Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Axis & Allies 1942 Online is now available in Early Access! Buy it on Steam. The FAQ is available.
New Premium Module: Tyrants of the Moonsea! Read More
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Can Necromancers be good (or at least neutral) ?

I wonder if from a RPing point of view, Gorion's ward could be a Necromancer, and since I think that he should be of Good alignment (or max Neutral), would that make sense ?
We tend to associate Necromancers with Evil, and in the game, characters like Tarnesh or Xzar do indeed confirm this prejudice. But could they be from Good alignment ? Just people so deeply immersed in their research about life and death that they would become a bit disconnected from the reality... but still could be good-orientated people. A bit like Victor Frankenstein in Mary Shelley's book.

«1

Comments

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,609
    edited February 12
    Yes.

    The Complete Book of Necromancers even bring two kits that need to be of good alignment - one of them (Undead Slayer) I've reproduced for the Infinity Engine inside the I Hate Undead kitpack.

    ThacoBellStummvonBordwehr
  • RigelRigel Member Posts: 73
    Thanks for the info @Raduziel.
    I have found the Complete Book of Necromancers on the Net. But I will try to buy it anyway, I prefer real books ... (perhaps due to my age...).
    And your mod looks very interesting. I will install it.

    Raduziel
  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,046
    Yeah, they can be good.

    Some people argue that the "Animate Dead" spell should only be used by evil aligned characters, since you're desecrating a corpse to create an evil form of unlife. I've never known anybody playing the game to be a stickler for that though.

    Necromancers have a whole spellbook outside of the animate dead spell though, so even if that was your view good aligned necromancers are fair game.

    It's a little bit frustrating though that all the healing magic, while still considered necromancy, can't be used by a necromancer. For some reason that particular application of necromancy only comes to god freaks. So Necromancers are put into the position of being studied in the many ways one can manipulate the body and soul, but conspicuously ignorant on how to do any kind of body/soul repair. The one application of those kinds of studies that would typically mark one as a force of objective good, if such a thing could be said to exist.

    RigellolienThacoBellQuartz
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,609
    Rigel wrote: »
    Thanks for the info @Raduziel.
    I have found the Complete Book of Necromancers on the Net. But I will try to buy it anyway, I prefer real books ... (perhaps due to my age...).
    And your mod looks very interesting. I will install it.

    I would wait a little before installing IHU. I'm updating it ATM; it was my first mod, so a lot of things there are poorly coded or very unbalanced.

    I'll put a notice on that mod's thread noticing when I'm ready.

    Cheers!

    Rigellolien
  • chimaerachimaera Member Posts: 938
    In the context of the game, there are no repercussions to casting necromantic spells. If a cleric of Lathander can animate dead without losing favor from their god, there is no reason why a necromancer doing the same should be of non-good alignment only. However, I don't play pnp, so no idea if this is how it should be, or if it's just wrong implementation. I know in some editions animate dead indeed had the 'evil' tag.

    From a roleplaying point of view, I think a good aligned necromancer as Gorion's ward is an interesting concept. Perhaps they had always felt fascinated by death for reasons they didn't understand and had a natural affinity for necromantic spells, and so mastering necromancy as a wizard gave them a measure of control over their divine taint, even before they knew they carried it.

    RigelChroniclerQuartz
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,609
    edited February 12
    A good aligned necromancer is what we call a surgeon.

    I mean, one of those two kits is basically a surgeon.

    ElysianEchoes
  • RigelRigel Member Posts: 73
    I hope it is not the general Surgeon of "Give me liberty"....

    Raduziel
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,008
    There is good synergy for dualing a necromancer into a cleric too. You lose some hit points but it makes your Slay Living and Poison spells much more effective! Too bad you can't dual from cleric to necromancer (without cheating anyway).

    TorgrimmerlolienChroniclerQuartz
  • Humanoid_TaifunHumanoid_Taifun Member Posts: 963
    edited February 12
    This might be relevant to the topic.
    nemc4wwt6xso.png

    Raduziel
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 861
    Chronicler wrote: »
    Yeah, they can be good.

    Some people argue that the "Animate Dead" spell should only be used by evil aligned characters, since you're desecrating a corpse to create an evil form of unlife. I've never known anybody playing the game to be a stickler for that though.

    I don't cast Animate Dead for that reason. For example, the thought of Aerie, a Good elf Cleric, raising undead is something I just can't wrap my head around. Viconia, sure, but she's not Good.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,046
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    There is good synergy for dualing a necromancer into a cleric too. You lose some hit points but it makes your Slay Living and Poison spells much more effective! Too bad you can't dual from cleric to necromancer (without cheating anyway).

    Necromancers have a minimum wisdom score of 16, which makes the dual really easy, especially if you plan on using the wisdom tomes.

    Alternatively it means they've pretty much got guaranteed good times with the Wish spells when they reach that level.

    Balrog99
  • magaritymagarity Member Posts: 49
    Was Dr Frankenstien a chaotic good necromancer? His goal in reanimating the dead was to extend life, not take over the world or somesuch.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    edited March 25
    What is death? Death is change. Death is transition. The death of a mortal body is but one manifestation of the concept. The death of a bad habit, is this not good? How about the death of an abusive relationship? The death of one that is suffering, finally gaining respite? But happiness can also die. I don't see death as good or evil, and so I would not conclude if a person was good or evil based on their relationship with death. Like any tool or natural force, death is not inherently good or evil.

    So, yes, I believe a necromancer can be good aligned.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,046
    I mean, that's all very poetic and all, but necromancy still very clearly deals with the death of the body and spirit.

    They don't reanmimate bad habits or anything.

    DJKajuru
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    And reanimating bones isn't necessarily evil. Or good. It's what you use those bones for. If they help kill some evil mage with designs on destroying the world, they were put to good purpose, no? If one can speak to a spirit that lived in the distant past, it would be a great boon to historians. The common idea of necromancy just seems so limited. I mean, why couldn't a good necromancer create the spell "Slay Bad Habit"?

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,046
    You're talking outlandish stuff that has no bearing in any actual necromancy that exists in the game.

    "Slay Bad Habit" is like seven degrees of separation away from any necromancy your necromancer will be performing in this campaign.

  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    OP said 'from an rping point of view'

    Oh well, I'll shut up now. My apologies.

  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,761
    From role-playing point of view I think Necromancers can be good. Once I got a guide about wizards in the forgotten relams and for necromancers it was said they are more likely to be firmly good or firmly evil, since the nature of power their can use can lead to temptation and corruption. So either they gave in or resists it. Likewise, it said that neutral necromancers are pretty rare.

    That applies only to FR, of course. In other franchises things can look differently. Diablo necromancers are, for example, true neutral due to their training, philosophy and duties.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,832
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    There is good synergy for dualing a necromancer into a cleric too. You lose some hit points but it makes your Slay Living and Poison spells much more effective! Too bad you can't dual from cleric to necromancer (without cheating anyway).
    You can in vanilla BG1. ;)

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,609
    Rigel wrote: »
    Thanks for the info @Raduziel.
    I have found the Complete Book of Necromancers on the Net. But I will try to buy it anyway, I prefer real books ... (perhaps due to my age...).
    And your mod looks very interesting. I will install it.

    @Rigel I Hate Undead is uploaded. Hope you enjoy it.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,570
    I mean, healing spells are classed as necromancy. I doubt many people would make the argument that healing is bad.

  • ChroniclerChronicler Member Posts: 1,046
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I mean, healing spells are classed as necromancy. I doubt many people would make the argument that healing is bad.

    Healing spells, however, cannot be accessed by necromancers. It's stupid.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,609
    Chronicler wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »
    I mean, healing spells are classed as necromancy. I doubt many people would make the argument that healing is bad.

    Healing spells, however, cannot be accessed by necromancers. It's stupid.

    As a rule of thumb, not even by evil priests connected to necromancy. lol

  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 674
    I always view non- evil necromancers as scientist. Weird scientist. They dont care about good and evil just thier own moral route. From other outer viewers they may seem evil. But i like the idea of true neutral necromancers, and in this case true neutrality not means amorality rather than different morality like paths in vampire the masquerade rpg. They work for their own goals, like wining above death, resaurrect dead loves and relatives etc.

  • ArviaArvia Member Posts: 884
    Raduziel wrote: »
    A good aligned necromancer is what we call a surgeon.

    I'm going to write that one down for further use. Against surgeons, obviously. 😁

    Raduziel
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,095
    As a D&D related question it pretty much depends on the edition and setting. A war priest who animates bodies to aid his cause may be doing from a neutral or good point of view . On the other hand,if you're setting or character is based on a culture that reviles the desecration of bodies (the egyptians ,for example) then animating corpses is a sacrilege. In fantasy settings undead are just a nuisance, but in a lovecraftian scenario a single zombie would terrify the whole village.

    Also, spells that drain lifeforce are considered evil because they play with one's God(s) given gift : an energy that is given to you at birth and only vanishes when u die, thus "borrowing" it from someone may also be considered a sacrilege. I wont mention healing spells because they are , by DnD terms, origin of divine magic so the caster isn't necessarily playing with forbidden knowledge.

    Now, if you consider Necromancy simply a school like any other that reproduces magical effects , be it creepy or not, then a vampiric touch is no more harmful than a fireball.

    Now, personally I prefer to see it a something that deals with forbidden knowledge . Its not necessarily evil but it does deal with forces that mortals shouldn't flirt with all the time

    ElysianEchoesThacoBell
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 475
    @DJKajuru , if these forums had a "best answer" feature, I'd vote for yours.

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 519
    Depending on the exact nature and deeds of your Necromancer, I think it's perfectly feasible for Gorion's Ward to be a Neutral Necromancer. In general, Good-aligned clerics and paladins will abhor the animation of undead, but why exactly the creation of undead is so villified has never really been adequately explained and is usually left to individual DMs to headcanon.

    In my tabletop games, the reason I give for why the creation of undead is an abomination is because doing so pulls the soul (or at least a portion of it) of the dead person back from the afterlife and traps them in their moldering corpse. It is a horrific existence, and you do so without their consent, making it an undeniably evil act. Other Necromantic spells such as Trap the Soul or Finger of Death (which destroys the soul utterly) are likewise evil for being needlessly cruel and/or destructive, but other Necromancy spells such as Horrid Wilting, while gruesome to witness, are no more evil than incinerating foes with a Fireball. As such, Necromancers don't HAVE to be evil, but due to the temptations of their powers many do wind up slipping into Evil alignments as time goes by.

    RaduzielBelgarathMTH
Sign In or Register to comment.