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Making a Blade - Looking for input and advise

I love the Blade kit in Baldur's Gate and the College of Swords in 5e. A combat focused Bard with two weapons is one of my favorite playstyles and I would like some input on how to make a good one in NWN.

Some of my initial observations are that Bards seem to have...
1 - ... an acceptible, but not fantastic, BAB progression that can work on its own with innate access to the Haste spell and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF).
2 - ... few worthwhile spells after lvl 3 for a more fighting heavy character and very few offensive spells in general.
3 - ... few feats, making them somewhat dependant on the human bonus feat.
4 - ,,, little reason to invest in the Bard Song beyond Bard level 16, which is perfect for adding 4 warrior levels for another attack per round.
5 - ... a very low dit die, making them somewhat dependant on the Toughness feat and high Con values.
6 - ... no Uncanny Dodge without multiclassing.
7 - ... a fantastic selection of class skills, including Discipline, Spellcraft and Tumble to improve the defenses.
8 - ... poor weapon selection. being limited to Simple weapons without using a feat, being an elf or multiclassing.
9 - ... access to the Red Dragon Disciple, Pale Master and Arcane Archer prestige classes as an arcane caster.

I am not necessarily looking for the most optiml build, just one that isn't bad and in the interest of that I do have a few more observations that deals with roleplaying:

1 - Barbarians seem to be a poor fit thematically for Blades, due to their recklessness and Rage, despite being a perfect fit gameplay wise.
2 - RDD and Pale Master get visual changes I don't want at higher levels.
3 - I would like at least 15 (30 for epic characters) levels of the character to be Bard.
4 - Longsword or bastard sword and shortsword is the ideal weapon loadout.

*Stats*
My initial thoughts on my starting stats would be this:
Str - 14/15/16
Dex - 14/15
Con - 14
Int - 10/12
Wis - 8
Cha - 14

15 Dex is needed to unlock Improved TWF in normal circumstances. 14 Cha allows me to cast level 3 spells Stilled. Less than 14 Con leaves me with dangerously low HP values. There are no uses for Wis outside of Will saves, which is a class save and can be boosted with the Bard Song. Int gives skill points, which is useful (less so for humans). And Str obviously is the primary stat for my preferred weapons.

Multiclassing options on the warrior side is obviously Fighter or Ranger. Fighters for their bonus feats and Ranger for their Dual-Wield stuff. Ranger would also allow me to stick to 14 Dex, but at the same time limit me to light armor, making a high Dex more important than in medium armor. This is, in part, solved between spells like Mage Armor and Cat's Grace, and Dex boosting items.

I'm not sure which Prestige Class would fit, nor which non-warrior classes could be options other than Rogue for their Uncanny Dodge.

If I pick a class to multiclass without Uncaanny Dodge, Blind Fight seems to works as a semi-substitute, protecting me from getting flat-footed by enemies I can't see, though still not from other effects. Other important feats seem to be Still Spell, Toughness, Knockdown, Curse Song and Weapon Focus.

My questions are then what should my statline look at at character creation and which classes should I multiclass? Should I change something drastically from what I've outlined? How would you build a Blade?

Comments

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    Hey ya

    A few points Id consider:

    1- Considering you're still a bard I would give you intelligence 14 for the precious extra skill points and allocate them in Parry (not very good against mobs but very useful when fighting one-on-one, and it fits the Blade bard concept quite well! ) , Perform , Tumble , concentration and discipline (maybe a few points in persuade and spellcraft as well).

    2- The charm and flair of the Blade would come from his feats , so I'd strongly suggest 4 fighter levels. Id suggest as a feat progression :
    Ambidexterity , 2 weapon fighting, dodge ,Mobility,Spring Attack, expertise, whirlwind attack , curse song and improved whrilwind attack.

    You should have all of those by level 12, and it would give you whole feel of a dueling, intimidating bard. Curse song is a way to simulate the intimidating moves of a Blade. For epic levels I would suggest some weapon master levels (not many, and youd just need 5 points in intimidation and a weapon focus).

    3- Chainmail of speed is the best armor for a bard, IMO . Makes good use of his dexterity , improves speed aand Armor class.

    4- You could also do like Sharwyn and get a two bladed weapon instead of two weapons , but youd need exotic weapon proficiency for that.
  • TomRenethTomReneth Member Posts: 19
    edited June 2019
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    Hey ya

    A few points Id consider:

    1- Considering you're still a bard I would give you intelligence 14 for the precious extra skill points and allocate them in Parry (not very good against mobs but very useful when fighting one-on-one, and it fits the Blade bard concept quite well! ) , Perform , Tumble , concentration and discipline (maybe a few points in persuade and spellcraft as well).

    2- The charm and flair of the Blade would come from his feats , so I'd strongly suggest 4 fighter levels. Id suggest as a feat progression :
    Ambidexterity , 2 weapon fighting, dodge ,Mobility,Spring Attack, expertise, whirlwind attack , curse song and improved whrilwind attack.

    You should have all of those by level 12, and it would give you whole feel of a dueling, intimidating bard. Curse song is a way to simulate the intimidating moves of a Blade. For epic levels I would suggest some weapon master levels (not many, and youd just need 5 points in intimidation and a weapon focus).

    3- Chainmail of speed is the best armor for a bard, IMO . Makes good use of his dexterity , improves speed aand Armor class.

    4- You could also do like Sharwyn and get a two bladed weapon instead of two weapons , but youd need exotic weapon proficiency for that.
    Heyo!

    1 - How is Parry useful for a dual wielding character? As I understand it, going into Parry mode gives up my off-hand attacks and, as you point out, it is useless against groups. Unless I've missed something, it also isn't very reliable compared to just hitting the opponent. It just seems more useful to me to get the bonuses against spells from Spellcraft over Parry.

    2 - The Fighter would definitely allow for a lot of good feats. How would you distribute the stats to afford both 15 Dex and 13 Int? Bards are pretty MAD (Multiple Ability Dependant).

    3 - Haste items are indeed powerful. I remember finding a pair of Haste Boots on a Ranger and it sure boosted that character up and above.

    4 - Not a fan of the double weapons, to be honest. If I go with exotic weapon proficiency, it'll be to get bastard swords.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    @TomReneth

    1- I have come to realize that parry and even expertise are more useful against enemies who could easily kill you if they hit you. For a bard it could mean longer survivability at lower levels, as I could confirm in the OC. It doesnt mean that youre going to use it all the time, but it increases your versatility.

    2- I would leave either strength or constitution at 12 , because they're easy to compensate with magical equipment.

  • TomRenethTomReneth Member Posts: 19
    DJKajuru wrote: »
    @TomReneth

    1- I have come to realize that parry and even expertise are more useful against enemies who could easily kill you if they hit you. For a bard it could mean longer survivability at lower levels, as I could confirm in the OC. It doesnt mean that youre going to use it all the time, but it increases your versatility.

    2- I would leave either strength or constitution at 12 , because they're easy to compensate with magical equipment.

    I suppose I'll give them a try then. Expertise I could see, but I'm probably going to have to see it to believe it with the Parry skill. But with 14 Int, a Bard won't have a problem taking that many skills.

    So far it's looking like this:
    Human Bard at lvl 1.
    Str - 14
    Dex - 15
    Con - 12
    Int - 14
    Wis - 8
    Cha - 14

    Character creation: TWF, Ambidexterity
    Lvl 2 (Fighter 1): Dodge
    Lvl 3 (Bard 2): Expertise

    From there I'm thinking going for Whirlwind Attack, stopping for Still Spell somewhere along the way. Probably at lvl 9. Not really worthwhile before getting 3rd lvl spells.
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 418
    edited June 2019
    If I were to build something like a Blade, and assuming you absolutely wanted to stick to 16 bard lvls pre-20 and 30 bard levels post 20, I'd go with a dex-based/weapon finesse, short sword wielding human bard 30, fighter 10 with 4 fighter levels taken pre-20.

    Starting stats: str-14, dex-14, con-12, int-14, wis-10, cha-14. All lvl up stat points would go to dex.

    lvl01: bard 1 - curse song and knockdown
    lvl02: fighter 1 - weapon finesse
    lvl03: fighter 2 - weapon focus (short sword), two-weapon fighting
    lvl04: fighter 3 - +1 dex
    lvl05: fighter 4 - weapon specialization (short sword)
    lvl06: bard 2 - ambidexterity
    lvl07: bard 3 -
    lvl08: bard 4 - +1 dex
    lvl09: bard 5 - extend spell
    lvl10: bard 6 -
    lvl11: bard 7 -
    lvl12: bard 8 - +1 dex, improved two-weapon fighting
    lvl13: bard 9 -
    lvl14: bard 10 -
    lvl15: bard 11 - improved critical (short sword)
    lvl16: bard 12 - +1 dex
    lvl17: bard 13 -
    lvl18: bard 14 - blind fight
    lvl19: bard 15 -
    lvl20: bard 16 - +1 dex

    At level 20 with just two normal short swords, some clothes, and the self provided buffs of haste, mage armor, cat's grace, greater magic weapon, keen edge, warcry and bard song, the build has an AC of at least 30 and a modified AB of at least mainhand: +25/+20/+15/+10 and offhand: +25/+20 and does 1d6+3 +5 physical and +5 piercing damage per hit. Saving Throws are at least Fort: 11, Reflex: 17, Will: 12 (not counting any bonuses from spellcraft)

    Skills I suggest focusing on are Discipline (max), Perform (max), Tumble (up to 40), and Use Magic Device (up to 35). There's should be points left over to pick some other skills as well. Possibly useful additional skills for combat include, Concentration, Taunt, Spellcraft and Heal.

    For gearing I suggest prioritizing items that give +dex and cloth armor (base ac:0) that gives +AC since your dex bonus will quickly outstrip any light armor you come across.

    Epic Levels:

    lvl21: fighter 5 - great dexterity I
    lvl22: fighter 6 - epic weapon focus (short sword)
    lvl23: bard 17 -
    lvl24: bard 18 - +1 dex, great dexterity II
    lvl25: bard 19 -
    lvl26: bard 20 -
    lvl27: bard 21 - lasting inspiration
    lvl28: fighter 7 - +1 dex,
    lvl29: fighter 8 - epic weapon specialization (short sword),
    lvl30: fighter 9 - great dexterity III
    lvl31: fighter 10 - armor skin
    lvl32: bard 22 - +1 dex,
    lvl33: bard 23 - great dexterity IV, great dexterity V
    lvl34: bard 24 -
    lvl35: bard 25 -
    lvl36: bard 26 - +1 dex, great dexterity VI, great dexterity VII
    lvl37: bard 27 -
    lvl38: bard 28 -
    lvl39: bard 29 - great dexterity VIII, epic prowess
    lvl40: bard 30 - +1 dex

    At level 40 with just two normal short swords, some clothes, and the self provided buffs of haste, mage armor, cat's grace, bull's strength, greater magic weapon, keen edge, warcry and bard song, the build has an AC of at least 45 and a modified AB of at least mainhand: +49/+44/+39/+34 and offhand: +49/+44 and does 1d6+9+5 physical and +5 piercing damage per hit. Saving Throws are at least Fort: 22, Reflex: 35, Will: 24 (not counting any bonuses from spellcraft)

    All in all a good fighting character. A notable weakness is a lack of Evasion and more importantly, Uncanny Dodge. Losing two fighter levels to take 2 shadow dancer levels after level 20 (at a cost of extend spell and blind fight for dodge and mobility and a loss of epic prowess from losing a fighter bonus feat - moving armor skin to lvl 39) would rectify this and also grant Hide in Plain Sight. You would have less freedom with your skill points if you decided to maximize your stealth skills though.

    While you probably wouldn't need it with this build, a small shield with a high +ac value can supplement your AC against foes with a high AB with minimal arcane spell failure risk., though you would obviously not be dual-wielding then.
    StummvonBordwehrByTheSword
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