Pacifist mage challenge

Rigel

Hello - I thought about a new challenge, with a mage (Abjurer) who would just use purely defensive spells, i.e. blue or white spells. I would like to start from Candlekeep until ToB. 
Do you think it is feasible ? Of course, it is not a solo, he would be part of a team.
And is abjurer a good choice ? 
He would be a hard-core peacenik who would even refuse to use Enchantment spells (because at the end of the day you cause the death of other creatures). Perhaps he would use spells against Undead (like Hold Undead).
From a RPing point of view, an Abjurer seems logical, or perhaps a Diviner.

Artona

Is this supposed to be pacifist as entire run, or you just want your mage not to kill anyone? Because there are some enemies that you have to kill to move plot forward (Mulahey is one, I'm pretty sure). You will need someone to do dirty work.

It's definitely interesting concept. I think that pacifist mage would have limited combat use - the only feasible use I can see is serving as a tank with Mirror Images, Blur, and so on, while rest of the party kills enemies.

Rigel

No this would be a classic run - just the mage would be pacifist. Of course this would be a "good" run, and he would try to convince his fellow adventurers not to fight all the time (for example, not to answer to the provocations of the group in the basilik garden or in the area south of Nashkel). The tank option is a pretty good idea I did not think about that.
Perhaps he would feel inside him his violent potential and would try to fight against it. But from a Rping point of view, perhaps some of his friends would get nervous about his refusal of helping in the disposal of enemies. A bit like in the "Harry Potter"series when Lupin is angry at Harry because the latter refuses violence even against Deatheaters.

Artona

I can think only of four mandatory battles: Mulahey, Davaeorn, dopplegangers in Duchal Palace and final battle, so I think you are good to go. However, Abjurer might have it tough as a tank, because he does not have access to alteration spells, and that means no stoneskin (at least according to wiki). On the other hand, Diviner has no Power Words, or summoning.

Personally, I would go with Diviner. I think that it fits better thematically (as Candlekeep is all about knowledge, Oghma, etc.), and stoneskin is just too precious.

But it's just me. Good luck with your challenge!

Rigel

Thanks a lot ! I think you are right. A Diviner would fit Candlekeep's environment (the scroll that you need to bring to Elvenhair is an Identify one ....).

Dragonspear

I like the idea of an enchanter as well. Where you use enchantments to try to remove threats to you if you need to cast offensively.

sarevok57

there is going to be 2 scenarios where this might be a problem:

SoA:
[spoiler]
when you go to spell hold and are doing the dream sequence you will have to do enough damage to "bhaal" to pass on to the next sequence, there is no talking your way out of it, so if you have no damaging spells/items or summons, your run is going to end there, so keep that in mind
[/spoiler]

ToB:
[spoiler]
in sendai's enclave there is a section where you HAVE to do a fight against a drow by yourself, if you lose, well its game over as usual, but you have to fight him and kill him to continue on, again no talking your way out of it, "better" part is, its a drow so the holmes will have magic resistance, this will be another time if you have no summons or damaging spells/items your run will end here
[/spoiler]

other than those 2 sections i see no reason that your kill count can't be 0, in fact i remember eons ago i had haer'dalis on my team and he had 0 kills in ToB because all he ever did was use his bard song

Rigel

Thanks a lot sarevok57, this really helps.
I have not been playing BG for almost 15 years, and then I did not proceed until those stages.
I have some additional questions:
- Would a couple of scrolls be enough to succeed those fights?
-Could a familiar be strong enough to win those foes ?
-More generally, in the late stages of SoA and ToB, will a pacifist character like this be able to contribute significantly to the victory (through his buff/debuff spells)?
 

sarevok57

a familiar will get pummeled in those fights, unless there is some cool kooky exploits that i dont know about

for the SoA battle you technically aren't "killing" anything per se, so i see no reason why you couldn't use offensive spells in the battle ( actually you could probably just cast fireshield red and blue on yourself with protection from normal weapons and just sit there until you win, which truly would be pacifist )

but for the ToB one, you will definately need some offensive power for that one, i dont know if a planetar is strong enough to win that battle so im not sure if summons will work ( perhaps a spell trigger of conjure earth elementals perhaps? ) because they might not be strong enough to take that guy down, but if you have lower resistance in a spell trigger then hit him off with a few ADHW the battle is won

based up top saying that you are only going to memorize blue and white spells and be useful for your party, the answer will be; yes and no

because once you buff your party up, there is really nothing left for your mage to do, and since breach and ruby ray are red spells ( same with lower resistance ) yer wizerd isn't going to be doing much, unless you want to cast spells like protection from magical weapons on yourself and take the aggro away from your party member on to your mage

with that being said, your mage won't be useless since he will be the arcane buffer, but after your mage does their buffin' you are pretty much a paper weight after that

unless you go into battles completely unprepared with 0 meta game, then yeah you will be pretty active in protecting your party, but depending on the difficulty setting you are play on, going into some fights completely unprepared is just destiny for a team wipe

Rigel

Thanks a lot, this really helps. So I guess my Abjurer will have to learn some red spells. From a RPing point of view, he would have to compromise with his ideals and become a little bit more realistic. To survive and helping his friends to survive.  

sarevok57

Rigel said:

Thanks a lot, this really helps. So I guess my Abjurer will have to learn some red spells. From a RPing point of view, he would have to compromise with his ideals and become a little bit more realistic. To survive and helping his friends to survive.  

if you still want to go with the pacifist mine set you can always choose the disabling spells like charm/blind/slow/hold sort of spells so you still wouldn't technically be "killing" anybody and then when it comes time to do the one on ones, have some summoning spells so after you have disabled your attacker your summons can clean up afterwards still making it so you don't have to kill anyone

Rigel

@sarevok57 Yes, but I think it would be a bit hypocritical. I will have him learn some offensive spells, and the disabling spells as well. He went out of his bubble in Candlekeep and has begun to discover the grim reality of the world... he needs to adapt...

Rigel

@sarevok57 I have another question 

Would it be possible for him to use the Slayer form in those fights ?

Thanks a lot

Humanoid_Taifun

@sarevok57 The duel in Throne of Bhaal is not unavoidable. You can instead just kill all the drow manually.

@Rigel The fight in Shadows of Amn is before you get access to the Slayer.

Overall, I don't think this idea is much of a challenge. You just have slightly less damage output than normal (16.7% less).

There are a few duels where your character is obliged to personally get his (or her) hands dirty. But most of them are avoidable. Even if you can't avoid them though, by making yourself virtually immune to damage, you basically win by default.

Yeah, your skill with a dagger might suck. But sooner or later you will get it to stick, pun intended.

Grond0

If you want to be held responsible for no deaths at all you could try summoning fiends to kill Bhaal and the drow captain for you.  A familiar would also work if you take one of the ones that regenerates, but you'd have to be prepared for very long battles with a lot of kiting.

sarevok57

Rigel said:

@sarevok57 I have another question 

Would it be possible for him to use the Slayer form in those fights ?

Thanks a lot

cant use that form in SoA but apparently you can avoid the ToB one on one fight, so i guess it is completely possible to be pacifist 

Rigel

@Artona Finally I have created a Diviner. To be honest, he uses a bit of red spell, even if usually this is Neera who blasts everything. At the moment, we are at the Firewine Bridge, about to enter into the dungeon...