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Enhanced Edition and Sorcerer attributes and spells

neuvoneuvo Member Posts: 4
Could anyone help and tell if EE changed sorcerer attributes anyway?

I am planning on leaving int on 16 on my sorcerer and are concerned if this will limit me from gaining high level spells

Comments

  • AionZAionZ Member Posts: 2,991
    Sorcerers have no essential stat, but they can benefit from all of them. Having 18 Wisdom is important for Wish, and 9 Intelligence to be able to use scrolls and wands.

    neuvogorgonzola
  • neuvoneuvo Member Posts: 4
    edited June 8
    My plan is to have 17,19,19,16,18,10 stats when finishing bg1ee (counting in the tomes)

    I read somewhere that EE might had changed intelligences importance on sorcerers so started to wonder if it limits their high level spell learning. Hopefully not the case


    bg2ee's manual doesnt have any mention of intelligence and spells for sorcerers atleast so I guess they dont need int in theory

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,596
    edited June 9
    neuvo wrote: »
    My plan is to have 17,19,19,16,18,10 stats when finishing bg1ee (counting in the tomes)
    wow, it is almost a 100 grand total!
    i would say that if you are not running a solo playtrough with a hard modded game it is plain overkill.

    STR can be helpful for a solo sorcerer the few times he has to go mlee against enemies that can not be magically defeated, like the dead magic zones in WK (at that point a str belt makes the natural STR obsolete...), make the dmg, but not the thac0, a little higher with a sling and let carry more weight, but a sorcerer does not really benefit of it, even less if is not soloing.

    CON is important for the HP, but for wizards there is no bonus from going over 16, unless you want to go at least at 20 to get regeneration.

    DEX is important as it affects ranged thac0 and AC, here to go for the maximum value can matter.

    about INT and WIS @AionZ has told 99% of what has to be told, at least 9 INT and 18 WIS (only if you plan to learn wish, but it can anyway be used trough a clone that can drink a potion to rise the WIS, so even with a low WIS the sacrifice is minimal in most cases). what AionZ has not told is that a high INT make the sorcerer more resistant to the INT drain from mind flyers (but PFMW and other ways are better protections, the drain happens only if the flyers can hit...).

    CHAR i useful in some dialogues to have more options, for party management and with merchants (at least until soa where you have easy access to items that bring it to 20.

    you have used as drop stat one of the few stats that can be worth to have high, and buffed other stats beyond the point where they cease to be beneficial, 16 CON and decent but not super STR and INT are more then enough.

    neuvo
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,137
    I would probably aim for something like the following:
    19, 19, 19, 9, 18, 14

    Unless you're not planning on using weapons at all, strength is helpful. In the EE slings get strength bonus, which means 19 strength is more than doubling your expected damage.

    I tend to start with 18 constitution so that there is no HP penalty from wearing the Claw of Kazgaroth.

    There's no spell benefit from higher intelligence and I wouldn't expect to be meleeing any mindflayers. The golem tome in BG2 does require 16 intelligence to use, but as a sorcerer you're likely to have plenty of summons available anyway (and you can use potions to boost intelligence if you want).

    The maximum benefit when shopping comes from 20 charisma - which you can get by using friends to top up your stat.

    gorgonzolaneuvo
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 101
    The rules on sorceror attributes: Sorcerors must start with at least 9 Int and 9 Cha, plus any racial requirements. Their casting ability is not affected by any attributes. Dragon Disciples must start with at least 10 Str, 14 Dex, and 15 Cha instead, with no minimum Int requirement.

    @Grond0 : I assume you're planning to use all the tomes on your protagonist to reach that line? If so, you need to bump that intelligence up by 1. Standard sorcerors must start with at least 9 Int - and you wouldn't want to lock yourself out of tomes and wands for the first few chapters anyway.

    Then, it's a starting roll of 91, which is really pretty high for a class that doesn't have any high stat requirements. It takes over 1000 rolls on average to get a score that high.

    My current Dragon Disciple, on a planned trilogy run in which each member of the party gets a different stat boosted with tomes, used his starting roll of 92 for a line of 10, 18, 18, 10, 18, 18. He gets the charisma tome, so he's at 19 (21 with cloak). No HP penalty from the Claw of Kazgaroth? Sure, but I'd rather give that to Rasaad.
    The 10 strength there is the minimum allowed for a DD. Since he's using darts most of the time, any more strength would just boost carry weight, and he's got a Minsc for that. 10 Int is there so he can drop it by one in Spellhold and still use scrolls and wands. 18 Con and 18 Wis aren't particularly necessary, but with a high roll, why not? That's eventual regeneration and Wish abuse there.
    Oh, and DDs are a lot easier to roll high scores for than the basic sorceror. 400 average rolls for that 92 or better on a human or half-elf.

    Some Friends scrolls were used early on, but that's not one of my level 1 picks - so 20 Cha will be reached with an 18+ base and a +2 cloak instead. You can afford to have a mage or bard memorize an instance of Friends for shopping purposes, but for a sorceror that's one of five precious picks for spells of that level. You're probably better off using a companion for that, or some of the charisma-boosting items.
    Among standard companions, who can reach 20 Cha with a casting of Friends? In BG1, the bards and Xan, plus Imoen or Safana if they dual to mage. Baeloth can cast it from a scroll, or naturally if he spends his level 7 pick on it. In BG2, Imoen, Aerie, and Haer'Dalis, plus Sarevok if he duals to mage.

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 544
    Stats barely matter for a sorcerer so there is no need to worry about having an INT of "only" 16.

    gorgonzola
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,137
    jmerry wrote: »
    The rules on sorceror attributes: Sorcerors must start with at least 9 Int and 9 Cha, plus any racial requirements. Their casting ability is not affected by any attributes. Dragon Disciples must start with at least 10 Str, 14 Dex, and 15 Cha instead, with no minimum Int requirement.

    @Grond0 : I assume you're planning to use all the tomes on your protagonist to reach that line? If so, you need to bump that intelligence up by 1. Standard sorcerors must start with at least 9 Int - and you wouldn't want to lock yourself out of tomes and wands for the first few chapters anyway.

    Then, it's a starting roll of 91, which is really pretty high for a class that doesn't have any high stat requirements. It takes over 1000 rolls on average to get a score that high.

    My current Dragon Disciple, on a planned trilogy run in which each member of the party gets a different stat boosted with tomes, used his starting roll of 92 for a line of 10, 18, 18, 10, 18, 18. He gets the charisma tome, so he's at 19 (21 with cloak). No HP penalty from the Claw of Kazgaroth? Sure, but I'd rather give that to Rasaad.
    The 10 strength there is the minimum allowed for a DD. Since he's using darts most of the time, any more strength would just boost carry weight, and he's got a Minsc for that. 10 Int is there so he can drop it by one in Spellhold and still use scrolls and wands. 18 Con and 18 Wis aren't particularly necessary, but with a high roll, why not? That's eventual regeneration and Wish abuse there.
    Oh, and DDs are a lot easier to roll high scores for than the basic sorceror. 400 average rolls for that 92 or better on a human or half-elf.

    Some Friends scrolls were used early on, but that's not one of my level 1 picks - so 20 Cha will be reached with an 18+ base and a +2 cloak instead. You can afford to have a mage or bard memorize an instance of Friends for shopping purposes, but for a sorceror that's one of five precious picks for spells of that level. You're probably better off using a companion for that, or some of the charisma-boosting items.
    Among standard companions, who can reach 20 Cha with a casting of Friends? In BG1, the bards and Xan, plus Imoen or Safana if they dual to mage. Baeloth can cast it from a scroll, or naturally if he spends his level 7 pick on it. In BG2, Imoen, Aerie, and Haer'Dalis, plus Sarevok if he duals to mage.

    Thanks for the correction on the intelligence.

    I suppose I also had in mind for my proposed stats playing solo (which I normally do). In a party it's less important to keep distance from enemies, so darts become a better option and strength less important. For a dragon disciple getting to 20 constitution is easy, so starting that high is a more obvious choice than with a standard sorcerer.

    neuvo
  • AnonymousHeroAnonymousHero Member Posts: 92
    It's also worth considering the possible bonuses/penalties of the Hell trials, the Deck of Many Things and the Machine of Lum the Mad. (Depending on how far you expect/want to go.)

    neuvo
  • neuvoneuvo Member Posts: 4
    I rolled 91 so this 17,19,19,16,18,10 were what i had in mind when coming out of bgee with the tomes counted in.

    Thanks guys the replys were helpful and much appreciated!

    gorgonzola
  • neuvoneuvo Member Posts: 4
    jsaving wrote: »
    Stats barely matter for a sorcerer so there is no need to worry about having an INT of "only" 16.

    Ah but the issue were that I was concerned if sorcerers are able to learn high level spells even with low int or if they have int requirements for learning spells (in this case when they get level and are able to pick new spells)

    for some reason people over net are saying in sorcerer guides that they need high int and this has been confusing as I havent been able to found info on if possible to learn level 8-9 spells with low int

  • Jaheiras_WitnessJaheiras_Witness Member Posts: 496
    You don't need WIS, just use potions of insight, very cheap and last 6 hours.

    Just max physical stats, mental stats can be whatever.

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,596
    neuvo wrote: »
    for some reason people over net are saying in sorcerer guides that they need high int and this has been confusing
    yep, confusing and not true.

    neuvo
  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 544
    The INT restrictions only apply to scribing spells from scrolls, which sorcerers aren't able to do. Not sure why an online guide would say they can but that certainly isn't a guide you'd want to bookmark.

    gorgonzola
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