Shapeshifter -> Fighter

Khyron

So! I had an idea upon reading the Talos/Fighter thread..

Anyone tried Shapeshifter 13 then dual to fighter?

We all know WW shape is kinda crap, but with fighter thac0 and bonus attacks.. cos im pretty sure those carry over into WW.

I think i read once if you dual wielded, you'd get the extra offhand attack as well, even in WW shape.

Anyone tried? Could be a badass WW shape.. with stoneskin Ironskin

Grond0

From memory the extra attack from dual wielding still works in v2.5 for BGEE, but not BG2EE.

Wrathofrecca

I've always loved Shapeshifter and this sounds promising. I'll try it at some point. Only down side is possibly the time spent rolling stats. You need an 18 str, charisma and I believe wisdom so talk about stat dumps. I know it's not that big a deal for shapeshifter but I remember trying to roll a fighter/druid dual (not multi) and the stat rules were fairly annoying (I think I had to roll over a 90 to get the spread I wanted).

Ironskin probably won't make it that crazy because ironskin is a 7 second cast and shapeshifting uses your action per round but it could still be something useful. The big trick to shapeshifting werewolf is that it lets someone who is done casting spells go offensive.

Grond0

If you're planning to spend your time fighting in werewolf shape rather than human, you don't need to worry too much about stat rolls - the fighting stats are set by the shapechange. You only need 15 charisma and wisdom to dual anyway (and potentially could reduce those starting stats by 4 thanks to the tomes available in BGEE).

Wrathofrecca

Pretty sure dualing requires primaries from both classes, aka 18 str. 18 con is also important because it impacts your hp.

Grond0

Apologies - I was thinking about dualling in the other direction (I've amended my post above to show the correct requirements). The stat requirements for dualling are:
- in your first class you need at least 15 in your primary stats (so in this case 15 wisdom and charisma)
- in your second class you need at least 17 in your primary stats (so in this case 17 strength)

Strength and dexterity are reset by the shapechange (19/16 for werewolf and 21/20 for greater werewolf), so you don't necessarily need to maximise those for your starting character if you're not intending to fight much in human shape. If you are intending to do much ranged fighting though with something like a sling, then high strength and dexterity are very useful. I agree you may also want 18 con, though you won't get any extra HPs for the difference between 16 and 18 (unless you dual before level 9, which was not the intention of the OP). Having 18 to start with though allows you to make use of the Claw of Kazgaroth without suffering any HP penalty.

Reticent

This is a better combination in the non-EE game because of the better Iron Skin.

Truth is though that by the time you get your Shapeshifter levels back you're so deep in the game that Greater Werewolf isn't that much of a buff over your geared fighter anymore.

Maybe a more fun variant is a full saga run of Shapeshifter 2/Fighter X. By the time Werewolf shape is obsolete your character will be geared up well enough to not really miss it.

Danacm

Reticent said:

This is a better combination in the non-EE game because of the better Iron Skin.

Truth is though that by the time you get your Shapeshifter levels back you're so deep in the game that Greater Werewolf isn't that much of a buff over your geared fighter anymore.

Maybe a more fun variant is a full saga run of Shapeshifter 2/Fighter X. By the time Werewolf shape is obsolete your character will be geared up well enough to not really miss it.

@Reticent what the diff between the two iron skins ?

Reticent

Danacm said:

@Reticent what the diff between the two iron skins ?

Casting time. In the original game, Iron Skins has a casting time of 1. It's actually pretty debatable which version is "correct" on the issue, so I kind of feel it should have been left as it was.

In the original, the fast casting time makes the spell almost uninterruptible even while you are being attacked. Which means dropping out of your shapeshift during combat to spend time spell casting or to use a specific melee weapon is a lot more viable.

Danacm

Btw i like the dual class for all single class casters. Anytime i play a druid, mage, cleric, just dual it from lvl 3 fighter. Thats all

Neverused

There's three dual points outside of level 2 cheese, imo: level 9, 13, or 15. 9 gives access to Stoneskin for the only spell with synergy with melee on the Druid list. 13 for Greater Werewolf form, which will be relevant until late game, or the incredibly long 15 for the first HLA, an elemental shapeshift. I plan on the second or third for a poverty run, we'll see if it works...