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Simulacrum for sorcerers.

gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
I believe that to learn simulacrum is a really useful tool for the sorcerer, both in a solo and a party setting.
the reasons are that a simulacrum of a sorcerer retains more power then the one of a mage as has better versatility inside the spells that the sorcerer knows, he still knows all the spells the original knows and has a good amount of slots, so can be effective in the short time he last. he is also more resilient then the pi, as has to only cast si abjuration but is immune to true sight. and as don't freeze the original can work together with him, or with his pi to have 2 spell casters, probably equipping rov and aop, active at the same time. very useful both in a party and soloing, both at lower levels and later, when also the simulacrum is capable to cast improved alacrity.
the fact that the original is not frozen is also very important in a solo setting, i realized it the time the pi of my solo sorcerer was stunned and the enemies managed to find my invisible sorcerer and destroy him while i could do nothing.

but as a sorcerer can learn only a limited number of spells to learn simulacrum is to loose something other, and at that level there are many useful spells, so to learn simulacrum mean also to have a less versatile and powerful sorcerer. the reasons why not to learn it are as good as the reasons to learn it.

this poll is to know how we, sorcerer users and lovers, deal with this issue.

EDIT: too op instead of to op, but i can not edit the pool choices.

Simulacrum for sorcerers. 15 votes

i almost every time learn simulacrum
40%
Balrog99GirewangorgonzolaRik_KirtaniyaBrightL1ghtsToveriJuri 6 votes
i almost every time prefer to opt for an other spell
13%
JLeesemiticgoddess 2 votes
it depends, sometimes i learn it, other times i opt for an other spell
13%
Timbo0o0o0smyth25 2 votes
i don't use clones, their ability to cast spells without actually consuming them is just to op for my taste, so my sorcerer does not learn both pi and simulacrum.
33%
sarevok57KadrikNoonenqenqTheLungo 5 votes

Comments

  • Rik_KirtaniyaRik_Kirtaniya Member Posts: 1,741
    i almost every time learn simulacrum
    Simulacrum is a must have spell for almost any Sorcerer I make. My repertoire feels incomplete otherwise.

    The best summon you can get is another fully-controllable copy of yourself! ;)

    gorgonzolaBalrog99
  • enqenqenqenq Member Posts: 497
    i don't use clones, their ability to cast spells without actually consuming them is just to op for my taste, so my sorcerer does not learn both pi and simulacrum.
    Actually the reason I don't use them is I just don't like the fantasy of them. I've played BG2 to and fro since its early years and it's possible I've never ever used them, not on sorcerers, not on mages.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    i almost every time learn simulacrum
    i was not sure if to include the option in the poll, it seems that i did it right this time.
    i appreciate your feedback

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,811
    i don't use clones, their ability to cast spells without actually consuming them is just to op for my taste, so my sorcerer does not learn both pi and simulacrum.
    in the vanilla EE games, simulacrum and project image are never necessary, not even on insane difficulty, i remember back in the day of casting simulacrum and then using restoration, then wishing everyone was fully healed with all their spells back to unleash spell books worth of spells while time stopped and all that jazz

    but then that just got boring, and as i said, just unnecessary

    but when i play the games, i use no mods, and i try and play as lazy as possible, so using simulacrums and all that jazz is just more unwanted micromanagement

    but with that being said, if you have all those crazy mods that makes the game a million times harder like ascension and scs and whatnot, then perhaps it is necessary to exploit the system as much as possible to win those battles, although i have no idea because i never use those mods

    but other than that, my arcane users never cast simulacrum, i like my floating skulls that melt the skin and moisture off of my foes instead :)

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    edited March 2019
    i almost every time learn simulacrum
    what you tell is true, in a not modded game a player with some experience can easily win without clones, and also without easy tactics like bombing while in the fog of war, setting traps on a blue enemy or a spawn point, fake talking, pre buffing without in game evidence of the enemy being there and the other trick that remove every challenge.

    the difference is that using clones is an intended behavior, if the use is proper, the other things are exploits, of meta knowledge, game mechanics or whatever.
    the mislead clone of a bard that sing or of a thief that allows easy multiple back stabs are examples of not proper use of a clone. this is not a moral judgment, every player is free to play as he likes and also i sometimes make use of that not proper ways, but is not the use that was originally intended, mislead is a way to gain invisibility for a mage.
    to not use clones is a completely legittimate choice and i perfectly understand your reasons.
    i use them, both in a modded and not modded game, mainly for 3 reasons.
    i feel free to use my mages without using too fast their spells, so my party has not to rest too often, usually i rest as a toon get fatigued.
    at higher level i feel free to use improved alacrity while wearing rov and aop, thing that done by the mage consume almost all his spellbook in a couple of rounds.
    both the things avoid resting too often, don't give more power.
    and finally as i like to play small parties of arcane casters the clones are my way to overcome the problem of having few people on the field to fight in tob.
    one of my favorite party is fmt, aerie and haer dalis (in the original, in ee berds are less useful). to have also the simulacrum of the fmt and a buffed for mlee simulacrum of aerie + the clone of the bard singing let me have 4 mlee fighters, one bard singing and aerie (original) as spellcaster. so for the hard battles i have a 6 people party while using only 3 toons.

  • IamdorfIamdorf Member Posts: 60
    "I think I'm a clone now."

    gorgonzola
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,433
    I always find project image to be more useful. Simulacrum lacks many high level spells unless your caster level is very high, so I don't like it that much.

    Project image can cast all of the memorised spells, buff all fighters with improved haste, use 9th level spells including hlas, and then wish for rest or power word:kill/blind/stun your spelltrapped pc (from staff of magi) to regain the used up PI. Rinse and repeat. You gain a full spell book worth of spells at the cost of nothing.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    edited March 2019
    i almost every time learn simulacrum
    @ lunar, what you tell about PI is surely true, and also i cast much more times PI then simulacrum.
    in the original game i use also the advanced version of the infinite spells tactic with sorcerer using the spell trap and the cc, that needs no preparation, can be used on the spot even if ambushed, and give you 2 PI, so 4 rounds of timestop and improved alacrity with 2 whole spellbooks to use while recharging the spells used.
    in EE is possible to have something similar, but one simulacrum has to be used instead of a PI and a single low level spell is not recharged in the process. so it is an other reason to know simulacrum.

    i think we all know that pi is better, more powerful by far, but as i told in the op post simulacrum has its advantages, as can be used together with the mage or his pi, is immune to true sight, and in some situations an enemy will cast true sight and can not be disrupted immediately. as i almost always use parties of 3-4 people probably i am biased as i find that as the sorcerer simulacrum gets his first lev 9 spell is almost as powerful as the pi, as after improved alacrity a salvo of low-medium level spells is as effective as using high level ones. with a 6 people party that happens later.

    anyway the simulacrum is not an alternative to the pi, is an other tool that can be used with the pi or in situations where the pi is risky to use.
    for a solo sorcerer is even more important as he gains levels very fast so his pi is super strong in soa chap 2 and his simulacrum is really strong before tob, and against stuff that naturally see trough invisibility, in tactics mod almost everybody and his brother, they can find your freezed mage without destroying the pi, as seeing naturally is different from using true sight that dispel illusions. soloing to have a clone that fight with you instead than in your place or to have 2 different clones make some battles more easy, take draconis as example, a pi can easily win both his human and dragon form, but has to find the invisible dragon before and gain the time to cast improved alacrity. the simulacrum, self protected by spells and si abjuration, can spot and buy to the pi the time.

    and if wish is also used to have also simulacrum doing it, he can do it with the 3 scrolls we find in the game also if is still not capable to cast lev 9 spells, to have it make to find the wanted wish outcome, lets say rest, more likely as the sorcerer can use the pi clones and if is not lucky has still the simulacrums to use.

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