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Laughing my head off like a hyena

VeristekVeristek Member Posts: 114
I'm having so much laughter right now at the Cowled Wizards. I need a good laugh after a few frustrations the past couple days between a bugged quest, figuring out whole romance stuff, trying to juggle Aerie + Neera + Jaheira, etc. Here's what happens.

1) I set my CHARNAME alone in the Docks district by the Harper's Hold.

2) I set my party of Mazzy, Keldorn, Jan, and Aerie about 10 feet away, near Harper Hold door.

3) I have my CHARNAME cast a level 1 spell to piss off the Cowled Wizards.

4) They gate in, give me a warning, I ignore them, wait 1 hour game time, and cast another level 1 spell.

5) The instant I finish casting my level 1 spell, I have my CHARNAME and Aerie simulatenously start casting Horrid Wilting targeted on the area between CHARNAME and the party.

6) The Cowled Wizards gate in, tell me "Unsanctioned magic! You pay the price!" schtick.

7) The second after their dialogue ends, my two Horrid Wiltings hit at the same time.

8) Whole wizard party dies instantly.

9) I go LOL'ing like a madman, and repeat the process.

9A) Run out of Horrid Wilting? Use Fireball, Cone of Cold, Cloudkill, Death Fog, etc. at nighttime with no civvies around. Run out of these spells? Use thief traps and ranged attacks while my melee guys get right in the wizzies teleporting faces.

10) Once I run out of wizard spawns, I reload the game and repeat the process, with some more LOL's.

I hate these stuck up sons of bitches. They claim magic would destroy the city. Just look at the other towns and cities like Baldur's Gate, Bergost, Nashkel, Trademeet, Innsbruck, etc. They function just fine with mages casting spells and no Cowled Wizard "police" there. And strangely enough, they don't "police" houses, taverns, sweers, and the like in Athkatla, and they only "police" outdoors of the city.

I'm surprised they haven't been overthrown or killed off. If they fall for such ambushes repeatedly, that shows blind incompetence. And then ask random people to read Armor, Infravision, or whatever scrolls to lure even more wizzies to ambush and death. Any real policing organization would, y'know, scout the area first before walking up to apprehend the suspects. Or prepare spells *before* teleporting in. Considering that Athkatla is full of thieves who, y'know, skulk around, backstab, and do traps, and everyone knows about the Shadow Thieves being there.

ElysianEchoesronaldololien

Comments

  • VeristekVeristek Member Posts: 114
    Here's the list of scrolls I've found after killing these wizzies about 150 - 200 times.

    Level 6

    Carrion Summons
    Flesh to Stone
    Stone to Flesh
    Summon Nishruu
    Tenser's Transformation

    Level 7

    Cacofiend
    Khelben Warding Whip
    Mantle
    Mordenkainen's Sword
    Project Image
    Protection from the Elements
    Ruby Ray of Reversal
    Spell Sequencer
    Spell Turning
    Sphere of Chaos

    Level 8

    Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
    Incendiary Cloud
    Improved Mantle
    Pierce Shield
    Spell Trigger
    Summon Fiend
    Symbol: Fear

    Level 9

    Spell Trap

    Doesn't seem like the wizzies drop any other level 9 scrolls. Only Spell Trap. They rarely drop level 1 scrolls. I've killed Zallanora repeatedly, but that boss wizzie seems to use the same loot pool as all the other wizzies. The wizzies in the non-boss waves do rarely drop Spell Trap, Only difference between Zallanora and these wizzies is that Zallanora drops about 500 gold and 9 loot drops while the other wizzies drops 2 to 3 loot drops.

    gorgonzolaThacoBelllolien
  • ElysianEchoesElysianEchoes Member Posts: 231
    Do you lose rep killing them? That really is funny! What a entertaining way to grind xp and gold, too lol.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    Veristek wrote: »
    3) I have my CHARNAME cast a level 1 spell to piss off the Cowled Wizards.

    5) The instant I finish casting my level 1 spell, I have my CHARNAME and Aerie simulatenously start casting Horrid Wilting targeted on the area between CHARNAME and the party.

    8) Whole wizard party dies instantly.

    Just a couple of questions.

    Premise.

    ADHW is a lev 8 spell, so a mage need to be at lev 16 to cast a single one, more if he want to memorize more then 1. It is 2.25M xp, as aerie is a multi she must have at least 4.5M xp.

    Charname cast a lev1 spell and the istant he finish casting he begins to cast the ADHW, to do it improved alacrity is needed, so at least 3M xp.

    Afaik before the underdark there is only a legittimate way to get the ADHW scroll, and is fighting the CW and looting it. In WK, that anyway you never named, so i assume you have never been there, you can not loot it.

    1rst question: how can you have characters at a such high level in a run where you have almost constantly run a 6 people party while still in chap 2 or 3?

    2nd queston: how do you got 2 ADHW scrolls?

    3rd question: the battles with the CW are designed as very hard battles, and are hard battles for who has not still mastered the magic system, but are designed for parties with the chap2-3 xp level. Having a party that is at end soa or tob level and use an exploit, destroy them with aoe spells before they have time to put on their protections is no challenge at all.
    Also I fight them multiple times and reload to get the best possible loot, but i fight each battle at least a couple of times with tactics that involve skill and give to the CW a chance to fight back, then eventually i switch to tactics that give an automatic win, yours is only 1 of those.
    You say that you had a great fun, laughing like a hyena, how can you have fun running an over leveled party, that possibly has scrolls trough some cheat, as you have to fight the cw a lot of times to find 2 adhw scrolls, and using tactics that exploit the game mechanics to have automatic wins?

    The 3rd question is the one that really puzzles me...

    DISCLAIMER: i firmly believe in the right of a player to do whatever he likes in his own game, no judgment is involved in my questions. I only want to know if what you report is possible by altering the "legittimate" game conditions, adding xp and scrolls and if you think that to get automatic wins brings you fun.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    Do you lose rep killing them? That really is funny! What a entertaining way to grind xp and gold, too lol.

    no rep lost and, fun fact, if an amn legionary witness the battle he join and fight at your side.
    you don't grind much gold there, you can find some valuable item like laeral neklaces.
    there is a certain xp gain but is not game breaking, and is well deserved xp if the battles are fought in a fair way and not with tricks.
    the main loot are the scrolls, you can get very soon some high level ones that are impossible to get in other way at that point and/or are very rare. Running small arcane parties or soloing a mage you get such scrolls way before the game let you find them in other ways, and in a small party or in a solo a mage can reach the needed level before he find them.

    if you want optional fights that bring you gold give repeatedly the wrong answer to a certain bridge that is closed and needs the correct answers to let you pass. you will loot infinite +1 2Hswords that you can sell for gold.

  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 910
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Do you lose rep killing them? That really is funny! What a entertaining way to grind xp and gold, too lol.

    no rep lost and, fun fact, if an amn legionary witness the battle he join and fight at your side.

    Officer Dirth once saved me from some SCS Cowled Wizards in a minimal reload game. I was so happy that I gave him some money & items, and CTRL + Q'd him into the party. Sadly he was later eaten by a Marilith in the Bridge District. I forget if this meant that Nalia stayed in custody forever ;).

    gorgonzola
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 8,589
    My favorite Coweled tactic is to just throw bees at them. Wizards always lose to bees. Insect Plague is such a good spell.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member, Moderator Posts: 4,887
    edited May 1
    They make a nice starting boost for a solo arcane character. Just summon them by using invisibility on yourself and then fill the cowlies full of cloudkills from out of sight (to have a chance of killing Zallanora before he teleports away during a timestop you'll need to add disablers like web and throw in some skull traps as well).

    gorgonzola
  • VeristekVeristek Member Posts: 114
    I've found a whole bunch of level 6 and 7 scrolls from enemy drops. I found a few ADHW scrolls:

    1. One of the small crypts in the Graveyard District
    2. Graveyard dungeon with the spider nest
    3. Enemy drop from somewhere. I've fought mages and undead that dropped level 6, 7, and 8 scrolls.
    4. Cowled Wizards themselves can drop ADHW scrolls.

    I have my CHARNAME and Aerie equipped with the scrolls I've found. Just 2 scrolls is enough to insta-kill the first wizzie wave, and if that wave drops a ADHW scroll, great, I can insta-kill the 2nd wave. Afterwards, I use other AoE spells like fireball, cone of cold, cloudkill, death fog, etc. for subsquent waves. I also have Jan lay thief traps right where the wizzies gate in for added effect in combination with the weaker AoE spells.

    Keep in mind, I was doing this to let off steam, and having laughs at the Cowled Wizards incompetence. I like to curbstomp irritating "authority" figures of the nasty type (corrupt, evil, depostic, Nazis, etc. types) whenever possible, either as LOL fun or serious gameplay.

    After I had my fun with massacring them, I killed them more conventionally. I'd use Jan's traps right on their spawn points, cast AoE spells like Fireball / Cloudkill / Cone of Cold / etc. and add in Keldorn's dispel ability and mix of party's melee + ranged attacks. I save after each wave to collect the best loot. I went for as many level 8 scrolls as I could, plus level 9 Spell Trap scrolls. I can sell these excess scrolls for money, or save them for tough fights in the future.

    While doing all this, I realized something very interesting. Characters can cast spells in heavy armor if they cast from scrolls. They can't cast spells with heavy armor, but can with scrolls.

    Regarding exploits, I don't consider pre-casting or pre-trapping onto areas the Cowled Wizards gate into an exploit. For one thing, that's the purpose of an ambush. To take the enemy by surprise and pile on the damage quickly before they can react. If these wizzies walked up to my party then they would have easily seen the ambush being set up. But they don't. They just teleport in then make their speech like total idiots. What's more, these wizzies don't even pre-buff before teleporting in. Any smart wizard would pre-buff before going into battle, either by foot or by teleport. The Cowled Wizards don't, so too bad for them. I'm not gonna make it easy for them. Why should I?

    If I was a smart magic enforcement agent, I would pre-buff before teleporting, THEN teleport to a building / alleyway / clearing about 200+ feet away from the party, THEN cast a Simulacrum or Projected Image, THEN have that decoy to walk from there to the offending party to do enforcement duties. My real body would observe, then escape easily if the party is too strong, then ask for help and set up an ambush without warning / dialog the enemy party.

    The Cowled Wizards would be far more effective, scary, and intimidating if they did competent stuff like that.

    gorgonzolalolien
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    @Veristek

    you can also use wands while wearing an armor.

    keep some scrolls to have your mages learn them, late game they will be able to cast them from the spell book, and there is not an infinite number of them.

    as you know that the cw teleport near the mage that cast a spell without a licence to set an ambush has a rp sense, in other situations where the enemies spawn and don't approach it is the way of the game to simulate that you have been ambushed, to exploit your player's knowledge in those cases is different.
    but i was mainly talking of fun, not of what is legittimate for a player. i find the cw quite strong even if they don't pre buff, but without my party setting an ambush or pre trapping. and i usually fight them quite early, so my party lack of casting power. i have a lot of fun fighting them in that situation, but i would have not fun using tactics that make the battle too easy...

    thank you for the answers.

  • VeristekVeristek Member Posts: 114
    When I play games, I have fun in several different ways. Most are self-explanatory. I can have fun doing one of these at a time, or do a few or all of these at once. Or I play a segment one way, reload before the segment, and play it in a different style of fun.

    1) Enjoying the lore, background, atmosphere, and story in the game.

    2) Gameplay if it is a good game.

    3) Low level beating high level enemies via tactics and strategy. I do it for challenge, access later areas earlier than normal, get my hands on awesome loot earlier than normal, etc.

    4) Curbstimping authority figures, especially those who say "No, you can't do that", or those who decide to kill you for the smallest indiscretion. Show them who's the real badass boss. Not them. Me.

    5) Exploring and finding treasure, hidden stuff, or cool unexpected stuff.

    6) Seeing how far or high I can go, pushing limits.

    Sometimes I do curbstomps for the LOL's, then reload a save before such a battle and then do it the normal way or even handicap myself. Its like "Oh yeah, Mr. Enemy, you think you're so tough and badass? Uh huh, I can do that right back at you. You think you can stomp me? Oh yeah? Okay, how about this! (cue big curbstomp from me(" Then replay that battle normally for immersion and storyline purposes.

    #6 happens most often in simulation or strategy games. For example, trying to reach Space Age or tech's before 1000 AD in Civilization games, or getting the maximum population density while keeping people happy in Simcity kind of games. Other times it can be about trying to cram as many cities or planet colonies together to simulate a super-dense empire. Or build a giant army or space fleet, then watch it steamroll over otherwise tough enemies. Or try to beat huge empires (or kill off their whole military) with a single-city civilization or empire. Or try to build a Simcity that has no roads at all, and all transportation is by foot or subway. In RPG's, this usually overlaps with either Curbstomping or "Low Level beats high level" scenarios. Beat the end boss at normal expected levels, then beat it at level 99 to see what difference there is. Or trying to beat the end boss with party at lowest possible level.

    Anyways, I can get different kinds of enjoyment out of each game I play. In BG's case, I'm enjoying the story, while exploring everything there is to experience, and having challenges (fighting Firkraag and the Twisted Rune with a Chapter 2 party), and stomping annoying or despicable authority figures like Cowled Wizards,

    Personally, I have no qualms about stomping the Cowled Wizards. They show up to kill you for casting even the most harmless spells like Infravision, Friends, Identify, Detect Evil, etc. The Flaming Fist and Amnian soldiers don't kill you for merely carrying weapons or armor, or defending yourself from attackers.That's the difference between "I love to curbstomp nasty or idiotic authority figures" (Cowled Wizards) and "Leave authority figures alone" (Flaming Fist / Amnian guards).

    lolien
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    i suggest you to try the tactics mod, if you like to beat enemies that are at higher level then you is the right one...
    in the initial dungeon groups of mages and warriors instead of goblins and the ilich's party is super strong, with a lev 19 cleric that summon a deva.
    in the temple ruins instead of a bone golem 2 lich, that cast way better then the vanilla ones, with some helpers like greater mummies. and on top for every lich there is also a demon that you have to kill fast as he summon an other one after like 2 rounds, and the second summon a 3rd and over and over.
    tor gal has a crazy fast regeneration, a lot of spirit trolls as helpers and a very nasty weapon (that you can loot).
    for the unseeing eye instead of regular beholders and gauths also a hive mother and a couple of high level beholders.
    the mind flyers see naturally trough invisibility and if you leave some weak party member in a safe place they teleport right next to him, they can also go invisible at will.

    there are also some completely new battles, some of them quite hard, and the final soa battle is way harder then the vanilla one, but i don't spoil you about it as you don't have still reached the vanilla soa end.

    if you search for bg2 tactics mod on you tube you will get an idea.
    in this modern times few people play it and most of the players use scs, but is perfect for the kind of challenge you look, with it you don't have to search impossible missions, it throws them at you almost every quest you do :).

  • VeristekVeristek Member Posts: 114
    That definitely sounds interesting. I'll try it out for my 2nd playthrough, since I've read that applying mods in the middle of an ongoing playthrough might cause errors or bugs.

  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,282
    Do CW eventually give up or they keep coming eternally?

  • VeristekVeristek Member Posts: 114
    You fight 5 waves of "regular" wizzies, then the 6th wave has the boss wizzie Zallanora. Once you kill that wave, no more wizzie waves as far as I can tell. You get no reputation loss for killing the wizzies, and you can sell their extra level 6, 7, 8 scrolls and level 9 Spell Trap scrolls for some nice cash,

    However, you should save up enough scrolls to teach your guys these spells. Any extra scrolls after that is cash gravy. I'd suggest saving ADHW scrolls so you can use the extra scrolls to blast enemies while wearing heavy armor.

    lolien
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,448
    @Raduziel
    they give up after you fight with the party with the boss, zallanora.
    every time there are 4 mages in their party, but their casting ability increases fight after fight, the last 2 parties cast high level spells and use good protections, if you give them the time to put them on.
    as most of my runs are with tactics mod and there a component make the enemy mages cast better i am not completely sure about how strong they are in vanilla.

    @Veristek end your 1rst playthrough without mods, not only cause installing them in the middle can give problems but also because is good to have the feeling of how the vanilla game is before modding it for more challenge. also the tactics mod change more the soa enemies, and you have already fought aqainst much of them, in tob there are some changes, the fire giants become much harder, but overall it is not so changed by that mod.
    at the old times when it was the most used difficulty mod, now it is scs, that has a completely different feeling, it was used together with the ascension mod, that make the tob parts not affected by tactics more difficult.


    ThacoBellRaduziellolienbutteredsoul
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