

dtaquet

That is true but wouldn't it defeat the purpose of the thief as a scout and bsckstabber?

paulsifer42

dtaquet said:

That is true but wouldn't it defeat the purpose of the thief as a scout and bsckstabber?

This is exactly my point. For role-playing reasons I love the idea of the little gnome who picks locks and sneaks around while casing illusions to mess with people, but I haven't figured out the best way to play him so he doesn't die all the time and is useful in combat.

paulsifer42

Where are our min/maxers? I figured someone would jump at the chance to tell us how to make this gnome work.

dtaquet

I think we would indeed benefit greatly from some advice concerning thieving skills and good spells. But discovering it by ourselves it probably a lot of fun.

paulsifer42

Oh, I plan on playing my gnome regardless of anyone answering our request. I'm sure we'll figure it out and have a blast doing it.

paulsifer42

The figuring might get a little frustrating, but that'll be fine.

dtaquet

I cannot help
but feel that over analyzing , looking for the perfect way to play adds a lot of useless stress. When I first played the game 10 years ago, I did not know of any forums or walkthrough. Still I had a blast (and did not understand 99% of what I was doing).

paulsifer42

Oh, I was the same way back then. Rangers and thieves were my MO. I don't care so much about trying to make the 'best' character ever, but not dying every encounter would be nice and is really what I'm wondering about.

dtaquet

True. I guess I want to understand enough of what I am doing to be able to pull fun techniques like invisibility and backstabbing and such. Having these wow moments and being able to pull them off if I try hard enough.

Space_hamster

at mage/thief combo only starts to become strong around lvl 4. He'll be like a new born baby out there in the wilderness! Hire some muscle to protect his soft body!

sandmanCCL

You don't need armor. You can stealth pretty easily without it just by utilizing Invisibility as a level 2 spell. It lets you scout out a whole area (it lasts 24 hours per cast) or can be use mid-combat if you can't get out of sight if you want to disappear to try and land another backstab.

Space_hamster

dtaquet said:

True. I guess I want to understand enough of what I am doing to be able to pull fun techniques like invisibility and backstabbing and such. Having these wow moments and being able to pull them off if I try hard enough.

IMO, the fun of it is just trying. You'll get it eventually. There is nothing like your first playthrough. It's epic! Don't read spoilers!

CaptRory

Potions of Invisibility are AWESOME for thieves. If you only choose one potion to stockpile for your thieves, potions of invisibilty. "Oh shit!" *Glugluglug Gulp* *Vanishes*

dtaquet

Does that mean we should not put points in the stealth skills such as hide in shadows or move silently?

Space_hamster

dtaquet said:

Does that mean we should not put points in the stealth skills such as hide in shadows or move silently?

It's up to you. Potions of invisibility aren't cheap, so if you have good stealth it could save you big money. Also, you can't hide in shadows when someone is attacking you, so quaffing a potion mid-battle, then running away comes in handy.

ryuken87

Since you don't have enough points for everything and stealth requires twice the number of points to be effective as other skills, yes I'd skip it and use spells and potions to sneak around and backstab.

By the end of the game you will have enough points to max three skills and have a few points left over. So pick locks, find/disarm traps and set traps or detect illusion.

dtaquet

So is it probably a good idea to keep a pure thief around for early lock picking and trap detection?

CaptRory

You can recruit Imoen right outside of the starting area. With three levels of Rogue, you can max Imoen's Find Traps. With two levels it's at 75/100. Then dual class her to mage. She can cover your entire requirement for finding traps giving you time to build it up on your own. You can even put off developing your own find traps skill til the next game.

I'd strongly recommend maxing out your own Pick Locks skill when you make your character. There is at least oen very hard to unlock drawer in Candlekeep with a gem in it that helps with starting gear =3

Oxford_Guy

CaptRory said:

You can recruit Imoen right outside of the starting area. With three levels of Rogue, you can max Imoen's Find Traps. With two levels it's at 75/100. Then dual class her to mage. She can cover your entire requirement for finding traps giving you time to build it up on your own. You can even put off developing your own find traps skill til the next game.

I thought you needed more than 75 in Find Traps for Durlag's Tower and Candlekeep Catacombs, at least?

CaptRory

You can chug a potion of Insight if you need more. You'd prolly wanna take her to level 3 just to simplify it.

Time4Tiddy

My understanding is that Elven Chain has been added to the loot tables somewhere in BG:EE - this is an armor that a thief-mage can wear and still cast spells. Not sure where it will be or how early you can get it, though.

dtaquet

Stupid question: what is a loot table?

CaptRory

A loot table is something that is rolled on to determine what kind of loot is produced.

Like, "Okay, there's a goblin. He has... *rolls 1d100 and looks at a chart* "A low value gem and a short sword."