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Solo Sorcerer vs Kangaxx

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  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,911
    Sorry, you are true, i misreaded it as ribald's one :s

    StummvonBordwehr
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 20
    Indeed, i was refering to Bernard from the Copper Coronet (that fact that i used a wrong name didn't help either).

    After my post, i tried without simulacrum and it can be done (interestingly enough, i needed exactly 20 charges to kill both forms 😀)

    StummvonBordwehrgorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,911
    also the ring of the ram can be used and it does 5d6 instead of 2d6, even if it has only 1 charge/day.

    kangaxx can be a nightmare for whole parties, if the player does not how to deal with him, when i was learning, and i did not know about the scrolls, no internet for me at that time, it was the hardest fight of the game.
    but as you learn how to deal with him is surprisingly easy, at least in the vanilla version, tactics mod or scs is way more difficult.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 190
    4ltair wrote: »
    Just did a quick test with a solo sorcerer, level 10 and it's doable.

    You will need:
    • 1 scroll of Protection from the Undead (from a temple)
    • The Victor ring with at least 10 charges (from Ribald)
    • 1 Simulacrum scroll (from Bernard's special stock)

    Before clicking on the sarcophagus, cast simulacrum, cast PftU on both from your quick slots and as soon as Kangaxx appears, start using the ring on him (have auto-pause at round end); you will need around 5 double casts on each form; you can use the Sling of Everard to further do some damage in between casts (i didn't use it); i believe you can do it only with the ring (with at least 20 charges) and a PftU scroll but i did not try that.

    My memory might be wrong here, but I thought you could not trigger Kangaxx' transformation into a demi-lich if you have Protection from Undead activated (he can't talk to you since he can't "notice" you). Maybe it is different in SCS ?

    Killing Kangaxx in vanilla is relatively easy with use of Protection from Undead or Protection from Magic scrolls. I always try to do it without PfU (PfM is less cheesy for this fight in my opinion, especially since there are only very few such scrolls available).
    In fact, with those two scrolls, any class can kill Kangaxx easily. Solo Gaxx is actually easier than with a party because of that :wink:

    As for weapons, as a sorcerer you also had access to Minute Melf's Meteors (Ribald and the scroll vendor in the adventurer's mart sell a few scrolls), I think it punches more damage per round from you and your simulacrum than the victor ring & sling of everard (plus, you can still use the victor ring each round on top of MMM's).

    gorgonzola
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 20
    @monico i don't know if it's an addition of the EE but if you initiate dialogue with him (and any other undead for that matter) while under the effect of a PftU scroll, his script will trigger normally and he will go hostile. On the same note, if you enter the Twisted Rune building while having PftU active, Shangalar will not trigger his dialogue and script and you have to kill him with ranged weapons or spells to spawn the rest of his buddies.

    MMM is not an option as a solo sorcerer or mage because of your low THAC0 and even if it hits, it does only 1 damage per hit and Kangaxx regenerates 2 HP/round. The ring of energy does on average 14 damage per round (it hits twice in one round). From my experience so far, PftU + Ring of Energy is the only reliable way for any class which does not have access to anti-undead weapons (Daystar, Azureedge, Mace of Disruption) to kill Kangaxx at low levels.

    Indeed, PftU is quite overpowered against the undead, as they do not react at all, while if you use a PfM scroll, they will buff up and use spells, making it harder to kill them.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,911
    edited October 21
    4ltair wrote: »

    MMM is not an option as a solo sorcerer or mage because of your low THAC0 and even if it hits, it does only 1 damage per hit and Kangaxx regenerates 2 HP/round. The ring of energy does on average 14 damage per round (it hits twice in one round).
    MMM give a 5 thac0 bonus, so is on pair with the everard sling. and being a physical attack can be used in the same round in which you use the ring.
    its dmg is 1d4 +3 fire that are not effective against a demilich, but has 5 apr, and is affected by improved haste.
    so it gives on average 5 * 2.5=12.5 damage round, 25 dmg/round if improved haste is used, way more then the regeneration rate of kangaxx.
    if every meteor hit...
    by the way a lot of meteors of a tensor transformed simulacrum will hit, kangaxx has not a super AC, and even if the original sorcerer miss more the MMM, as alternative to the sling, are on top of the damage of the ring, that is granted.

    monico
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 190
    edited October 21
    4ltair wrote: »
    @monico i don't know if it's an addition of the EE but if you initiate dialogue with him (and any other undead for that matter) while under the effect of a PftU scroll, his script will trigger normally and he will go hostile. On the same note, if you enter the Twisted Rune building while having PftU active, Shangalar will not trigger his dialogue and script and you have to kill him with ranged weapons or spells to spawn the rest of his buddies.

    MMM is not an option as a solo sorcerer or mage because of your low THAC0 and even if it hits, it does only 1 damage per hit and Kangaxx regenerates 2 HP/round. The ring of energy does on average 14 damage per round (it hits twice in one round). From my experience so far, PftU + Ring of Energy is the only reliable way for any class which does not have access to anti-undead weapons (Daystar, Azureedge, Mace of Disruption) to kill Kangaxx at low levels.

    Indeed, PftU is quite overpowered against the undead, as they do not react at all, while if you use a PfM scroll, they will buff up and use spells, making it harder to kill them.

    You can trigger the fight for his first lich form, but I think his transformation into demilich cannot be triggered if he can not spot you (on top of the damage thershold). I might be wrong there, I have not used PfU against Kangaxx in a long time (I always try for a more challenging option).

    About MMM’s, as @gorgonzola said, it fares much better than the sling, and you can still use the Victor ring on top of your Meteors each round.

    EDIT: tested.
    1. Indeed, PfU does not prevent Kangaxx from turning into a demi lich
    2. My lvl12 sorcerer with 1 scroll of Simulacrum, with MMM’s and Improved Haste killed Gaxx’s second form, without any other gear (in fact, i used an old save from a poverty run with no gear at all, just had to buy 1 scroll of Simulacrum, 2 PfU, and a few scrolls of MMM just in case).
    I did use quite a few casts of Minute Melf’s Meteor to kill the demilich, but still, quite an easy fight (lvl12 Imp. Haste lasted long enough to kill Kangaxx 2 forms).
    And with thac0 10 (17 base, -2 from Dex, -5 from MMM), I could hit him on a 6 roll (strangely enough, my simulacrum needed 11 i think, seems like it did not get -5 from MMM).

    Post edited by monico on
    gorgonzola
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 20
    @gorgonzola Kangaxx the Demilich has 90% physical resistance, so the meteors will do exactly 1 damage; he also has an AC of -2 so a level 9 sorcerer will have 10 THAC0 with MMM, which makes it a 40% chance to hit him and this puts the average DPS to 2 per round, which he will regenerate completely.

    With @monico strategy, the DPS will be around 5 to 6 per round, which means you will need 13 rounds to kill him and this means 13 casts of MMMs

    gorgonzola
  • monicomonico Member Posts: 190
    edited October 21
    4ltair wrote: »
    @gorgonzola Kangaxx the Demilich has 90% physical resistance, so the meteors will do exactly 1 damage; he also has an AC of -2 so a level 9 sorcerer will have 10 THAC0 with MMM, which makes it a 40% chance to hit him and this puts the average DPS to 2 per round, which he will regenerate completely.

    With @monico strategy, the DPS will be around 5 to 6 per round, which means you will need 13 rounds to kill him and this means 13 casts of MMMs

    You sure about that AC? I distinctly remember making a roll of 6 or 7 and hitting his demilich form with 10 thac0.

    13 MMM’s seems about right though between me and my simulacrum (was lvl12 though, not lvl9, which means more meteors per cast, and access to improved haste as a memorized spell instead of scroll)

    Also, again, this was just to test if MMM could kill kangaxx. Obviously in a non-test run, I’d also use the Victor ring and/or ring of Ram

    gorgonzola
  • 4ltair4ltair Member Posts: 20
    When i checked him in NearInfinity, he has an AC of 0 and he has equipped the Ring of Gaxx, which further lowers it to -2.

  • _Nightfall__Nightfall_ Member Posts: 219
    monico wrote: »
    4ltair wrote: »
    Just did a quick test with a solo sorcerer, level 10 and it's doable.

    You will need:
    • 1 scroll of Protection from the Undead (from a temple)
    • The Victor ring with at least 10 charges (from Ribald)
    • 1 Simulacrum scroll (from Bernard's special stock)

    Before clicking on the sarcophagus, cast simulacrum, cast PftU on both from your quick slots and as soon as Kangaxx appears, start using the ring on him (have auto-pause at round end); you will need around 5 double casts on each form; you can use the Sling of Everard to further do some damage in between casts (i didn't use it); i believe you can do it only with the ring (with at least 20 charges) and a PftU scroll but i did not try that.

    My memory might be wrong here, but I thought you could not trigger Kangaxx' transformation into a demi-lich if you have Protection from Undead activated (he can't talk to you since he can't "notice" you). Maybe it is different in SCS ?

    Killing Kangaxx in vanilla is relatively easy with use of Protection from Undead or Protection from Magic scrolls. I always try to do it without PfU (PfM is less cheesy for this fight in my opinion, especially since there are only very few such scrolls available).
    In fact, with those two scrolls, any class can kill Kangaxx easily. Solo Gaxx is actually easier than with a party because of that :wink:

    As for weapons, as a sorcerer you also had access to Minute Melf's Meteors (Ribald and the scroll vendor in the adventurer's mart sell a few scrolls), I think it punches more damage per round from you and your simulacrum than the victor ring & sling of everard (plus, you can still use the victor ring each round on top of MMM's).


    It wasn’t possible, for the longest time if you had Pro Undead when you initiated his first form you had to wait until it wore off before his second form would materialize. Same with the story related vampire in the graveyard, they would not acknowledge you or in the case of kangaxx not transform. In EE I believe it is not the case. Not Kangaxx anyway I am pretty sure and the vampire in the graveyard you can initiate dialogue. I think. Honestly I only ever get four pro undead scrolls anymore. One for the the demilitch in Sendai’s Enclave and one for the idiot in watchers keep. One for the vamps in Firkraag’s lair and I always have one left over. I want to use it in Saradush but never do.

    monicogorgonzola
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