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Is it worth it for a Kensai/Thief to wait to get high-level fighter abilities?

I know that level 13 is the highest level that gives bonuses to the number of attacks you can have and the hit-point increases stop there also but should I wait to get some of the High-Level fighter abilities before Dual-Classing to a Thief?


  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 1,082
    Generally people dual a kensai at 7, 9, or 13 depending on their level of patience with the dual-classing process. Waiting all the way to 20 (3 million XP) would mean not getting your kensai abilities back until nearly the end of the game. I'd personally say that isn't worth it, especially since at the end of the game thief HLAs are more useful than fighter HLAs. Perhaps others have a different opinion though.
  • DanacmDanacm Member Posts: 944
    Yes dual at 13 is the high end, but after 1 playtrough i never found it interesting anymore. Nowdays i like fighter/thief multi better, it has no dual waiting, strong from start, ease of use and get both hla pools which is awesome.
  • AnonymousHeroAnonymousHero Member Posts: 98
    edited May 2019
    The only reason I'd wait would be a single Hardiness (or maybe two at L21 since you get another Kensai bonus bump there), but other than that they're not worth it.

    There are a few places where Hardiness becomes quite useful (and Stoneskin from scroll is useless because No Magic), but they're few and far between. I haven't tried it, but I expect Armor (UAI) and health potions can make up the difference.

    EDIT: Oh, I should say: There may be an argument for waiting until F17 just to maximize saving throws from the Fighter class.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,299
    If you do so , remember that youll play the game as three classes : BG1 , SoD and part of BG2 as fighter, BG2 as single class thief and either late BG2 or ToB as fighter/thief.
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,684
    the answer completely depends on player's style and party composition.
    i am considering a bg2 run only as this is the bg2 sub forum, but what i tell is also somehow true for a complete run starting in candlekeep.
    a kensai that has the level to get hla has also a very relevant dmg and thac0 bonus, but until he gets uai as thief is a glass cannon, at least in the case of dualing to mage he can use the robes (arch mage or vecna) to get some AC. his final thac0 will be very good, as will be the one of a fighter + kensai bonus, while dualing earlier is sub optimal, even at 13 he has only 8 natural thac0 + 3 from the kit so 5 total, while a plain fighter or a multi FT has 0.
    in a small party that level up fast and even better if quest mods are used to get more xp he can be fully developed eariler, but he needs at minimum 6M xp, 3M to get the first fighter HLA (and is it worth to go trough the challenge of using a glass cannon for a single gww or hardness?), then 3M as thief to get uai.
    in that small party and used with a returning dagger for the initial kensai only phase and when he has completed the dual but is not still at 3M thief xp, can be an useful ranged support.
    getting only 1 fighter hla he complete the dual at 5.42M, so it is not fast.

    i find that the kai is not so powerful for a kensai or K->T, to roll 8 automatically or 1d8 so an average of 4.5 makes little difference, as late game the bulk of the damage comes from str, the weapon enchantment level and other factors like the weapon proficiency and items. kai is useful when stabbing, but stabbing is not so important and game changer in end game.
    i find much more relevant the kai of a kensage, that can roll 40 every time if shapeshifted in golem, or the same ability of a CM using RM, the same is true if BBOD is used. but there are too few scrolls to make it relevant for a K->T without under powering the party mages.

    also the party has to use a different thief until at least charname has 3M xp, then the other thief becomes redundant.

    it can be done, but i would never do it, imho the disadvantages are way more then the advantages. for me the upper limit is to dual at 13, for the 1/2 apr bonus, and even so the real advantage from the kit is not worth the problems the kit generates.
    the dual F->T is way less problematic at the beginning and still powerful in the end and the multi is the easiest way, that grants in end game proper fighter's thac0 and gets hla starting from 3M xp, giving access to both the pools, the multi can have uai, spike traps, hardness and every other possible hla way sooner then a very high level dual, and 1.25M xp before a lev 13 dual.
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