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Another sorc spell pick thread (SCS)

Hi guys.
I've installed SCS recently and now suffering a bit, so really would appreciate your help (anyone who managed to pass this game solo as sorc with scs installed is welcome here). Currently i'm in chapter 2.
Here is my current one:

1) Magic missile > Shield > Protection from petrification > Chromatic orb > Friends
2) Melf's acid arrow > Knock > Mirror Image > Invisibility > Resist fear
3) Skull trap > Haste > Protection from fire > Spell thrust > Remove magic
4) Stoneskin > Minor globe of invulnerability > Secret word > Polymorph other > Greater malison
5) Spell Immunity > Animate dead > Breach > Spell shield > Feeblemind
6) Mislead > Pierce magic > True sight > PfMW > Protection from magic energy
7) Project image > Morde sword > Ruby Ray > Spell sequencer > Spell turning
8) ADHW > Pierce shield > Spell trigger > Simulacrum
9) Chain contingency > Time Stop > Imprisonment > Wish


My problems:
1) Demogorgon (without skull trap + 3x Pierce magic from spell trigger cheese).
Storm of vengeance instantly destroys my project image, my main character is unable to cast anything because he's poisoned, my simulacra is getting dunked by his melee attack ( pfmw only helps agains his physical attack but still poison goes through and disrupts), he is ignoring my summons, except for planetar, which is getting destroyed in like 2 rounds or so. Time stop makes me dead even faster ( he is killing my planetar in less then 1 round and then just goes straight for my character)

2) Kangaxx. Again - i cant use project image (he casts cloudkill/incendiary cloud and PI is instantly destroyed then casts Time stop ->spell thrust > spellstrike and i'm dead after that. Sometimes he gates pit fiend which constantly disrupts my spellcasting with lightning bolts. Plus for some odd reason he casts time stop twice as fast as i can =\

Is there some problem with my spell picks or i just simply don't understand how sorc should be played ? Any advises ?

Comments

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 445
    Judging from your picks, and particularly the order of the picks, you maybe do not understand the spell system well enough to handle SCS. If you want a detailed spellguide, you could read this if you wish: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/36604/bg2-solo-scs-spell-guide/p1

    You need to prioritise defensive spells, you cannot leave stuff like Mirror Image, SpellShield and PFMW as third or fourth picks. Remove Magic as last pick for level 3 is bizarre, considering it should probably be 1st pick. You are also missing important spells like Improved Invisibility and Improved Haste.

    For setpiece battles like demogorgon or kangaxx, you need to have impenetrable defences; that is, no matter what they do they cannot harm you. That means infallible saving throws (e.g. via Potion of Magic Shielding), protection from whatever elemental attacks they might use (e.g. why should poison ever be an issue around demogorgon? A single green Protection from Poison scroll would have made you immune), total weapon defences (Stoneskin/Mirror Image and then PFMW at all times once battle starts), total spell defences (Spell Trap/SI Abjuration/MGoI etc) and Spell Shield at all times on top of that (as soon as it is dispelled you have to recast it).

    Only once you are immune to what your opponent can do should you think about casting offensive spells. Turning up with a few prebuffs and thinking you can start with Project Image and then unleash your offensive spells just isn’t going to work.

    BrightL1ghts
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488
    Hard to say what works as i don't know what SCS options you have installed, if you have basically turned everything on then, well, good luck, lol.

    Are you flopping on the 1st Kangaxx form or the Demi-Lich form? Considering you have to kill at least 2 Liches to trigger the encounter i'm gonna be surprised if you are struggling on the Lich version...I haven't played with all the options turned on (yet), but it is worth noting that he's still undead and Scroll of Prot.Undead will prevent him seeing/targeting you. He'll probably try using summons and AoE, but you may be able to chip him down using the +5 sling assuming you didn't turn on the delay special merchants option.

    Also worth noting that Liches by default can see through illusions, so it is likely there is a per round check for them to effectively dispel your sim/PI merely by looking at it, try equipping the cloak of non-detection or casting non-detection or using the scroll of prot.Undead, because it's an invisibility effect that he cannot see through by default.

    As for Demogorgon then i would have to ask why are you not immune to poison by that point? Focus on getting your Ring of Gaxx and the problem is solved, if not then use a green scroll, there's like 20+ of them available through-out the game. You're gonna need to do over 290 damage to drop him and have a way to prevent the Implosion he casts from stunning you, all whilst keeping off his pack of Mariliths, without stacking up a bunch of skull traps at his spawn point (or at strategic points in the room) it's a real struggle for a solo mage especially since he has resistances to most elemental types except for Acid and sadly there's not really a lot of acid damage potential, certainly not 290 HP's worth in a short time frame lol.

    I haven't tried him with all the SCS options turned on, but usually i opt for some form of variance on the Sequencer 3x lower resist/pierce magic followed by either skull traps, ADHWx3 via Chain contingency or my personal favourite which is Wish and hope that i get one of the ADHW on everyone in the area offerings (whilst i have Prot.Magical energy obviously). Generally speaking if the fight lasts more than 2 rounds i'll end up getting owned and having to reload, mainly because Implosion drains out Spell turning/Spell Trap and it's next to impossible to get another cast mid-fight.

    As for spell picks then i'll give a quick summary:

    Shield - Useless pick once you get the Amulet of shielding
    Friends - Unlikely to need money, not particularly useful
    I would switch out 1 of the above for Protection from Evil so you can prevent summoned demons from attacking you.

    Resist Fear i would switch for Horror, it's a very useful CC spell for trash and Emotion at level 4 is a better Fear protector, assuming it's been fixed in 2.5 to actually apply it's secondary effect. if you plan to use Staff of the Magi then no need to take invisibility.

    I think i would switch Spell thrust for Prot.Cold or maybe Slow, it's pretty rare you need to use ST specifically, usually i would be using Ruby Ray although i loath wasting 7th level slots as it's my PI stash.

    Secret Word and Poly other are not spells i would pick for a Sorc, IMO you want Fireshield/Coldshield, at least 1 of them anyway, plus Emotion combined with Greater Malison is actually highly amusing.

    I would say Animate Dead and Feeblemind are options for changing, both solid and useful, but at your level Planetars out-perform and do not need buffing and the longer you go in the game the easier Skele Warriors get to combat for enemies since most will attack with magical weapons. I do like Lower Resistance because you can put them into sequencers and they are very effective and save using 6th level slots which i cast tons of due to PfMW.

    I don't think you need Mislead if you use Staff of the Magi and Pierce magic is perhaps optional. You can probably use Wands of breaching since they have a PM charge and even though they don't hold many charges it should be enough.

    I think Shapechange will be more useful than Imprisonment especially since you have TimeStop, but you may want to jiggle with your 6th level slots for Imp.Haste and/or Tensors so you can improve your shapechange (or slayer form) APR, either during Time Stop or just in general.

    Hopefully something will help :)

    BrightL1ghts
  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 10
    Thanks for a fast reply! I did read your guide about solo scs sorc and it rocks!


    You need to prioritise defensive spells, you cannot leave stuff like Mirror Image, SpellShield and PFMW as third or fourth picks. Remove Magic as last pick for level 3 is bizarre, considering it should probably be 1st pick. You are also missing important spells like Improved Invisibility and Improved Haste.

    Remove magic almost never works for me on early levels. I've tried picking it up as soon as possible but breach is usually more reliable (for me at least) in terms of removing Protection from Fire/Cold/Electricity and Protection from magic energy.

    Didn't take Improved Invis because i have mislead on lvl 6 (i found it to be far superior to Improved Invis, even considering it was fixed in Enchanced Edition), so i'm using mislead to be untargetable.

    I've never tried improved haste (always thought that i'm sorc after all, not a melee fighter). Is it good for a solo sorcerer ? I mean how should i use it?


    For setpiece battles like demogorgon or kangaxx, you need to have impenetrable defences; that is, no matter what they do they cannot harm you. That means infallible saving throws (e.g. via Potion of Magic Shielding), protection from whatever elemental attacks they might use (e.g. why should poison ever be an issue around demogorgon? A single green Protection from Poison scroll would have made you immune), total weapon defences

    Main problem with demogorgon is not exactly his damage, it's more about the fact that i can't cast at all. At the beginning of the fight he throws that damn Storm of Vengeance, even if i'm completely immune to everything (Electricity, Acid, Poison), it still interrupts my spellcasting (does no damage though). Same applies to his melee attack. Pfmw blocks his huge physical damage, elemental protections are blocking his elemental part of damage. But when he hits and elemental damage gets blocked i'm still getting interrupted. It's same as standing in incendiary cloud while being immune to fire - it does no damage, but interrupts every round.

    With kangaxx it feels more doable, since he's alone without a swarm of overpowered Glabrezu's. I'm usually starting to fail miserably after his incendiary cloud/gate or timestop. Once he gated and did incendiary cloud i can't cast my own timestop, because that freaking lighting bolt is interrupting me every round

    I guess robe of vecna could fix my problems but i don't know where is it in scs.

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 10
    Borek, thanks for your reply!

    No, I'm dealing with regular liches without any problems. And no, I have no access to items like robe of vecna, +5 sling etc.
    As for lvl 1 picks - I'm not really using lvl 1 spells except for MM/Protection from petrification, so that doesn't really matter much.
    As for switching resist fear - I can't play without it, it's my personal "must have".
    Also I don't want to drop spell thrust, it can drop down spell shield, and can remove all of the spell immunities in 1 round, I really like this spell and I'm using it very often.
    As for Fireshield/Coldshield - good point, I was thinking about taking them, but ended up with "oh my, I will have to cast 2 more buffs, now way" :smile:

    About Lower resist - glad that you really noticed. For me, this spell is simply not working on anything I want to use it for. It doesn't work on Kangaxx/Golems/Rakshasa/Demogorgon/Regular liches and some other creatures aswell. And i don't want to take spell slot just to kill some dragons earlier. Pierce Magic on the other hand works almost on anything, that's why i've picked it up.

    It's true that animate undead and feeblemind are somewhat useless. But at least you can use animate undead to tank a lot of spells. (Works even on scs liches)

    Also mislead is by far one of my favorite spells, because you are immune to 95% of enemies in the game while decoy is alive. And Staff of magi doesn't have invisibility in scs (at least in my installation).

    About Shapeshifting you are probably right. I'm just not really familiar with tensor's and shapeshifting in general. I'm not a veteran, that's why i'm here and asking. Took imprisonment just to get rid of Pit fiends/Planetars and all that resistant bullshit.

    And as you mentioned about stacking skull traps - i'm trying to avoid this at all cost, obviously when i'm getting too stressed i'm just stacking them and doing 3x pierce magic from a spell triger (more reliable than 3x pierce shield from chain contingency) and he's instantly dead. But that doesn't change the fact that i can't beat him in a fair fight. Without SCS he was easy - simulacra with chain contingency (3x pierce shield) and your character with chain contingency (3x adhw), after it triggers, just time stop and bye-bye prince of demons, because he was dumb and kept hitting simulacrum under pfmw.




    Post edited by BrightL1ghts on
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488
    Yeah that's why i said it was hard to answer w/o knowing your SCS options, it's very easy to have 1 SCS option ruin viable strategies haha

    AFAIK the wands that have Breach and Pierce Magic (the ones with like 6 charges each, mainly found in WK) WILL work on creatures otherwise immune to Breach/LR due to their special immunities, this is why you should be able to use Lower Resistance instead of Pierce Magic, because for that 5% where Breach doesn't work you can use the wand. Also, golems LR should work on, i was not aware they had immunity to it although they do have 100% MR so it will take 3 which is kind pointless and to some extent a waste since you don't want to be casting 3x LR and 2-3 Damaging spells per Golem. For Golems you could use a Familiar that can turn invisible (or a sim) to block them from passing then just chip them down with +2/3 Sling bullets whilst you make a cup of coffee etc.

    The lack of invis on SOTM makes sense, but you do not need to learn both Invis and Mislead, Sorcerers should pick spells based on as little over-lap as possible.

    Also remember that in many cases there are potions or Green Scrolls to cover some spells that may not be used outside of Niche fights, some examples would be Potion of Clarity for charm/fear, resists from Green scrolls are +50%, elec, fire and cold can be buffed by another 50% by potions, meaning you can probably switch out Prot.Fire/cold if you are careful with your potion use. You can also easily survive using potions of invisibility, there's a LOT available throughout the game, it should have at least 50 potions of this type easily accessible from various fences and merchants.

    Lastly, wands, wands, wands, do not forget these trusty things, sell them to a fence and buy back to recharge, BAM, you have plenty of artillery for killing trash w/o expending spell slots, added bonus is *usually* wand saves are slightly worse than spell saves and many wands come with a built in -2 or -4 to their saves. Plus you can use them in wild/dead magic zones.

    A last tip for Golems is a staff has 2h weapon reach, meaning if you trap one of the larger golems in a doorway, you can often place yourself in such a position where you can hit it, but it cannot reach you, although missile fire is the safer option haha.

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 10
    Borek said:


    AFAIK the wands that have Breach and Pierce Magic (the ones with like 6 charges each, mainly found in WK) WILL work on creatures otherwise immune to Breach/LR due to their special immunities, this is why you should be able to use Lower Resistance instead of Pierce Magic

    The problem is - you can use wand only once per round. And in case with opponent like kangaxx and demogorgon you want to use triggers with 3x Any Sort Of Lower Resist (which is only possible with pierce magic or chain contingency, and i would rather make 6 x ADHW on my sorc + simulacrum and cast 3x pierce magic from trigger, so overall it ends up in -90% magic resist, - 3 spell protections, 6xADHW damage in 1 round). Still doesn't work though. Because of Demogorgons absurd saves each adhw does 40 dmg in avg, and even with - 90% magic resist he still somehow manages to resist 2 - 4 of them. After first round i'm unable to cast at all :(.
    Borek said:


    Also, golems LR should work on, i was not aware they had immunity to it although they do have 100% MR so it will take 3 which is kind pointless and to some extent a waste since you don't want to be casting 3x LR and 2-3 Damaging spells per Golem. For Golems you could use a Familiar that can turn invisible (or a sim) to block them from passing then just chip them down with +2/3 Sling bullets whilst you make a cup of coffee etc.

    Lower resist does nothing to golems in my game at least (i have ONLY scs installed, nothing else). After casting lower resist on golem i'm not even getting a message that "spell has no effect". It's like that lower resist is non-existant. Works on skeletons and other weaklings though. And golems are not the case, i'm just casting mislead and smashing them with staff.
    Borek said:


    The lack of invis on SOTM makes sense, but you do not need to learn both Invis and Mislead, Sorcerers should pick spells based on as little over-lap as possible.

    Well, i've picked invis + mislead because of safety. Mislead was fixed (you can't leave your decoy outside of dungeon, then enter it and kill everyone on sight). If you cast mislead, then enter a dungeon with ambush inside, you are dead (at least early into the game). So i'm using invis to enter somewhere (24 hours duration even allows you to sleep safely), then i'm searching for a "safe spot" and only after that i'm using mislead and going on a rampage.
    Borek said:


    switch out Prot.Fire/cold if you are careful with your potion use. You can also easily survive using potions of invisibility, there's a LOT available throughout the game, it should have at least 50 potions of this type easily accessible from various fences and merchants.

    From my experience, protection from fire + protection from magic energy are those two absurdly long lasting buffs, which could be removed only by breach or dispell/remove magic (which will never happen, because you have spell shield/spell turning/spell trap/spell immunities). And the reason why i like them is because they are protecting from almost every possible way to actually harm you (single target spells will not work, because you are under improved invis effect, and most of the aoe damage is fire or magic(including comet and dragon breath)). Learned this in a hard way from SCS liches :D. Protection from magic energy could be removed , i agree, because you can cast SI:Necromancy instead. But what can i take instead of protection from fire on lvl 3 and prot. from magic energy on lvl 6? I can't see any better options. Jaheiras_Witness suggests improved haste, but i assume it's for a shapeshifting strategy with tensors, as you mentioned, otherwise i can't see any other use for it.

    Post edited by BrightL1ghts on
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488
    Yeah Demogorgon is a beast, that is the main problem with a sorcerer Vs a standard Mage, you have to pick your spells based on the entire game and often end up with 1 encounter that you struggle with intensely because you lack that key flexibility.

    Regarding LR not working on Golems then that sounds like a slight SCS installation error, i have noticed that there are always a few small issues with SCS since it's not been updated in a while and the game version is updated.

    Yeah my point regarding Invisibility was that there's SO many potions you should be able to use potions not the spell, the drawback is you cannot cast it on other creatures, so you have to decide if a different 2nd level slot is worth it. Same for fire/cold/elec resistance, there's TONS of fire resist potions, the merchant in Bridge district has like 23 of them on her alone and each last for 2 hrs, the green scrolls last even longer, 12 hrs i believe for them. Again lots available (most temples sell at least a few green scrolls/potions). I am a big fan of prot.Fire spell myself on my mages, i always have 1 for emergencies, but on a sorc i think i would rely on potions and free up the slot for something else.

    Definitely keep Pro.Magic energy though, you get ADHW'd too often in TOB for it to be dropped and there isn't really a viable potion/scroll option. Spell Immunity just doesn't last long enough to replace it IMO.

    If you are still struggling with Kangaxx then you may want to see if the Scroll of Protection from Magic works, cast the scroll ON HIM and he'll be unable to cast any spells and you can beat him down easily. As for Demogorgon then i'd just splatter 30+ skulls traps at his spawn point, i am not a fan of "fighting fair" vs enemies custom designed to be unfair, lol. Thing is even if you come up with the perfect strategy for Demogorgon you're still looking at RNG determining the outcome, bad luck on resists/saves/spell damage and you'll fail, good RNG and it'll be a win.

    He usually summons i think 4 Mariliths, unsure if SCS changes this, but i'd be inclined to Sim, then wish off sim and sorc, if you get AHDW on everything option it should drop 7 in total on the area per Wish, with chain contingencies and some luck with resists he should die.

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 10
    Borek said:


    If you are still struggling with Kangaxx then you may want to see if the Scroll of Protection from Magic works, cast the scroll ON HIM and he'll be unable to cast any spells and you can beat him down easily.

    Didn't know that, thanks! Gonna try that tomorrow, sounds fun :)
    Borek said:


    He usually summons i think 4 Mariliths, unsure if SCS changes this

    Seems like SCS for sure changes that, because on second (or third, i don't remember) round he is summoning 5 glabrezu demons (which are OP as hell, because SCS buffs them to the sky, also protection from evil is not working on them, they will always attack you) without any casting time (instantly), and when he does that, his resist are going back to 90%. I even tried to imprison them all (i thought that 5 summon limit applies to demogorgon aswell), but no result, after imprisoning them, he just summons 5 more instantly.

    And it causes another problem - since in SCS Pierce Magic and Pierce Shield are aoe spells which are targeting closest enemy to the point where you casted them, demogorgon usually just sidesteps and your 3x Pierce Shield from chain contingency hits some random glabrezu, even if initial target was demogorgon =\

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488

    Borek said:


    If you are still struggling with Kangaxx then you may want to see if the Scroll of Protection from Magic works, cast the scroll ON HIM and he'll be unable to cast any spells and you can beat him down easily.

    Didn't know that, thanks! Gonna try that tomorrow, sounds fun :)
    Borek said:


    He usually summons i think 4 Mariliths, unsure if SCS changes this

    Seems like SCS for sure changes that, because on second (or third, i don't remember) round he is summoning 5 glabrezu demons (which are OP as hell, because SCS buffs them to the sky, also protection from evil is not working on them, they will always attack you) without any casting time (instantly), and when he does that, his resist are going back to 90%. I even tried to imprison them all (i thought that 5 summon limit applies to demogorgon aswell), but no result, after imprisoning them, he just summons 5 more instantly.
    Yeah i found out the hard way Protection from Evil only works for Gate/Cacodemon/summon Fiend class of spells, but sadly NOT for demons summoned in as special abilities by other powerful demons, something that SCS DRAMATICALLY updates to the point where it's super-easy to just get swamped by demons. I have lost many fights to Glabrezu's, if i remember correctly they cast dispel magic, stun and have a ranged Vampiric touch plus hit hard. The good news is that makes for more targets if you use the wish tactic, but if the fight has gone on long enough to see 5 glabs turn up you may be out of luck lol.

    Have you tried re-arranging spells and combo'ing Tensors, Imp.Haste and Shapechange? It's all or nothing since Tensors disables your casting, but it dbls HP's and improves thaco and APR, with Imp.Haste and Mindflayer form you may be able to Int-Drain him to death...AFAIK he should be vulnerable to stat drain deaths.

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    Borek said:


    Have you tried re-arranging spells and combo'ing Tensors, Imp.Haste and Shapechange? It's all or nothing since Tensors disables your casting, but it dbls HP's and improves thaco and APR, with Imp.Haste and Mindflayer form you may be able to Int-Drain him to death...AFAIK he should be vulnerable to stat drain deaths.

    Not yet, have to cheat a bit to do that, not really up to starting a new game today.
    And i guess i have to read some guide to shapeshifting, since i'm not really familiar with how to make it work to it's best.

    From what i understand you have to put all of the most important buffs into triggers and chain contingency, then black blade of disaster (or whatever is that, i never really used it), and then timestop + shapechange + trigger ?

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 3,884

    Jaheiras_Witness suggests improved haste, but i assume it's for a shapeshifting strategy with tensors, as you mentioned, otherwise i can't see any other use for it.

    I guess you're beyond the point where you would use darts much, but 10 APR with MMMs is a pretty useful tactic against most enemies. That's less the case if you've installed the SCS nerf to MMM, but I would still use it.

    From what i understand you have to put all of the most important buffs into triggers and chain contingency, then black blade of disaster (or whatever is that, i never really used it), and then timestop + shapechange + trigger ?

    Use of BBoD is a different tactic - if you're using shapechange you won't get value from BBoD as well.

    BrightL1ghts
  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 445
    edited September 11
    I am not sure what version of BG2 you are using and whether Tobex is compatible. If it is, you should install Tobex and in particular the component that stops interruption on zero damage, since that seems to be your main issue with Storm of Vengeance.

    If you do want to use Tobex, bear in mind you will need to do a full reinstall as Tobex is the very first mod you should install for max compatibility (even before Ascension).

    Grond0
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488

    Borek said:


    Have you tried re-arranging spells and combo'ing Tensors, Imp.Haste and Shapechange? It's all or nothing since Tensors disables your casting, but it dbls HP's and improves thaco and APR, with Imp.Haste and Mindflayer form you may be able to Int-Drain him to death...AFAIK he should be vulnerable to stat drain deaths.

    Not yet, have to cheat a bit to do that, not really up to starting a new game today.
    And i guess i have to read some guide to shapeshifting, since i'm not really familiar with how to make it work to it's best.

    From what i understand you have to put all of the most important buffs into triggers and chain contingency, then black blade of disaster (or whatever is that, i never really used it), and then timestop + shapechange + trigger ?
    You can use items and special abilities whilst under the effect of Tensors Transformation, so you can either buff up in advance which is advised, or perhaps use triggers etc to help, but obviously every one used for buffing is not available for disabling enemies etc. But yeah the basic idea is once you cast it you cannot use anymore normal spells until it ends. The reason it's so good is that it gives your Sorcerer a temporary way to become a semi-competent fighter, in a group game not so great, but solo it can be a way around otherwise extremely difficult encounters.

    Shapechange just builds on top of this, rather than being a semi-competent figher, you are a semi-competent fighter that can gain the attacks/defenses of a variety of powerful creatures, being able to switch between forms for an hour. The most popular is obviously the Mindflayer since it has high MR and the brain eating attack that can kill via Intelligence draining and is therefore excellent at killing enemies protected by Stoneskins w/o you needing to breach or remove them somehow. Imp.Haste and Tensors increase the natural APR from 4 to 10 and give you a viable THAC0 to actually hit most of the time.

    You can apply a similar strategy using the Slayer form, if you have it, which is equally potent.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 3,884
    Borek said:

    Imp.Haste and Tensors increase the natural APR from 4 to 10 and give you a viable THAC0 to actually hit most of the time.

    You'd need additional mods to allow this as the version of Tensors used in the EE (and vanilla BG2) does not give extra attacks.

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 11

    you should install Tobex and in particular the component that stops interruption on zero damage, since that seems to be your main issue with Storm of Vengeance.

    I'm not really up to using that, i think that if other people can beat all those tough enemies in chapter 2 solo, then it just means i have to try harder or probably use my brain more (or improve my spell picks).
    Grond0 said:


    I guess you're beyond the point where you would use darts much, but 10 APR with MMMs is a pretty useful tactic against most enemies. That's less the case if you've installed the SCS nerf to MMM, but I would still use it.

    Yes, MMM's are +2 on my installation. Just tried that and it's sick, i didn't know that imp. haste will actually double your apr with MMM's. This makes me think that i can drop Haste on lvl 3(or spell thrust, since i have secret word to remove spell shields) and take MMM's instead. But then again - i don't know what i can drop on lvl 6.
    PfMW + True sight are must-have picks (i could drop True Sight without SCS, because planetar can use it, but with SCS your PI can't summon planetars, and your character can summon it only once per day, so it makes true sight a must have pick). I also don't really wan't to drop Mislead because it's just too good, and i don't want to drop Pierce Magic (only because of 1 reason : Spell Trigger 3x Pierce Magic, it's just absolutely insane combined with 6x ADHW from both CC (simulacrum(or PI) + yours), since trigger will for sure hit before 6xADHW will trigger).
    The only pick which i could possibly drop is Protection from Magic Energy. And damn i like this spell :(
    Borek said:


    Have you tried re-arranging spells and combo'ing Tensors, Imp.Haste and Shapechange? It's all or nothing since Tensors disables your casting, but it dbls HP's and improves thaco and APR, with Imp.Haste and Mindflayer form you may be able to Int-Drain him to death...AFAIK he should be vulnerable to stat drain deaths.

    Had to cheat to test this out. Picked different spells aswell.
    It's insane, but it actually worked. Tensor was useless though (same for a int drain attack, he is immune to that), both sumulacrum and my own character didn't manage to hit demogorgon even once. After a couple of reloads i did all the buffs, added up fire shield red+blue, did put pfmw in chain contingency (on hit) and one additional pfmw in spell trigger, precasted pfmw and started the fight (without tensors). Believe it or not but he killed himself because of fire shields. Since mind flayer form is almost immune to magic and because of 3 pfmw it made that fight easy as hell.

    Anyway, i will keep trying to find the way of killing him just with magic.

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 11

    I am not sure what version of BG2 you are using and whether Tobex is compatible. If it is, you should install Tobex and in particular the component that stops interruption on zero damage, since that seems to be your main issue with Storm of Vengeance.

    I don't want to use that. If other players (and i believe lots of them) managed to deal with all the tough opponents in chapter 2 solo, then it just means that i'm doing something wrong, or not using my brain properly, or have to improve spell picks.
    Grond0 said:


    I guess you're beyond the point where you would use darts much, but 10 APR with MMMs is a pretty useful tactic against most enemies. That's less the case if you've installed the SCS nerf to MMM, but I would still use it.

    The reason why i'm so sceptical about MMM's is because PI can't use them. And PI under Mislead, guided by a brave invised familiar is usually enough to carry me through most of the encounters. But i didn't know that Imp.Haste will give you 10 apr with MMM's, good to know, thanks. I could drop Spell Thrust (because i will have Secret Word to get rid of spell shield) or Haste on lvl 3 for MMM's, but the problem is that i don't have space to pick Imp. Haste on lvl 6 then :(


    Borek said:


    Have you tried re-arranging spells and combo'ing Tensors, Imp.Haste and Shapechange? It's all or nothing since Tensors disables your casting, but it dbls HP's and improves thaco and APR, with Imp.Haste and Mindflayer form you may be able to Int-Drain him to death...AFAIK he should be vulnerable to stat drain deaths.

    Yes, had to cheat and test it today. Even with Tensors, i can't touch Demogorgon, he's always under PfMW and Stoneskin. He is immune to brain sucking aswell. But it still worked actually. Without Tensors. I did all the buffs (both main char and simulacrum), chain contingency with PfMW, Spell Trigger with PfMW, and Fire Shield (Red+Blue) and Shapechange into mind Flayer. Believe it or not he just killed himself. Somehow Fire Shields are ignoring his magic resist :|

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488
    Nice, i was not aware he had PFMW, that is pretty nuts, it's bad enough with just Stoneskins to get around lol. Fire/cold shield does ignore magic resist, it's counted as an effect rather than a spell, i was not sure if it would be effective given his elemental resists, he's flagged as 50% cold and 100% fire resists as standard. As for the Brain sucking, then you'd have to actually connect to see if it would work, it would drain someone under Stoneskin, but not protected from magical weapons.

    It's actually a good practice fight i would say for some of the later TOB encounters like Ravager who is equally potent, i would keep that strategy in mind for when you face him haha.

    Glad it worked, nice going for sticking with it and stepping up with the win!

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 11
    Anyway i think i've made a mistake trying to solo it. It was to dumb from me, i really didn't expect some opponents to be THAT smart. Maybe a wise choice will be to go with a 4 man party. And after beating the game in that way i guess i could challenge myself and try soloing it.

    Does mislead give the same improved invis. bonuses as a lvl 4 spell ? I mean -4 to hit rolls and + 4 to saves.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488
    The Mislead blurb says it acts as improved invis, so *should* trigger the bonuses yeah.

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 13
    Sorry for bothering you guys, but got 3 questions.

    1) Does Spell Thrust go through Spell Deflections/Spell Turning/Spell Trap ? Let's assume enemy has all of the listed buffs, will Spell Thrust go through them and still remove lvl 5 and below protections, or it will get absorbed by those buffs ?

    2) Pierce Shield. Description says : 10% + lvl of the caster lower resist. But when i cast it on Kangaxx for example, being a lvl 31, i'm getting this in combat log:



    I thought it should be - 41% magic resist per 1 cast. Why is it only 26% ?

    3) Pierce magic. Description says: 1% per level of the caster. Being a lvl 31 i expect it to lower 31% per cast. But when i'm throwing a spell trigger with 3x Pierce Magic on Demogorgon, he still somehow resists 2-4 (6 of them are hitting him) of ADHW's from both CC. He has 90% magic resist, how is that happening?

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488
    edited September 13
    If i am not mistaken Demogorgon is immune to 1-7th level spells, i believe you need to use Pierce Shield or Spell Strike.

    If you have a 6th+ level protective spell then it will prevent Spell Thrust assuming it qualifies. Spell Trap would absorb 3 levels, Spell Turning should rebound it onto the caster and spell deflection negate it. It *shouldn't* remove 5th and lower protections in this case.

    As for the strange results for the Kangaxx fight then i am not sure, i thought he was immune to 1-8 level spells so a lil surprised it worked lol.

  • NeverusedNeverused Member Posts: 564
    1) No. I think it should get absorbed by Spell Trap.
    2) I... have no idea. I think caster level gets capped at 20, but that's still only 6% + caster level. Anyone else have any insight?
    3) As above, caster level's capped at 20 so you're only lowering it by 60%. You're hitting almost exactly average number of resists, for what it's worth.

    BrightL1ghts
  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 13
    Borek said:

    If i am not mistaken Demogorgon is immune to 1-7th level spells, i believe you need to use Pierce Shield or Spell Strike.

    No, he is immune to lvl 1 - 2 spells, and immune to Lower Resist spell. A good old Skull Trap + 3xPierce magic from Spell Trigger works like a charm, as i mentioned before.

    Just did some tests again on my own simulacrum (when it turned hostile), and it's insane - Spell Thrust does bypass Spell Turning(aka it does remove all spell protection lvl 1 -5 even when Spell Turning is active)! I will check it now with Spell Deflection and Spell Trap

    Question about lower resist effects on Pierce Magic and Pierce Shield are still active though.

  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488

    Borek said:

    If i am not mistaken Demogorgon is immune to 1-7th level spells, i believe you need to use Pierce Shield or Spell Strike.

    No, he is immune to lvl 1 - 2 spells, and immune to Lower Resist spell. A good old Skull Trap + 3xPierce magic from Spell Trigger works like a charm, as i mentioned before.

    Just did some tests again my own simulacrum (when it turned hostile), and it's insane - Spell Thrust does bypass Spell Turning(aka it does remove all spell protection lvl 1 -5 even when Spell Turning is active)! I will check it now with Spell Deflection and Spell Trap

    Question about lower resist effects on Pierce Magic and Pierce Shield are still active though.
    Yeah just checked his wiki, i think i know what happened, this is the relevant part:

    AI Scripts
    Default script – DEMOGOR2:
    Summon the Abyssal Host (SPIN549.spl) - summon Marilith x2 on nearest enemy
    Domination (DEMOCHM.spl) - charm demonic, tarnari (bypass MR, no save)
    Gate (SPIN548.spl) which heals 50 HP & restores MR to 90% & summons Glabrezu x4, when 1 round passed
    Beguiling Gaze - charm, or Insanity Gaze - confustion on nearest enemy, when two rounds passed

    So it would seem that he Gated and restored his MR to 90%.

    As for the Spell Thrust then that doesn't surprise me, it is possible SCS caused it or perhaps it's just an error in the spell (or the spell description).

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 13
    I have no words, Spell Thrust is OP as it could get.
    1. It will bypass Spell Turning
    2. It will bypass Spell Deflection
    3. It will bypass Spell Trap

    The only protection against Spell Thrust is Globe of Invulnerability. Otherwise it will only take 2x Spell Thrust to destroy your Spell Shield + ALL of your Spell Immunities and other spell protections of lvl 1 - 5. Now i understand why in Jaheiras_Witness'es guide he mentions Spell Thrust as a must have pick. This spell is insane.

    Hah i just imagine already a simple lvl 7 sequencer with 2x Spell Thrust + Remove magic. Will destroy spell shield + all spell immunities (spell turnings/deflections/spell traps won't matter at all) , and since projectile of Remove Magic is slower, it will dispell most of the combat protections aswell, because spell immunities were dispelled before it hits :hushed:

    Borek
  • BorekBorek Member Posts: 488
    Checked Kangaxx and yeah he's actually immune to 1-9th spells with a few exceptions, Time Stop, Black Blade of Disaster and Melf Minute Meteors specifically, although worth noting that SCS options reducing MMM to act as +2 enchantment will STOP it working if that has been selected.

    So it's actually irrelevant if it's reporting his resists being lowered because only HLA's and those 2 9th level spells will work. I can only assume SCS has done something funky since you have him in his advanced full spellcasting Skull form rather than the basic version that just has Imprisonment and Wail of the Banshee. Perhaps they allow spell effects that can remove spell protections and adjust the immunities, you may need to look at the readme file for SCS to confirm what it does.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 3,884
    Was the pierce shield definitely cast by your character (as opposed to a simmy)?

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 22
    edited September 13
    Grond0 said:

    Was the pierce shield definitely cast by your character (as opposed to a simmy)?

    Yes, absolutely. I did test it a couple of times to be sure. It lowers it for 26% even on a regular lich without deviations (i mean it's constantly 26% on each cast, character level is 31, did use debug window to lvl up though).
    If it matters it's CC 3x Pierce Shield.

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