What are bards for?
Question2
Member Posts: 74
Their fighting ability is about the same as a thief, which is pretty bad...except that a fighter/thief multi or dual class is decent with a composite longbow. A level 9 fighter dual classing to a thief can get grandmastery in longbows which makes a huge difference.
They can wear chain, which is cool...except that you cant cast spells in armour anyway...and a fighter/mage can do the same thing, except better...
Bard song is pretty much useless when you have a level 1 cleric spell that does the same thing, and doesnt require you to have a party member stand around while using it.
Pickpockets is pretty much useless...about the only thing you really need it for in BG 1 is Algernon's cloak, which can be gotten by having a thief drink a potion of master thievery without putting any points into pickpockets.
Really, what are they meant to do that other classes cant do better?
They can wear chain, which is cool...except that you cant cast spells in armour anyway...and a fighter/mage can do the same thing, except better...
Bard song is pretty much useless when you have a level 1 cleric spell that does the same thing, and doesnt require you to have a party member stand around while using it.
Pickpockets is pretty much useless...about the only thing you really need it for in BG 1 is Algernon's cloak, which can be gotten by having a thief drink a potion of master thievery without putting any points into pickpockets.
Really, what are they meant to do that other classes cant do better?
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I've taken a plain melee bard all the way through the serise. Self buffs and good gear and they can slaughter alongside the fighters quite well. They also make great secondary casters, memorizing the usefull utility spells that your primary mage just doesn't have time for. Or you can just give them the "I win spells" themselves. A Bard with Sleep and a bow is very dangerous through all of BG1. Give them level scaling spells, as those will ALWAYS be stronger in the hands of a Bard than a mage. They can also use all wands and spell scrolls, thats a LOT of arcae might. Oh, and that useless pickpockets? It gets you MUCH more than Algernon's cloak. They can reliably steal from STORES without ever spending a single thieving point. Not to mention that when you reach epic levels, they also get "Use Any Item" which means the Bard can use ANY ITEM. Boom.
The Bard song is in a class of its own though. Its scales with level. Giving fear immunities and incfreasingly better luck scores as you level. A singing Bard makes every other character in the party at least 1.5x better. In a six person party, thats the equivalent power of 2.5 more party members. That more than makes up for a single passive slot.
Bards have the single most varied kit of any singleclass character, and while that makes them more complicated and difficult to use to their full potential, once you master them, they are MONSTERS that can use literaslly any tactic to handle literally any encounter in the game. Fear the Bard.
The filler Thief without being a Thief.
Filler Mage without being a mage.
Filler warrior (Blade) without being a warrior.
Instead of having another specialized character, or a multiclass character that eats double or triple the xp, you get a Bard that does a bit of both, freeing up resources for the rest of the classes.
With a Bard you get the higher Lore I believe, while having Pick Pocket for when you need it without having to invest the skill points in a Thief and you get an utility mage, when your main mage can focus on other stuff.
Plus their Bard song can be a decent little free boost.
They don't belong in a party of four (Warrior/Thief/Priest/Mage), they're the fifth party member that supports the others.
Bardic Wonders is a nice collection of kits as well.
Travis Hansen's take on bards here, esp. those that want to focus on their songs for a group (or those with songs that summon creatures or charm):
I find they're that bit of everything from all the major classes, especially as a blade. Your spells are stronger than a mage's, you can use any weapon, and pick pocket. Even at higher levels, where you're thac0 and number attacks might hurt you, you get Tenser's Transformation and and Improved Haste. Bards take a lot of micro management but with buffs can do anything.
I like to give Garrick longbow proficiency - he's not too bad as a backup archer once you've found the magic longbow. Aside from that, any difficult looking fight, he is using fireball or monster summoning wands.
He gets better if you can find him some elven chain armour but even without that, scrolls and wands are so abundant that it doesn't really matter a great deal if he can't cast his own spells due to wearing armour. Even in that situation, he can be useful with Identify and Knock spells which you won't be casting in combat so temporarily removing his armour isn't an issue.
There probably isn't a role for a bard if you have a small party, but if you are filling all six slots, then it becomes not so much a question of "is a bard good?" as "is there anyone else who can fill that sixth slot and bring more to the party that you've not already got?".
I dont know why you would feel the need to include a bard. A 4 man party covering fighter, cleric, mage and thief roles is more than enough for BG 1 and SOD.
The bard cant fulfill the thief role due to not having access to all thief skills, so you still need a thief. They dont even make decent secondary fighters the way a cleric can. That basically means you got a mage with slightly better weapons and hp, but you still cant wear armor.
If you could cast spells in armor without needing elven chainmail, then yea, bards might have a role. The problem is...fighter/mages (or a dual class) would be able to do the same, except having way better HP, THACO and proficiencies...
The fundamental issue is that their niche (bard song) is replicated by a level 1 cleric spell....and since you pretty much need a cleric anyway (the game gets very annoying without one), they dont get anything special.
IIRC pathfinder bards can fight and use bard song at the same time, which buffs the entire party with bonuses to attack and saving throws. Thats a useful niche. If AD&D bards were closer to that, they would have a clear role.
Especially being able to cast mage spells as a 10th level caster in the later stages of the game is extremely useful - his magic missiles and chromatic orbs can be devastating.
I love bards, but I hate blue cheese
As for elven chainmail...well you don't really need it, magical defensive bracers are good enough, and they're fairly common in BG1 & 2.
"I dont know why you would feel the need to include a bard. A 4 man party covering fighter, cleric, mage and thief roles is more than enough for BG 1 and SOD."
This is true. Its also true that you don't need a fighter, or a thief, or a cleric, or a mage, or any other class in the game. You don't even need a 4 man party, as any class can solo the game. You use a Bard because they fill multiple roles comparable to a multiclass but without the slower leveling. You use a bard because they are so flexible. You use a Bard because they are fun.