Safe dismiss and rejoin for every BG2 NPC?

Veristek

Hi all.

I've just finished BG1 and Dragonspear, and now am starting out in BG 2 EE. I have just finished Irencius dungeon, and started Chapter 2 after talking to that thief guy in his house who said I need to get 20,000 gold to pay for his help. I'm now going around trying to collect all the NPC's. I have Minsc, Jahiera, and Yoshimo already, and I've saved Viconia from the mob, visited the Copper Coronet, and now am at a kind of roadblock. I don't want to risk dropping Jahiera, Minsc, and Yoshimo then they leave forever, to make room to recruit the NPC's I've found, and then risk losing them forever too.

I know that dismissing NPC's during their quests or if their quest time limit expires, I can lose them forever. I've read that Jahiera leaves forever once dismissed once. Also, I've read that almost every NPC in BG 2 EE has quests to do. In BG 1, some NPC's were safe and stuck around no matter how many times I dismiss / rejoin them without quests. There were a few with quests like Minsc + Dynaheir at Gnoll Stronghold, Coran and wyvern quest, Kivan and bandit camp, etc. and I was able to finish all those successfully and get to keep everyone.

Any way to keep Jahiera recruitable after I dismiss her? How do I deal with Nalia and her D'Anise Keep quest without her leaving permanently? I'm not ready to tackle her castle quest yet, but I'm afraid I would have to rush through her castle quest when she approaches me for first time in the Copper Coronet or I'll lose her forever.



TL:DR = Is there any list or definitive info on every NPC in BG 2 on when it's safe to keep them, meaning dismiss + rejoin as many times as I want without them leaving the game forever? I want to collect all the NPC's to experience their stories and dynamics. I'm a completionist with parties / NPC's in RPG's in general.

Humanoid_Taifun

Nalia: When she approaches you, you do not have to recruit her. Just send her ahead and she will wait for you for however long it takes. You can pick her up to clear the castle or afterwards. She will be free to dismiss after her castle is cleared without any problems.
Minsc: No problems whatsoever.
Jaheira: Once her quest line has progressed to a certain point, I think you should not dismiss her any more until her quest is done. Otherwise she is free to dismiss with one limitation: If you dismiss a character that you are romancing, the romance will be broken.

jsaving

@Veristek What you seem to have read is mostly wrong, thankfully. Nearly every NPC in BG2 can be recruited at will nearly every time you dismiss them. And nearly every area in Athkatla as well as the outdoor areas (Trademeet, Windspear, Umar Hills and Nalia's Keep) can be safely completed as soon as you exit Irenicus' dungeon.

I would suggest just doing an NPC's quests as soon as you recruit them, then dismissing said NPC as soon as their quests are done to make room for others. Jaheira would be the main issue since her "quest" requires her to be in the party for many hours of real time, but you could make an exception for her and just keep her in your party the entire game (which isn't a bad idea anyway as she is one of the game's stronger characters).

Veristek

In the Copper Coronet, in addition to Nalia, I've found Korgan, Hexxat, and Amnoen. I've found Viconia, Jan, and Edwin in the Government District.

My CHARNAME is neutral, so I can play with both Good and Evil parties / characters.

I'm curious, is there any way to restore romance with NPC's I've dismissed? My CHARNAME is a male, so he has Jahiera, Aerie, Viconia, and Neera as possible romance interests. I'd prefer to hold off on romances until I collect all characters, so I can try romance with each character and stick with the romance I like the best.

Jahiera was decent in Dragonspear. I gave her Ankheg plate and Dragonscale shield, and a few other items, and had her do single weapon skill. Her AC was -9 or -10. Although she ended up using the Mighty Oak +2 club the whole game to make use of her maxed club proficiency.

Maurvir

I would keep Jaheira for a number of reasons. First, when properly equipped, she turns into an epic tank at higher levels. Yes, tank. She was going toe to toe with bad guys long after I had to pull Minsc out for healing. Third a fighter+druid is a mage's worst nightmare once she can cast insect swarm. It's always satisfying to watch that cloud floating past the front line thugs into the back row. Third, she has the most intricate, and rewarding, romance quests of any of the vanilla characters. She's older, she's a bit grizzled, and she knows what she wants. It doesn't hurt that the Harper drama that comes along with her carries a nice bit of XP as well.

However, you were asking about dropping NPCs and picking them up. Almost every joinable NPC is fine with being dropped at least once. There are a couple, I believe, that will leave for good if you drop them more than that, but most are fine with being "contractors". Romance throws a kink into that, however. There are certain decisions you can make while in a romance that will cause them to disappear forever. Jaheira, in particular, does not react well to being dropped after a certain point in her romance story - though, if you get to that point, it will be obvious why. You will be warned, however.

As an aside, I opted not to take Jaheira to Spellhold in my last play through as I really wanted to try a slightly different party and take Mazzy instead. Unfortunately, at this point we were well past the point of no return, so I RP'ed leaving her in the De'Arnise keep to "rest" by closing the door to the barracks in the NE corner of the lower level.

Veristek

Do you know if Jahiera's romance is broken if I dismiss her right before or after Chapter 2 starts (exiting Irenicus dungeon, or after talking to that 20,000 gold guy in his house)? Or can I pick up her romance when I pick her up later? Same for the other romance NPC's.

As I mentioned, I'd like to try all possible romances to see where each goes, while collecting all characters to see how everyone's stories, personalities, and dynamics / interactions develop.

gorgonzola

jaheira romance begins when you buy a necklace for her from a shop in a street in the docks, the other romances are triggered by dialogues and you have less control on when to start them. as that merchant does not have any other special item to sell you can talk to him at each moment you prefer, but don't delay it much as the romance needs a long real time to progress, unless you are willing to cheat with romance timers and variables. as has been told once you romance a npc you can not dismiss him/her without breaking the romance, but other way you generally can dismiss each npc how many times you want. also on this jaheira is an exception, you can dismiss her only once, before the romance start or if you don't want to start it.
not all the npcs have personal quests even if all are associated to some quest. you can do the quests associated with nalia, mazzi and haer dalis even without recruiting them, for haer dalis actually is better to do the quest and then recruit him after the quest is done. others like cernd, anomen or viconia have quests that trigger only if you recruit them, the one of the druid is done in a short time, the one of the drow cleric needs her being in the party for a long time.
of the new ee npcs i had only neera in the party, her quest is quite long, ends only in tob, and have some good battles + a cat quest that i enjoyed much but other ones hate with all their hearts .

usually i don't care much about the romances, but i had found the one with viconia and the one with neera interesting, as well as the one with the mod npc tashia, that is my preferred mod npc. i did found the romances with aerie and jaheira less interesting (personal taste...), even if the one with the f/d is the most rewarding as she get a very useful and powerful item at the end ( and you can pickpoket twice a +2 protection ring from a very famous mage that is in disguise).

Veristek

I just found something rather strange. I have a save right after exiting Irencius dungeon and his big battle with the thieves and wizards, and another save in the Copper Coronet right after starting Chapter 2 and exiting the 20,000 gold guy's house.

In both saves, I tried dismissing Jahiera.

Save #1 (After Irenicus scene) = Jahiera says "You can reform the party as you wish" and then "Find me at Harper Stronghold in Athkala". Then she walks off.

Save #2 (Chapter 2) = Jahiera says "You wish to part ways? I thought we were closer than traveling companions" and then "Things won't be the same again. Find me at Harper's Stronghold". She walks off.

The strange thing is, I didn't have any romance dialogue or anything in the 2 minutes between Irenicus battle (first save) and starting Chapter 2 (second save).

So now I'm not sure if I can romance Jahiera if I drop her at Save #1, then wait until I finish whatever other stuff like quests or collecting all the other NPC's, then pick Jahiera up at Harper's Stronghold and proceed normally with her romance and quests from there? Or is the romance screwed and can't be done no matter what even at this point?

Insights?

Humanoid_Taifun

@gorgonzola Jaheira's romance runs by the same rules as the others. The necklace is completely optional. You can reach the end of the romance without ever buying it.
My second-hand knowledge from the old Bioware forum tells me that once you start chapter 2, her romance begins. @Veristek seems to agree with that. If you want to know for sure, you could look it up with nearinfinity of course.

jsaving

You do not want to see the "I thought we were closer" dialogue. That's your cue to reload and keep her in the party.

gorgonzola

@Humanoid_Taifun i don't use nearinfinity, but you can be right. even if i am quite sure that all the times i romanced her i bought the necklace, is possible that the other times i did not romance her cause i had other romances going on or cause i dismissed her the only allowed time, breaking the romance.
@Veristek i am quite convinced that once you dismiss jaheira and the romance is started the romance is lost forever. so maybe that dismissing her after the first save you have still the chance to romance her. in that case @Humanoid_Taifun is right and as the irenicus scene is still in chap 1 the romance at that point is not still begun. but i am not sure and it is risky.

an other trick is to go in some empty room, dismiss her and run away before she can reach you and start the dialogue. so when you come back she approach you asking if you are sure that you want to dismiss her, you tell "i have changed my mind, remain with us" and technically you have never dismissed her.
also this is risky, sometimes works but surely one time i waited too long before coming back and the trick did not work.

but as you have other npcs in your party i strongly suggest you to take jaheira with you and dismiss them, with both minsk and yoshimo i am sure you can dismiss them how many times you want and it should be true also for all the other npcs you have found. be careful that every times you take viconia it costs you some reputation.
also jaheira as multi needs all the xp she can get, while minsk, korgan, anomen and all the npcs that improve a single class are effective also if they loose some xp in the time they are not in the party.

forget the idea to have multiple romances in the same run, every romance is too long, some have to reach tob to be concluded...
the most effective way to do the thing is to romance jaheira having her always with you and take other 3 npcs that you plan to take trough the whole game leaving a free spot to do the quests of the others one by one. and to meet and recruit your last definitive companion only after that so you get him at the best possible level of xp, if i am not wrong the xp of the npcs improves every 0.5M xp charname has until he has 2M. so taking a npc when you have 1.49M xp give a less experienced toon then taking him when you have 1.51M. but once you recruit it the first time his xp is set and can improve only inside the party, every time you drop him he looses the xp the party gains while he is not in.

Veristek

In Dragonspear, I was able to explore and see all the possible romances for my CHARNAME in a few days. Neera, Corwin, Glint, Dorn, and Viconia. I saw the romance through then reloaded to Chapter 10, did lovetalks for the next romance, went through it to the end, reloaded, did the next romance, and so on.

Am I to understand that each of the 5 available romances (Jaheira, Aerie, Neera, Dorn, and Viconia) in BG 2 would start in Chapter 2 and end somewhere in ToB? That's gonna be rough compared to Dragonspear.

I have a funny picture of having all 5 romanceable party members of Jahiera, Aerie, Neera, Dorn, and Viconia all the way from Chapter 2 to ToB. Would that be a romance pentagon or hexagon? Personally, I probably wouldn't enjoy that because I'd be missing out on all the other NPC's and their interactions and play styles throughout the game.

Hmm... In that case, which romance is the best written and satisfying in your opinion? Should I go ahead with Jahiera romance, or romance the other women?

gorgonzola

i romanced only jaheira, aerie, neera and viconia + the mod npc tashia.
aerie, neera and viconia have tob content, the jaheira one takes forever in soa, real time, so you cheat with timers or have to sleep with the game open and idle if you want to have time for the others...
i like very much neera so i liked to romance her, the viconia one is the hottest one and (don't read if you don't want to be spoiled)

in tob you have the chance to make her change alignment with the right dialogue choices and obviously if you are not evil yourself

the jaheira one is the most rewarding as at the end she gets a unique valuable item.
i found the aerie's one the less interesting even if is interesting how she changes from a whiny and insicure woman to a much mature and courageous one.
but mine are only personal tastes.

in the not ee game i used a mod that allows to have multiple romances, i don't know if for ee there is something similar. anyway i did not like that run, to live only one romance at a time seems much better to me (at least in bg2, in the real life i had 2 romances going at the same time and it worked pretty well... both the sweethearts knew of each other, i don't like to cheat).
don't rush, those games are great and probably you will play them again with an other charname, so you have plenty of time to try all the romances...

Veristek

Success!

I did a bit of experimentation with Jahiera. I kicked her out after the Irencius battle and before leaving the Promenade map. She went to Harper Hold without "I thought we were closer than companions" line. I went to the 20,000 gold guy's house, started Chapter 2, then went to the Docks to go to the Harper's Hold to pick up Jahiera. She joined with no problem.

I left Docks, went back to Slums map, and Jahiera started talking "Where to Fearless Leader?". Then when I started to kick her at that point, she gave the "I thought we were closer than companions" dialogue.

So it seems like it *IS* possible to safely kick Jahiera and postpone her romance as long as we kick her right after Irencius battle / Imoen abduction and BEFORE leaving the map for the Slums. That means we can decide when we want to start Jahiera's romance at the time we want it to as long as we don't pick her up at Harper's Hold until we're ready.

Whew, problem solved. Now onto deciding NPC party composition and who to romance and such.

BelgarathMTH

@Veristek , There's an option in the Tweaks mod to allow multiple romances simultaneously. If your goal is to just see all the dialogues, without any realistic roleplaying, the mod feature might help you do that more efficiently. With the mod option turned on, the characters won't even notice or acknowledge that you are "fooling around" with multiple partners. Unmodded, as you probably know, they will notice, and at a certain point, they will force you to choose one or the other. I usually get the "choose one of us right now" dialogue with Jaheira and Aerie very early in my BG2 runs.

Veristek

As an aside, I figured out how to deal with Nalia. I had Yoshimo hide in shadows, walk past Nalia, talk to Hexxat, recruit her, then have both Yoshimo and Hexxat hide in shadows and walk past Nalia again back to my party.

Avoids Nalia chasing me altogether, saving her and her quest for when I am ready to tackle her.

gorgonzola

2 thieves fooling an other thief well done!
an other way is using the 2 doors, making her see you and follow you as you approach a door, then you exit and enter from the other one.
nalia chasing charname is always a problem if you want to delay the moment you talk to her, needs better tactics then most chap 2 battles...

DinoDin

To be honest, I think you'll have more fun just picking up the NPC's you want more or less as soon as possible and just rolling with them. With the exception of Jaheira, none of the base game NPC's have lengthy or super rewarding quests.

Some of them are interesting, but they don't give much exp or items. And many of them have pretty long timers, so it ends up being one of the most tedious things to try and completionist all the companion quests. The exception of course are the EE NPC's which all have long quests with solid loot and tons of exp. But even there, I would only do them if they're going to be the main members of your party, as the XP bloat will leave you over-leveled for the more interesting content.

Just a suggestion from someone who has done several thorough completionist runs.

myriod

IIRC there are a couple ways to deal with things like this.

1 If you're using EEkeeper or CLUA, spawn in a few flesh to stone scrolls and turn jaheira to stone in watchers keep so you can 'save' her in ToB. This will turn her hostile, but, you can use Ctrl+Q to force her to join. Her portrait will be gray 'dead', but, you can dismiss her and then 'save' her later. This works for Yoshimo as well.

2 Go to a small room you've cleared in watcher keep level 1, close the door with only jaheira (or whoever) inside, they will leave the party and attempt to talk to charname, but, cannot reach you. Main drawback here is not being able to save on that level anymore. (Stuck in dialogue mode)

3 Not recruit them, as per your example of Nalia, I believe option 5 in her first dialogue will cause her to respond, "it will be as if we never met." Well, gain access to the back rooms of copper coronet and then enter through the exit farthest from her. Lure her up on to the spectator platform watching the Pits and close the door behind you. Next time you enter CC, she will not see you or chase you. You are not stuck in dialogue mode so you can still save. Recruit her at your leisure.