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Key-holing questions

Should the key-holing feature prevent the auto-zoom-in that happens when an object like a wall gets between the character and the camera? I ask as this is what I imagined would be the main benefit of key-holing. For example if my PC is down some stairs going toward the basement and I move the camera around so I would not see him then the camera automatically zooms in very close - so close that sometimes I can't see anything as the camera might be right up against my PC or party members. Also the sudden zoom in is problematic in many instances as it suddenly prevents me from having the wide perspective I need and is jarring at best. I hope key-holing will eventually allow that auto-zoom to be toggled off.

Should key-holing bore through everything? In Sanctum of the Archmage 1 (in Blackwing Lodge) I notice that it does not bore through bookcases or the fire from torches on the wall. I also noticed in Kingmaker that when used outdoors it seems to eliminate grass in the area behind my character.

Comments

  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 604
    Having tried it out (and looked at the picture in the dev patch notes here) I can confirm that it does not auto-zoom.
    Should key-holing bore through everything?

    No it only bores through the parts of a tileset. The objects that you mention are placeables (i.e. separate bits the builder places where they will).

    As a builder I have just one question. Will I be able to turn keyholing off in any module that I build? If not this has the potential to ruin a user made module especially those made before its introduction.

    TR

    Ancariondunahan
  • AncarionAncarion Member Posts: 89



    As a builder I have just one question. Will I be able to turn keyholing off in any module that I build? If not this has the potential to ruin a user made module especially those made before its introduction.

    TR

    Yes, please make this feature optional! I think it's fine for fixed isometric camera games, but really shouldn't be necessary for games with a free-moving camera. I understand why you wanted to add it for the mobile version, but I think it would be better to work on improving the camera controls for the PC rather than indiscriminately smashing holes through everything.

    I'm also concerned about a few effects that keyholing will cause, namely:

    1. Does it also affect placeables positioned between the character and the camera, or just tile geometry? If it's the former, then players could have difficulty interacting with objects that have been keyholed out of view. If it's the latter, it would ruin the aesthetics of area features made by partially concealing or embedding placeables inside tile geometry, which is a common practice.
    2. How much of the character must be concealed before the keyhole takes effect? Will things like waist-high fences be affected? What about transparent geometry like curtains, nets, windows, etc? Will they disappear when the character goes behind them, even though he would still be perfectly visible without keyholing?
    3. Is the background fog of an area visible when the tile geometry gets keyholed all the way through, for example a wall with no floor beneath it? I can foresee that not looking exactly optimal in many cases.
    4. Consider 2 adjacent rooms, with one of them hidden, or in any other way not yet revealed to the player. If I rotate the camera so that it goes behind the wall connecting the 2 rooms, will the engine keyhole through the wall and reveal the hitherto hidden room?
    5. To what degree, if at all, is the Obscuring walkmesh property affected by keyholing? Is the camera still "trapped" behind it, or can it be zoomed out beyond it?
    6. A bunch of other stuff as well...

    When I heard about the plan to change the way tile fade works, I was hoping for some method where the character models are stenciled or outlined when hidden behind geometry, rather than obliterating the geometry itself. I very much appreciate all the work being put into reinvigorating this old game, but I'm very cautious about the unintended effects of this whole keyholing business.

    NeverwinterWights
  • ProlericProleric Member Posts: 433
    I've played 4 custom modules end-to-end on mobile, didn't have any gameplay issues with keyholing. Bear in mind that mobile has a relatively locked camera, too, so it's worst case, the player having to look around more carefully.

    At first, I found it looked a little strange in some tilesets - cutaways and colours not quite what I expected - but after a while the mind adapts, and it just seems normal.

    As far as I can see, keyholes open in placeables, too, without disclosing junk hidden behind the scenes.

    A lot of interesting questions in this thread, though...

    NeverwinterWightsdunahan
  • TarotRedhandTarotRedhand Member Posts: 604
    Can now confirm that usable placeables fade out with this. Seeing as I have a number of placeables that fit flush against the ends of certain walls in the module that I am making and these placeables are part of a simple puzzle that allows access to a hidden area, not being able to turn this off from within the module is definitely problematic.

    TR

    dunahanNeverwinterWights
  • CalgacusCalgacus Member Posts: 135
    edited January 9

    Having tried it out (and looked at the picture in the dev patch notes here) I can confirm that it does not auto-zoom.

    The game still auto-zooms in sometimes for me as I rotate the camera around for instance - maybe we could just get an option to turn that zoom-in behavior off like the option EnableDialogZoom. If I lose sight of my character I can just move the camera again myself.

  • NeverwinterWightsNeverwinterWights Member Posts: 192
    Being able to turn it on/off per area would solve building problems and still let us use the feature. Not sure how doable that would be though.

    TarotRedhand
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