Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Solo Sorcerer vs Kangaxx

2»

Comments

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,577
    Sorry, you are true, i misreaded it as ribald's one :s

    StummvonBordwehr
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 20
    Indeed, i was refering to Bernard from the Copper Coronet (that fact that i used a wrong name didn't help either).

    After my post, i tried without simulacrum and it can be done (interestingly enough, i needed exactly 20 charges to kill both forms 😀)

    StummvonBordwehrgorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,577
    also the ring of the ram can be used and it does 5d6 instead of 2d6, even if it has only 1 charge/day.

    kangaxx can be a nightmare for whole parties, if the player does not how to deal with him, when i was learning, and i did not know about the scrolls, no internet for me at that time, it was the hardest fight of the game.
    but as you learn how to deal with him is surprisingly easy, at least in the vanilla version, tactics mod or scs is way more difficult.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 476
    4ltair wrote: »
    Just did a quick test with a solo sorcerer, level 10 and it's doable.

    You will need:
    • 1 scroll of Protection from the Undead (from a temple)
    • The Victor ring with at least 10 charges (from Ribald)
    • 1 Simulacrum scroll (from Bernard's special stock)

    Before clicking on the sarcophagus, cast simulacrum, cast PftU on both from your quick slots and as soon as Kangaxx appears, start using the ring on him (have auto-pause at round end); you will need around 5 double casts on each form; you can use the Sling of Everard to further do some damage in between casts (i didn't use it); i believe you can do it only with the ring (with at least 20 charges) and a PftU scroll but i did not try that.

    My memory might be wrong here, but I thought you could not trigger Kangaxx' transformation into a demi-lich if you have Protection from Undead activated (he can't talk to you since he can't "notice" you). Maybe it is different in SCS ?

    Killing Kangaxx in vanilla is relatively easy with use of Protection from Undead or Protection from Magic scrolls. I always try to do it without PfU (PfM is less cheesy for this fight in my opinion, especially since there are only very few such scrolls available).
    In fact, with those two scrolls, any class can kill Kangaxx easily. Solo Gaxx is actually easier than with a party because of that :wink:

    As for weapons, as a sorcerer you also had access to Minute Melf's Meteors (Ribald and the scroll vendor in the adventurer's mart sell a few scrolls), I think it punches more damage per round from you and your simulacrum than the victor ring & sling of everard (plus, you can still use the victor ring each round on top of MMM's).

    gorgonzola
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 20
    @monico i don't know if it's an addition of the EE but if you initiate dialogue with him (and any other undead for that matter) while under the effect of a PftU scroll, his script will trigger normally and he will go hostile. On the same note, if you enter the Twisted Rune building while having PftU active, Shangalar will not trigger his dialogue and script and you have to kill him with ranged weapons or spells to spawn the rest of his buddies.

    MMM is not an option as a solo sorcerer or mage because of your low THAC0 and even if it hits, it does only 1 damage per hit and Kangaxx regenerates 2 HP/round. The ring of energy does on average 14 damage per round (it hits twice in one round). From my experience so far, PftU + Ring of Energy is the only reliable way for any class which does not have access to anti-undead weapons (Daystar, Azureedge, Mace of Disruption) to kill Kangaxx at low levels.

    Indeed, PftU is quite overpowered against the undead, as they do not react at all, while if you use a PfM scroll, they will buff up and use spells, making it harder to kill them.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,577
    edited October 2019
    4ltair wrote: »

    MMM is not an option as a solo sorcerer or mage because of your low THAC0 and even if it hits, it does only 1 damage per hit and Kangaxx regenerates 2 HP/round. The ring of energy does on average 14 damage per round (it hits twice in one round).
    MMM give a 5 thac0 bonus, so is on pair with the everard sling. and being a physical attack can be used in the same round in which you use the ring.
    its dmg is 1d4 +3 fire that are not effective against a demilich, but has 5 apr, and is affected by improved haste.
    so it gives on average 5 * 2.5=12.5 damage round, 25 dmg/round if improved haste is used, way more then the regeneration rate of kangaxx.
    if every meteor hit...
    by the way a lot of meteors of a tensor transformed simulacrum will hit, kangaxx has not a super AC, and even if the original sorcerer miss more the MMM, as alternative to the sling, are on top of the damage of the ring, that is granted.

    monico
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 476
    edited October 2019
    4ltair wrote: »
    @monico i don't know if it's an addition of the EE but if you initiate dialogue with him (and any other undead for that matter) while under the effect of a PftU scroll, his script will trigger normally and he will go hostile. On the same note, if you enter the Twisted Rune building while having PftU active, Shangalar will not trigger his dialogue and script and you have to kill him with ranged weapons or spells to spawn the rest of his buddies.

    MMM is not an option as a solo sorcerer or mage because of your low THAC0 and even if it hits, it does only 1 damage per hit and Kangaxx regenerates 2 HP/round. The ring of energy does on average 14 damage per round (it hits twice in one round). From my experience so far, PftU + Ring of Energy is the only reliable way for any class which does not have access to anti-undead weapons (Daystar, Azureedge, Mace of Disruption) to kill Kangaxx at low levels.

    Indeed, PftU is quite overpowered against the undead, as they do not react at all, while if you use a PfM scroll, they will buff up and use spells, making it harder to kill them.

    You can trigger the fight for his first lich form, but I think his transformation into demilich cannot be triggered if he can not spot you (on top of the damage thershold). I might be wrong there, I have not used PfU against Kangaxx in a long time (I always try for a more challenging option).

    About MMM’s, as @gorgonzola said, it fares much better than the sling, and you can still use the Victor ring on top of your Meteors each round.

    EDIT: tested.
    1. Indeed, PfU does not prevent Kangaxx from turning into a demi lich
    2. My lvl12 sorcerer with 1 scroll of Simulacrum, with MMM’s and Improved Haste killed Gaxx’s second form, without any other gear (in fact, i used an old save from a poverty run with no gear at all, just had to buy 1 scroll of Simulacrum, 2 PfU, and a few scrolls of MMM just in case).
    I did use quite a few casts of Minute Melf’s Meteor to kill the demilich, but still, quite an easy fight (lvl12 Imp. Haste lasted long enough to kill Kangaxx 2 forms).
    And with thac0 10 (17 base, -2 from Dex, -5 from MMM), I could hit him on a 6 roll (strangely enough, my simulacrum needed 11 i think, seems like it did not get -5 from MMM).

    Post edited by monico on
    gorgonzola
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 20
    @gorgonzola Kangaxx the Demilich has 90% physical resistance, so the meteors will do exactly 1 damage; he also has an AC of -2 so a level 9 sorcerer will have 10 THAC0 with MMM, which makes it a 40% chance to hit him and this puts the average DPS to 2 per round, which he will regenerate completely.

    With @monico strategy, the DPS will be around 5 to 6 per round, which means you will need 13 rounds to kill him and this means 13 casts of MMMs

    gorgonzola
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 476
    edited October 2019
    4ltair wrote: »
    @gorgonzola Kangaxx the Demilich has 90% physical resistance, so the meteors will do exactly 1 damage; he also has an AC of -2 so a level 9 sorcerer will have 10 THAC0 with MMM, which makes it a 40% chance to hit him and this puts the average DPS to 2 per round, which he will regenerate completely.

    With @monico strategy, the DPS will be around 5 to 6 per round, which means you will need 13 rounds to kill him and this means 13 casts of MMMs

    You sure about that AC? I distinctly remember making a roll of 6 or 7 and hitting his demilich form with 10 thac0.

    13 MMM’s seems about right though between me and my simulacrum (was lvl12 though, not lvl9, which means more meteors per cast, and access to improved haste as a memorized spell instead of scroll)

    Also, again, this was just to test if MMM could kill kangaxx. Obviously in a non-test run, I’d also use the Victor ring and/or ring of Ram

    gorgonzola
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 20
    When i checked him in NearInfinity, he has an AC of 0 and he has equipped the Ring of Gaxx, which further lowers it to -2.

  • _Nightfall__Nightfall_ Member Posts: 239
    monico wrote: »
    4ltair wrote: »
    Just did a quick test with a solo sorcerer, level 10 and it's doable.

    You will need:
    • 1 scroll of Protection from the Undead (from a temple)
    • The Victor ring with at least 10 charges (from Ribald)
    • 1 Simulacrum scroll (from Bernard's special stock)

    Before clicking on the sarcophagus, cast simulacrum, cast PftU on both from your quick slots and as soon as Kangaxx appears, start using the ring on him (have auto-pause at round end); you will need around 5 double casts on each form; you can use the Sling of Everard to further do some damage in between casts (i didn't use it); i believe you can do it only with the ring (with at least 20 charges) and a PftU scroll but i did not try that.

    My memory might be wrong here, but I thought you could not trigger Kangaxx' transformation into a demi-lich if you have Protection from Undead activated (he can't talk to you since he can't "notice" you). Maybe it is different in SCS ?

    Killing Kangaxx in vanilla is relatively easy with use of Protection from Undead or Protection from Magic scrolls. I always try to do it without PfU (PfM is less cheesy for this fight in my opinion, especially since there are only very few such scrolls available).
    In fact, with those two scrolls, any class can kill Kangaxx easily. Solo Gaxx is actually easier than with a party because of that :wink:

    As for weapons, as a sorcerer you also had access to Minute Melf's Meteors (Ribald and the scroll vendor in the adventurer's mart sell a few scrolls), I think it punches more damage per round from you and your simulacrum than the victor ring & sling of everard (plus, you can still use the victor ring each round on top of MMM's).


    It wasn’t possible, for the longest time if you had Pro Undead when you initiated his first form you had to wait until it wore off before his second form would materialize. Same with the story related vampire in the graveyard, they would not acknowledge you or in the case of kangaxx not transform. In EE I believe it is not the case. Not Kangaxx anyway I am pretty sure and the vampire in the graveyard you can initiate dialogue. I think. Honestly I only ever get four pro undead scrolls anymore. One for the the demilitch in Sendai’s Enclave and one for the idiot in watchers keep. One for the vamps in Firkraag’s lair and I always have one left over. I want to use it in Saradush but never do.

    monicogorgonzola
  • Mephisto66Mephisto66 Member Posts: 11
    edited March 22
    Too easy... strenght (or potion) for damage and thaco, spell immunity abjuration, u can spell immunity vs necro too, staff of magi or sling +5 without bullets, improved haste. U can tenser too but u wont be able to cast other spells if u. Spell trap of staff can also block a few imprisonment.
    Tried lower resist and spell bomb too?
    U dont need any scroll or potion actually. Magic resist or saving throw wont help imprisonment anyway.
    Not sure solo sorc but fighter mage destroy it at 1v1 with daystar in hand. Or have a temp npc cleric; pref anomen, shield of archon and sunlight... u can freedom him later so u get full xp 😂🤣

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,577
    edited March 22
    Mephisto66 wrote: »
    Tried lower resist and spell bomb too?
    this should not work as the problem with kangaxx is not his magic resistance, but his complete immunity to many spell levels being him a demilich.
    most of the spells that lower MR are at levels he is immune to as well as many damaging spells that you can use in the bomb.

    for the rest of what you tell i agree, as long as the damage done physically can overcome his regeneration rate a mage should not have any problem to make himself immune to kangaxx spells and to mlee him.
    i doubt that the 2 attacks with the +5 sling, even with str bonus added, can kill him fast enough, but surely a high enchantment staff is up to the task.
    and i would say that both the staff of ryn, available without having to defeat the twisted rune, or the staff of the ram, that is not so easy to obtain, are even better, more damage and better thac0 as the SoTM has only +1 to hit even if hit as +5.
    a solo sorcerer with a good str belt, more added damage then from the spell-potion, staff of ryn and enough levels to cast SI can defeat vanilla kangaxx very easily, and with just few levels more can also win against way nastier versions of it, mine had no problems with the tactics mod version that is way more difficult to defeat.

  • ShangerooShangeroo Member Posts: 84
    If you use PfU scroll should be easy. I remember doing this fight solo with a 13th lvl sorcerer. I had strength 19, used oil of speed, tensers, staff of Rynn and ring of ram. The key is when the demilich gets to near death he will lose morale and run away. You need to then use ring of ram on him right away otherwise he’ll regenerate too fast since.

    gorgonzola
  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 47
    edited April 10
    late to the party, but don't forget firebreath potions. Potions + ring of ram + victor's ring, add there some simulacrum and he has no chance. But simulacrum with quickslots feels like an exploit, so i did it differently.
    [SI:Abjuration absorbs imprisonment projectile even if it was initially casted on different character (which means that if you stay between kangaxx and some other npc/summon, imprisonment projectile will be absorbed by your SI:Abj anyway)] --> FALSE. Strategy below still works though.
    It means that you can cast 5 morde swords, haste them, and tank imprisonment while they are smashing him. Usuially it's kinda hard to position all 5 of them properly, but 3 is quite easy to do. And 3 is enough.

    But yeah, if you want to do it pre lvl 14-15 solo, you most likely have to use exploits. It's not a bad thing you know, gives some extra fun trying to figure out how to defeat toughest enemies as soon as possible, when you already know the game very well.

    Post edited by BrightL1ghts on
    gorgonzolaStummvonBordwehr
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,577
    imprisonment projectile will be absorbed by your SI:Abj anyway

    i have learned something new also today :)

  • BrightL1ghtsBrightL1ghts Member Posts: 47
    edited April 10
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    imprisonment projectile will be absorbed by your SI:Abj anyway

    i have learned something new also today :)

    actually not, sorry for misleading. I do remember that something blocks the projectile, but its probably protection from magic scroll :< Forget my post above, i should've double check before typing something when i didn't play for a while.
    Strategy still works like a charm, since morde swords range is high and kangaxx casts imprisonment on the closest target, you have to be as close as possible to him, while swords are just wiping him out staying safe behind you, just tested it.
    Just put 3 morde swords behing yourself, haste them and make sure you have SI:Abj up, he will die without chance. But you need lvl 14 for this, sadly.
    e3tz08svtudz.png


    Post edited by BrightL1ghts on
    gorgonzolaStummvonBordwehr
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,577
    thank you for correcting you error, it could mislead other players.

  • monstarmonstar Member Posts: 2
    edited April 29
    kangax is easy to kill for wizard (in insane difficulty)

    black blade of dissaster is your weapon.

    protection from magic weapon,spell imunity abjuration,improve haste,project image, then cast black blade to. hit.

    reload project image, cast black blade again ..

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,577
    i fail to understand this tactic.
    BBoD is a very powerful weapon that you get trough the lev 9 spell, but it must be used by the caster that cast it, does not work on its own and can not be passed to other characters.
    so i don't see the usefulness of having projected image, if the clone cast the blade he is not able to use it as PI can not perform physical attacks unless is shapeshifted into something, if the original mage cast the blade then why to cast PI and cast it again.

    and i would say that if the caster is able to use lev 9 spells anyway dragon breath is the lich killer one, then using PI to cast them can have its sense as you get more of them as each clone can cast as many of them then the original caster.

    but maybe you was talking of simulacrum that cast BBoD using a scroll, as you have to be a very high level to have a simulacrum cast lev 9 spells from the spellbook (also EE simulacrum does not work properly and the player has no control on the spells it retains). the simulacrum can do physical attacks and with the BBoD can be very effective, each simulacrum can also use the ring of the ram.

  • monstarmonstar Member Posts: 2
    my bad,
    use simulacurm spell and cast BBOD scroll.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,577
    yes, that way it works and is a very efficient tactic, as the clone uses the scroll it is not wasted and the clone level is not a problem, it is something that i like to do with my aerie whose simulacrum with a BBoD MH and FoA OH and full buff with the cleric spells is something that can make a lot of difference on the battle ground, also because with her cleric's buffs the damage of BBoD is always the maximum one, and 2d12+5 always rolled 12 is 29 dmg/hit before str bonus or other bonuses :).
    From a mage it is not so powerful, but still very useful in some situation and surely with kangaxx a great help to overcome its regeneration.

Sign In or Register to comment.