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World of Warcraft Thread

jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
edited June 2019 in Off-Topic
I'm making this thread so the frequent discussions of this game (like the one with @BelgarathMTH in the Pathfinder thread) have a place where they don't derail the other. And it's kind of crazy that such a seminal game doesn't have one yet anyway. It's certainly an......interesting time for the game, as in August the playerbase is basically going to fracture when a segment of players take a time machine back to 2004 to play the game in it's much more pure RPG roots when Classic hits, or those who keep going with the theme park ride that can't find it's way back to the station in what has come to be known as "Retail WoW".

Comments

  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    edited June 2019
    Wow, okay, cool.

    I'd love to, sometime after I've finished playing NWN:EE with @Arvia , pay that irritating $16 subscription fee again just to document and take pictures of a roleplayed WoW run with a druid, priest, or paladin, writing reports and rp'd story along the way like BG or NWN no-reload or minimal reload runs, and to compare my run reports with others doing the same.

    The thing with WoW, is that, although such a thing is very doable, you have to do it while staying out of any and all instancing - no dungeons, no pvp, no raids. Those things lead to dependency on other players, and to a skyrocketing death counter on your character.

    Lucky for me, I often have a blast with WoW without doing any of those things. The superlative single-player oriented aspects of WoW, combined with the real-time chat you can have when you meet other players doing the same quest, or especially if you can find and join a social-chat oriented guild (I always find such guilds), are the only reason I keep coming back to it from time to time, year by year.

    WoW has a place on my cyclical games rotation, precisely because its single-player elements are so engaging for single-player games oriented players, combined with its appeal of real-time chat with other players on your server who could be doing almost anything else and have almost any other motivation and/or playstyle to what you're doing.

    One caveat: All servers are loaded with man-children and very rarely woman-children who are total jerks. Enjoying the social chat in the game requires being able to filter out and ignore the many excruciatingly horrible, childish, sexist, racist, bullying comments you will see from total jerks in trade chat in the cities.

    If you want a good single-player rp experience, stay out of dungeons, pvp, and raids. Try joining some guilds, but as soon as any of its members start trying to bully you, pressure you into "instancing" (dungeons, pvp, and raids), you "/gquit" that guild immediately, and try another. There is always another guild that will have amenable social chat, and no pressure towards any play elements, that will be more compatible with your own personality.

    Join the Moonguard server if you want to try to roleplay with other people. The other rp servers are pretty dead on Alliance side currently. I don't know how things stand on Horde rp servers - I never play Horde.

    A word about rp in WoW. The rp'ers there have been doing it for a very long time. They have some expectations. They expect any serious rp'er to be very informed about past and current WoW lore. They frown upon, and sometimes shun, any new rp'er who clearly doesn't know anything about in-game WoW lore and how to be a character who is part of that.

    I often get around some of this by playing a very old character, who I give the title of "the Confused" in his TRP3 profile. (Total Roleplay 3, a must-have add-on for WoW rp'ers that lets you create a public pool of information that other players in the game can access just by mousing over your character.)

    The reason I like to play a senile old character in rp, is that with every expansion release, WoW keeps changing history, while the old zones that you will level through are not changed with these new maximum level story changes. This can cause you to try to rp at, say, level 30 or so, as though the Cataclysm expansion from 2012 were still current events, while all the other players, most of whom play maximum level characters from the current expansion, are role-playing their characters from lore and "current events" from the most recent expansion.

    Blizzard could solve this problem among role-players by updating their old questing zones every time they release a new expansion, but of course, they don't. So, any new player leveling through old content is effectively forming their entire understanding of the WoW game world from back in time. That's why I find playing an old, senile, "confused" character to be a very good solution to this problem for a new player who wants to try to rp with old players.

    I'd love to hear from other WoW players who are also BG players in this thread.
    Post edited by BelgarathMTH on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    I mean, I have leveled dozens of characters by this point (though I swear to god half of them are Shamans or Druids). I always run the dungeons, but only in a role where I can "control" some of the situation, either as a tank or a healer (but being a healer nowadays is alot like chaperoning a class of 1st graders).

    They really CAN'T update the old zones every expansion. Doing so the first time took up a massive amount of development manpower for Cataclysm, and it showed in the lack of level 85 content at release. And while it made them EASIER to get through, they were and remain wholly inferior from an immersion perspective compared to what they replaced. Some of the zones like Hillsbrad Foothills for the Forsaken and Redridge Mountains for Humans are nothing but running jokes for 30 quests in a row. The goofiness factor of the Cata-revamp was WAY too high. Again, there was a reason the old quests in upcoming Classic sent you back and forth and across the world, which was that you were meant to EXPLORE and the journey to 60 was meant to take months and essentially WAS the game.

    Nowadays, leveling is nothing but a chore and time-sink to where the game begins. I recently started a brand new account so I didn't have access to any of the heirlooms I have had since Wrath. To me, I've seen everything in every zone a dozen times over. And the LENGTH of time it took to get to 120 without the EXP boost from the heirlooms was just absurd. I can't fathom how new players even begin to have the patience to get to max level, which is why they seem to be seriously considering LOWERING the level cap, which I predict is going to be a total disaster, even if it is necessary.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    Oh, one more caveat about Moonguard - stay away from the Goldshire Inn. If you play a human character, you will have to go in there for a few questgivers during your level progression. Just ignore it all other than your questgivers.

    The Goldshire Inn on Moonguard has become the traditional center for a subculture on Moonguard known as "ERP" - "erotic roleplay". It can be GLBTQ, straight, and/or kinky. The codeword for "kinky" on MG is "alternate lifestyles". It is not that hard to ignore that entire mess of inappropriate gaming if you know it's there, and avoid it.

    I assure anyone reading, that roleplay on Moonguard is not about that, but more about the people in Stormwind, particularly in the mage district and the cathedral district, who want to be serious (and appropriate) roleplayers.

    I bring that up just to hope that anyone who tries a new WoW character on Moonguard won't get to Goldshire Inn, take one look at what's going on in there, and immediately reject the entire game because of that.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    edited June 2019
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    I mean, I have leveled dozens of characters by this point (though I swear to god half of them are Shamans or Druids). I always run the dungeons, but only in a role where I can "control" some of the situation, either as a tank or a healer (but being a healer nowadays is alot like chaperoning a class of 1st graders).

    They really CAN'T update the old zones every expansion. Doing so the first time took up a massive amount of development manpower for Cataclysm, and it showed in the lack of level 85 content at release. And while it made them EASIER to get through, they were and remain wholly inferior from an immersion perspective compared to what they replaced. Some of the zones like Hillsbrad Foothills for the Forsaken and Redridge Mountains for Humans are nothing but running jokes for 30 quests in a row. The goofiness factor of the Cata-revamp was WAY too high. Again, there was a reason the old quests in upcoming Classic sent you back and forth and across the world, which was that you were meant to EXPLORE and the journey to 60 was meant to take months and essentially WAS the game.

    Nowadays, leveling is nothing but a chore and time-sink to where the game begins. I recently started a brand new account so I didn't have access to any of the heirlooms I have had since Wrath. To me, I've seen everything in every zone a dozen times over. And the LENGTH of time it took to get to 120 without the EXP boost from the heirlooms was just absurd. I can't fathom how new players even begin to have the patience to get to max level, which is why they seem to be seriously considering LOWERING the level cap, which I predict is going to be a total disaster, even if it is necessary.

    Well, I think I agree with most if not all of that post.

    Again, luckily for me, I play WoW with the same mindset I have when I start a new run of BG or NWN.

    WoW to me is just a really good "D&D with friends" simulator. Since my motivations from playing are so different from most, I think I have an almost unique perspective in how I enjoy it. And that's what keeps me coming back to it again and again - the things Blizz has put into it that can entice a single-player.

    You will almost never hear from someone of my perspective on the Blizz forums.

    I don't care about being max level. If I ever hit max level (which I never have) it will be a game over for me.

    I've kept coming back and playing all these many years since 2012, and paying that subscription fee on and off, but *paying* it while it was "on", because of a lot of things in the game that appeal to me that do not appeal to the vast, or at least the loud, vocal, "majority" of players on the Blizz forums.

    -I love making money through gathering by selling the mats I gather on the auction house. I find the way the in-game auction house economy works to be fascinating, and a true study in economics. I've financed at least a dozen characters to fully leveled heirlooms, "toys" like EK and Kalimdor flight maps, the level one chauffered motorcycle mount, and so many other account-wide luxuries, through my patient gathering of herbs, ores, and skins over many years. I find that very, very satisfying.

    -Loremaster. I set that coveted title and tabard transmog as a goal for myself as soon as I started playing in 2012. I *finally* got it only this year, in February 2019. I got grandfathered in, thank the Light! I had thought it an ever-receding and never-obtainable goal. But, Blizz mercifully let me have it without completing Legion or BfA content, after I finished Classic-BC-WotLK-Cata-Pandaria-WoD.

    -Pet battling and collection. That kept me coming back for a long time. Now I have a vast collection, and most of the achievements. I still don't have that darned "Kalimdor Safari" achievement because - OMG, I only need that pet that only spawns between Silithus and Ahn'Kiraj after June 20! Gaaahhh! I think I have to pay the stupid subscription fee and go back in there to FINALLY get that and the "Zookeeper" title! I worked on it for years! Goshdarnitdamitshootgotoheck*W@!@#$%^* wraasafrackapalkaadflerh! *sigh* "Stupid rabbit!"

    -I love conversing with people in real time while I play. It's like we could keep posting to each other here, while both still playing our respective characters, all in real time. I find that kind of awesome.

    -I've met and made temporary, ephemeral friendships with so very many people. Even after we have long lost touch with each other through my frequent unsubs or for other reasons, I still remember more than a dozen of these people with great fondness.

    -I've had extremely satisfying live roleplay with many, many people in there. I've made so many temporary friends doing that. It takes me back to being a teenager playing D&D with my other teenage friends.

    There are a lot more of these points I'll probably come back and post about later. :)
    Post edited by BelgarathMTH on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    My problem with just leveling is that since I have done it so many times, and the world itself has been nerfed of any challenging leveling content whatsoever, all it is to me is a treadmill. I am a fast leveler, I know exactly where everything is and the fastest way to do it, and I am nearly incapable of dying if I am actually paying attention. It becomes a podcast/Youtube/movie/music game for me (as in I play WoW and it's so utterly mindless because of muscle memory that I HAVE to be have something else occupying my brain while I level, and maybe that's WHY I do so).

    There is exactly one thing that is not soloable from level 1-60 in the game now outside of dungeons. It is a massive Yeti Lord in Hillsbrad that does massive damage and has a knock-back attack that sends you flying into the air across the zone. It is a 3-person quest, and it's rare anyone is actually in the zone even with CRZ nowadays. Except.......

    There is exactly one class and spec that CAN solo it (as far as I can tell). And I figured it out. While Shadow is sold as the "leveling" spec for Priests, the fact is that leveling as a Discipline (or Disc) Priest is practically invincibility mode. Discipline Priest are a healing spec that focuses on shields and damage done converted to healing. Power Word: Shield is basically spammable on yourself, and the Atonement passive grants healing at a % of whatever damage you do. So I could (at least in heirlooms) just face tank this Yeti Lord with my shield and throwing out Penance on cooldown and Smites. But the knock-up/knock-back attack would still kill nearly any class quickly without a healer present, except for Mages (who have Slow Fall but could never withstand the damage from the melee hits) and......Priests, who have a spell called Levitate, which also totally negates fall damage.

    Anyway, soloing this guy as a cloth class was pretty much the only interesting thing I've done while leveling in this game in years. Because until you get into dungeons and raids or certain elite areas, there simply isn't any DANGER in the game world at all. I'm not against easy games, but leveling for me in WoW is so utterly devoid of any sense of challenge that it barely feels like a "game" at all, because that would imply I am overcoming something. And that is what I want back from Classic. Those situations where if you pull two mobs at low levels you are in big trouble, and if you pull 3, you're dead. And a world where Cooking, Fishing and First Aid not only actually help, but are almost MANDATORY for survival, and where farming for cloth to make your own gear through Tailoring is mini-game in and of itself (finding a spot with appropriate level humanoids and just going to town for an hour or two).
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @jjstraka34 , hmm. Let me tell you the exact 12 things that killed me during my most recent druid run, which I have kept a written record of on a steno pad.

    1) Shadowfang Keep, in bear spec. I only got this death because I allowed myself to get talked into tanking it for an impromptu group that I met and agreed to join in chat while going to that druid teleport place for the first time. I think I had only done that as a fast travel to Kalimdor. As a minimal reload player, I obviously regretted this decision after the death, which came after this organizing player had promised me she could heal me through the SFK instance. She couldn't, but at least she rez'd me so we could finish the stupid instance.

    I *hate* SFK. All the classes I've ever played try to class-chain-quest you into it, and want you to pick up a heckuva lot of MacGuffins there, while any PuG you do it with will be doing the "go-go-go!!!" thing and not letting you look for the MacGuffins.

    2) Fizzcrank Pumping Station in Borean Tundra. I was collecting some MacGuffins for a quest at the base of the thing. Before I knew it, I was getting mobbed by more than 6-8 droids or "gnomes" who had been "freed from the Curse of Flesh".

    3) Iceshatter. I was doing quests in Dragonblight thinking I was completely safe there. Before I knew what was happening, I got obliterated by a magnataur boss who had a boss mechanic "Ice Pulse" ability that would kill any level-appropriate character unless you ran away from the boss and the boss mechanic ability before you died.

    4) I stupidly tried to go back against Iceshatter a second time. After I died again, I looked up on WoWHead about "Pulsing Shards" from this "boss". I did not try it a third time.

    5) Barron Geddon in Mount Hyjal. He has a boss mechanic based on fire that is pretty much the same as Iceshatter's ice ability. I did not remember it, so I died without realizing in time that I was in a boss mechanic (in the single player quest zone part of the game, mind you), that was going to kill me if I didn't immediately get out of it.

    6) Alyssra, the green dragon in Mount Hyjal. Again, a "boss mechanic" in the single player part of the game. I got a "boss mechanic" message that said "Alyssra is taking a deep breath - get behind cover!", but I could see no "cover" to get behind, and I had maybe two seconds before I realized what was happening, i.e. a boss mechanic. Then I died one second later. I did not attempt this fight a second time.

    7) In Gorgrond, I tried to do a quest requiring me to don a disguise of an underground tunneling bug creature. I had a sudden dc during that quest, so I don't know if that contributed to this death. But, deep in the enemy bug tunnels, I got attacked by a bug while wearing this disguise, which wasn't supposed to happen, and then swarmed by its friends, and I was helpless to fight while "wearing the disguise." I could not get out of it to give me my fighting controls, but I wasn't supposed to need to do that in the first place. I'm pretty sure this is a bugged quest. I didn't bother to try it again. No, thank you. Hard pass. I *hate* quests that make you give up all your combat abilities in favor of a "disguise" that you may or may not be able to get rid of when detected so you can fight.

    8) In the Warlords of Draennor garrison, during the huge garrison attack that is part of the garrison quest chain that is necessary to unlock flying (shipyard/Jungles of Tanaan/Tanaan Diplomat). I was at level 103, three levels above max level for this expansion, and in bear/tank spec, and I still died during this garrison attack.

    Later, I died several more times at level 105, FIVE levels above the max of 100 for this content, just trying to work on the "Treasure Hunter" achievement to unlock flight for this expansion, only because I attacked "star" champions thinking I should be able to beat them at five levels over the max level for the content. Nope.

    9) An elite demon in the Sorethar's Rise mission that you are intended to avoid, and that I accidentally couldn't avoid. The frustrating thing is that, after I eventually completed the Sorethar's Rise quest anyway after this death, I didn't get credit for the "Pacifying Draennor" achievement, or whatever that's called, because I had started the quest from a pop-up bonus objective instead of taking the quest from the mission table in the WoD garrison. GRRRRRR.

    10) A "Dark Emanation" hound-like demon I decided to fight as a step along that "Pathfinder of Draennor" achievement that would open up flight in Draennor. The thing was elite and used very strong boss adds. You'd think I would have given it up after this death. But, I decided to try again with a different spec and approach.

    11) I switched from cat spec, which I had been using and enjoying for a long time, to bear spec, to see if changing to tank spec from dps spec would make a difference. I knew this was likely to result in a planned 11th death. Yep, it did. At this point, I was getting fed up with playing WoD, even at level 105, five levels above the original max level for the content.

    12) I went to Spires of Arak to start trying to work on the treasure collecting component of Pathfinder of Draennor. I went in bear spec, thinking that surely a level 105 tank against max level 100 content would be able to search for treasures and beat "star" champions who held some of them. Nope. The very first "star" elite champion I went against for her treasure, "Talonpriest Zoka", obliterated me from a distance, when I hadn't even attacked her. I was just going around her borders trying to take out some of her heavily concentrated minions.

    This 12th death was the "straw that broke the camel's back", so to speak. I consider any of my WoW characters with any more than one death per ten levels to be a "failed character"

    Now I had 12 deaths at level 105. Yes, that's a "failed character" in my book. What a shame.

    The frustrating thing about that is that if I want to start again from level 1, there is pretty much no challenge or real danger whatsoever until at least level 60. Blizz tried to address this problem with "level scaling" in a recent change to the game, but I think they have failed with that particular band-aid.


  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    As a Bear tank you always want to keep up Iron Fur whenever possible and only use Frenzied Regeneration when below 75% health (since it heals for about 25%). Some years back you used to be able to chain pull these dungeons, but they aren't like that now. Good players can still handle about 5-7 mobs depending on what they are, but no healer should have any trouble keeping up someone who is only pulling 2 or 3 at a time. If you are having trouble pulling mobs (and by that I mean you want them in your face in front of you, even casters if possible), then the first thing one must learn is how to manipulate line of sight. But then again, that only works if you have people willing to listen to directions from the tank.

    You are correct about Iceshatter. Something went wrong with him in one of the tuning passes for damage they made for sure. However, he is not all that difficult. As soon as he starts casting that pulse you need to strafe out of it to the left or right. In Cat form you should be easily fast enough to do, and if not can always sprint as well.

    Getting to level 105 by itself is not going to allow you to stomp over Warlords of Draenor level 100 elites on it's own. The level difference doesn't kick in in terms of THAT kind of power until you are ten levels above it. The thing that is going to allow you to do so is being level 105 AND having gear from leveling in Legion content, at which time you should absolutely be able to do so. Gear is everything in terms of power in this game, your level is just fluctuating your health and mana pools, and unless you are getting gear upgrades, your core stats like Agility, Crit, and Mastery are actually going DOWN if you don't keep up.

    All in all, the boss mechanics in the single-player (questing) portion of the game are mostly very, very forgiving, but you have to know what you're in for. For instance, it isn't all that hard to beat the Elite Jinyu who spawn around Pandaria, but you have to know you need to get out of the area of effect of their raindance ability or no amount of self-healing will save you. Keep in mind as a Druid no matter what spec you are you can always shape-shift back to your normal form and heal up, at least until you run out of mana.

    In regards to Shadowfang Keep again, yes it is one of the two times you are sent on a "class" quest from 1-60 (once at 20 for that one, and once at 50 for Blackrock Depths). These are a pale imitation of what class quest are like in Classic, which actually had flavor and meaning behind them. Every one of them now is exactly the same. Go into Shadowfang Keep and get a weapon at 20, and go into Blackrock Depths at 50 to get a head piece.

    In Classic, these quests are 1000x better, harder and more meaningful. At level 15 or 20 Paladins embark on a quest given by a blacksmith outside Ironforge that sends them to both Deadmines and Shadowfang, which results in getting a weapon called Verigan's Fist, a two-handed mace that will last you at least 10 levels. Druids must EARN Bear form by defeating a very difficult Moonkin in Darkshore, and to get Aquatic form you literally need to dive into the depths of the ocean in a very exacting spot. Shamans must run halfway across the world to earn their totems (which take up inventory slots). Rogues have to do a quest to learn how to make their poisons. Warriors have a nearly legendary quest that starts at level 30 that in the end rewards a massively overpowered weapon called the Whirlwind Axe. Warlocks don't just get to summon their demons, each one must be learned and taught by a quest. Many of these require friends. But it's all far, far more meaningful that what is in the current game.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @jjstraka34 , Thanks for all the good advice. I think you're right that if I want my Pathfinder questing in Draenor to be faster and easier, I need to move on to Legion content and get the better gear from that, and I'd also get more levels because the quests will award level-appropriate xp.

    I'll probably come back to it eventually, despite my character's death counter being higher than I like to accept. I needed a break first, though.

    I didn't want to commit to paying a month's worth of game time when I was wanting to take a break from WoW anyway, so I unsubbed. It's easy enough to reactivate the sub at will, though. I just wish it wouldn't auto-renew on me, as I'd prefer to go month to month. I can do that as long as I keep an eye on the renewal date, I guess. Once I've been charged for 30 days of game time, I feel almost obligated to keep playing just that one game, to get my money's worth out of the subscription fee I paid. But I have a lot of other games besides WoW I like to play.

    The more I hear about Classic, the less I think I'll want to play it. I "worked" for years to get all my creature comforts and luxuries that my account characters enjoy. I don't want to go back to the more raw experience I hear people describe about Classic. Also, I'm a really rare player who enjoys WoW as a single-player game, like BG or NWN, and I don't want the dependency on other players that comes with Classic. I realize, though, that the player interdependency being talked about is exactly what all the people looking forward to Classic *do* want to have back.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2019
    One thing I absolutely have to mention about WoW that has NEVER faltered even for a split second in any zone is the music. From the beginning, no matter who has been the driving force behind the bulk of it in each expansion, it has been nearly peerless. What is even MORE amazing is that it is all zone-specific. Nearly each zone has a different track. And the way the music team melds together something that fits each one of them PERFECTLY is never short of breathtaking. Warlords of Draenor had some of my favorites (my favorite zone in the game is Spires of Arak, and that is indeed an amazing set of music, and Gorgrond is just so SPOT ON) but the absolute masterpiece is Talador. If you know anything about the Draenei, this song encapsulates their thousands of years of struggle as exiles and refugees. I almost tear up every time I fly into this zone:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXyH27S_y24
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    edited June 2019
    @jjstraka34 I'd give that all three of like, agree, and insightful, if I could. The superlative musical and sound environment of WoW is absolutely one of the elements of the game that keeps me coming back again and again.

    In some ways, the stunning visual, sound, and musical environments are possibly the main attraction for me.

    Then, I guess there's the fact that I'm kind of susceptible to the "hamster wheel" motivation when I can get lights to flash and bells to ring the more I run on it. The little "food pellets" we get for running on the hamster wheel, in the form of collectible pets, mounts, titles, and transmogs, kind of lock me into the whole thing as well. ;)

    BTW, it's really too bad that those who eat, breathe, and dream WoW, as I sometimes do, will be cut off from their "drug" for most of the day tomorrow while the new patch is being implemented. :(

    The fact that my last day off this week, tomorrow, Tuesday, will not be able to be spent playing my "drug of choice", if indeed I were still "addicted" to that "drug" right now, would be driving me right up to the edge! Good thing I got myself into NWN:EE last week, huh?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Well, @BelgarathMTH, while there are many thing I absolutely adore about WoW, there is something that has totally driven me away from the game. And it relates to what you like about. Blizzard is deliberately catering to a "completionist" mindset so to speak, especially since they added all the collection tabs. The problem I have with this is that they are literally impossible to complete. There is no way anyone will ever have a full transmog, mount, pet, or toy tab. Not just because it would be monumental time investment. But because so much of it has been REMOVED, either after an expansion or on another arbitrary timeline. For instance, did you know there are two legendary quest chains in Mist of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor that were integral to the conclusion of the storylines in those expansions?? You probably didn't, because they totally removed them from the game. Someone like you should be able to go back years later, easily solo the raids for the lore and transmog looks, AND be able to enjoy these epic quest chains. But you can't. In the case of Warlords, it was literally the ONLY real post-launch story content.

    You may be wondering just what the Tavern in the Mists and Khadgar's Tower in Zhangar are for. And I wouldn't blame you. Because the removal of those quest chains made those areas utterly pointless. And it was all just some arbitrary decision to make people play on THEIR time schedule. And it just couldn't take it anymore. In fact, it has so "radicalized" me in terms of games that I have actually repurchased hundreds of dollars worth of games I own on Steam so I can have them on GOG instead. I want to experience and own everything on MY timeline, and no one else. So while I have a genuine love for Azeroth, I am saddened and lament what the corporate structure at Blizzard has become, and eventually I got tired of chasing a bushel of carrots I will never actually catch.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @jjstraka34 I am certainly very sympathetic to what you're saying there.

    For me, my only metric with a game is "Am I having fun?" If the answer is no, I stop playing that game and go play something else.

    I know full well that I cannot get all the "pinball machine" lights lit up in my WoW achievements windows, since many of them are locked in the past, and many others are locked behind content like raiding or pvp that I know I won't have fun with.

    That still doesn't dissuade me. I enjoy having a new title I can put above my nameplate - sometimes "Loremaster", sometimes "the Patient", sometimes "Assistant Professor", (still working on full Professor - I may or may not ever finish it, since I can't share rare artifact finds among my characters). I switch around these titles according to whatever roleplay idea I have going for the character. I "worked" really hard on these titles. So it still gives me great satisfaction to put one of them over my head for all other players to see.

    It gives me great satisfaction to use my EK and Kalimdor maps to open up flight paths to most zones without ever having been to them before. I got that 20,000 gold that it took to buy them through gathering herbs, ores, and skins over years, and I feel like I *earned* that privilege. It's the same with my heirloom sets, and my motorcycle driver I can summon from level one on any character now.

    I didn't group up with other characters, I wasn't given any of those privileges, and I didn't grind raids or dungeons hoping for a rare drop. I *earned* those privileges through sheer determination and patience to make the money one herb, one rock, one skin at a time.

    It's the same with my flight privileges on all my characters. The fastest flight speed I earned took 4,000 gold for each of those characters. I *earned* that privilege through sheer patience, and understanding and playing the auction house economy.

    I derive *extreme* satisfaction for these kinds of accomplishments. Unless Blizz shuts down retail servers or goes out of business at some point, nobody is ever going to be able to take that satisfaction away from me.

    Sincerely,
    Loremaster Todarion Winterclaw, the Confused.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2019
    @BelgarathMTH

    So, as usual, I get sucked back into the entire Blizzard vortex by the announcement of a WoW expansion. This, time, I decided I was going to end my OCD and enjoy Blizzard games for what I can get rather than what I can't. I started an entirely new Battlenet account and repurchased everything. There are mounts, portrait frames and card backs I'll never get, and I just have to deal with it if I want to enjoy myself.

    In regards to WoW, I've gone back to my first love, the Mage. A Blood Elf (female, because they have superior animations and posture) named Venossa. I absolutely adore Eversong Woods, and the Ghostlands was as unnerving after all these years as I remembered it (along with the Draenei starting zones, they are the oldest content left in the game, from BC, untouched by the ravages of time). Slowly getting back to 120.

    Shadowlands looks VERY interesting, as it is a flat-out excursion into the afterlife of the WoW cosmology, and there are Convenants (including one I know I will join that reminds me an awful lot of Ravenloft). You may be interested to know that one of the main activities of the end-game THIS time around is an ever-changing rogue-like dungeon called the Tower of the Damned, and it will cater to not only groups, but solo players as well. Overall, a solid announcement.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @jjstraka34 , I've never stuck with WoW long enough to get to endgame. I've never even done BfA content except for the first zone or two of it, so new expansions don't mean that much to me. I'm always playing old content and way behind everybody else when I play WoW. But I'm glad you're enjoying it.

    I recently subscribed for a couple of months to try out classic. I played a paladin and got to about level 34 before I got tired of it, but it was fun for a while, to see how the game used to be. It was a totally different game and a totally different social experience back then, so I'm glad I got to play it.

    Nowadays I've been in an arpg mood, and I've been playing Grim Dawn, Torchlight 2, Titan Quest, and Sacred 2.

    It won't be long before I'll probably get the D&D itch again and do some BG or NWN. I still haven't played the two new dlc adventures Beamdog has released.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @jjstraka34 , I asked this question over on the Blizz forums and also on the Reddit, but I wanted to ask you too in case you know something about it.

    I was just playing my paladin through WoD content while gradually overleveling it bit by bit. I decided my goal with this character was to obtain Draenor Pathfinder so I could fly there. Also, to not die. I am now level 109 and have never died, which I know is not that big a deal as a solo alt leveler who stays out of dungeons, raids, and pvp.

    My question has to do with what seemed to happen extremely suddenly when I hit 109 in Draenor. When I was 100-108, I still needed to use my full rotation as a prot pally several times per encounter to survive, and there was still danger of dying if I got careless, especially in instanced story content with big story bosses. But, when I hit 109, all of a sudden, I could one-shot every trash enemy in the questing world, and they started trying to avoid me. It also appeared that their total health suddenly went down by at least 66 percent, and I think their attacks did, too.

    So, I am now working on my Draenor Pathfinder in what appears to be story mode. I am not complaining about that, since I want to work on my Pathfinders, achievements, and professions in relative peace from enemies.

    I want to also work on my Legion Pathfinder, hopefully while being level 120.

    I would also add that cooking and fishing dailies in the Old World are still giving level appropriate experience, and so is archaeology. So I can fill as many xp bubbles as I please just doing archaeology, potentially all the way to 120 within a week or two.

    I am asking for confirmation that the game does something to drastically weaken enemies once a player hits exactly 9 levels above the content cap. Has anyone else had this experience? I always had thought that playing over level cap in older content was a matter of overwhelming enemies with the math of attack and defense, but now I'm thinking that Blizz has implemented something to just tell you, "Move on, you don't belong here," or something like that. Is it another way they try to pressure you to get to their current expansion?

    At level 108 in Draenor, you still have to fight and use your rotation, but at level 109 you can just autoattack to kill anything that dares attack you, no problem?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2019
    @jjstraka34 , I asked this question over on the Blizz forums and also on the Reddit, but I wanted to ask you too in case you know something about it.

    I was just playing my paladin through WoD content while gradually overleveling it bit by bit. I decided my goal with this character was to obtain Draenor Pathfinder so I could fly there. Also, to not die. I am now level 109 and have never died, which I know is not that big a deal as a solo alt leveler who stays out of dungeons, raids, and pvp.

    My question has to do with what seemed to happen extremely suddenly when I hit 109 in Draenor. When I was 100-108, I still needed to use my full rotation as a prot pally several times per encounter to survive, and there was still danger of dying if I got careless, especially in instanced story content with big story bosses. But, when I hit 109, all of a sudden, I could one-shot every trash enemy in the questing world, and they started trying to avoid me. It also appeared that their total health suddenly went down by at least 66 percent, and I think their attacks did, too.

    So, I am now working on my Draenor Pathfinder in what appears to be story mode. I am not complaining about that, since I want to work on my Pathfinders, achievements, and professions in relative peace from enemies.

    I want to also work on my Legion Pathfinder, hopefully while being level 120.

    I would also add that cooking and fishing dailies in the Old World are still giving level appropriate experience, and so is archaeology. So I can fill as many xp bubbles as I please just doing archaeology, potentially all the way to 120 within a week or two.

    I am asking for confirmation that the game does something to drastically weaken enemies once a player hits exactly 9 levels above the content cap. Has anyone else had this experience? I always had thought that playing over level cap in older content was a matter of overwhelming enemies with the math of attack and defense, but now I'm thinking that Blizz has implemented something to just tell you, "Move on, you don't belong here," or something like that. Is it another way they try to pressure you to get to their current expansion?

    At level 108 in Draenor, you still have to fight and use your rotation, but at level 109 you can just autoattack to kill anything that dares attack you, no problem?

    Essentially, yes. Currently (and I have no idea what they will do when they reduce the level-cap to 60 later this year) once you over-level things by 10 levels, you gain what is essentially a super-power buff. This is done almost strictly so people can solo raids and dungeons more than one expansion old for transmog and old achievements. It is intentional as a kind of zerg mode for cosmetics and fun, or to see content you may not have seen if you are just a solo player when it was current. As for the mobs avoiding you, they aren't really doing that (that's not really a thing), it's just that their aggro radius will drastically reduce as you raise in level. It's not just the old open-world content you can solo. As a Prot Pally you can walk into any heroic dungeon or even raid from Warlords at 120 and decimate the place with no chance of dying except to VERY specific fights with unique mechanics. I'd encourage you to do so. There is alot of stuff to see in the dungeons and raids, and it's meant to be a tourist mode at a certain point. If you have never set foot in Ulduar, Icecrown Citadel, Bastion of Twilight, or Throne of Thunder, you absolutely should. There is amazing transmog, story, and pets inside every raid.

    Also, if you value your self-esteem, I wouldn't ask questions like that on the official forums. You are just as likely to get roasted to high-heaven for daring to admit you play in a unconventional way. If you have a question about WoW, I can probably answer it, as long as it doesn't involve Mythic Raiding or PvP (the later of which I loathe with the fire of a thousand suns).
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @jjstraka34 , Actually, I did just get two or three answers at the official forums that were matter-of-fact and thoughtful, confirming an (anecdotal at least) enemy debuff at somewhere around 10 levels over. (At least one person from the Reddit thought it was 11 levels, and another person thought 11 levels had something to do with changing the loot tables for transmogs and mounts and such.)

    That's not to say the infamous WoW forum trolls won't come in there soon and start trying to troll me. Little do they know I don't care - that's their Kryptonite, so I'm good.

    Now, I did intentionally just invite flaming on another thread with 500 replies where somebody complained about "anti-social" players like me ruining the game for them. I just effectively thumbed my nose at them, on a whim. I posted on "Todangelus" there if you're interested. ;)
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2019
    @jjstraka34 , Actually, I did just get two or three answers at the official forums that were matter-of-fact and thoughtful, confirming an (anecdotal at least) enemy debuff at somewhere around 10 levels over. (At least one person from the Reddit thought it was 11 levels, and another person thought 11 levels had something to do with changing the loot tables for transmogs and mounts and such.)

    That's not to say the infamous WoW forum trolls won't come in there soon and start trying to troll me. Little do they know I don't care - that's their Kryptonite, so I'm good.

    Now, I did intentionally just invite flaming on another thread with 500 replies where somebody complained about "anti-social" players like me ruining the game for them. I just effectively thumbed my nose at them, on a whim. I posted on "Todangelus" there if you're interested. ;)

    Since there is no option to turn off personal loot anymore, once you reach a certain threshold (which I believe is the exact same), you then get the amount of loot a group WOULD have gotten when group loot still existed. Mounts never change. Every mount that can be farmed from a dungeon or raid boss is essentially a 1% drop. That would be (off the top of my head) Mimiron's Head from Ulduar, Invincible from Icecrown Citadel, the Azure Drake from the Eye of Eternity, the White Hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace (Heroic), the Raven Lord from Sethekk Halls (Heroic) etc etc etc. There are many other from Cataclysm, Mists, Warlords, Legion but I don't have them all memorized. The raid mounts can be farmed weekly (per character) and the ones from Heroic dungeons can be done once per day (just remembered the Blue Proto-Drake from Utgarde Pinnacle). A 1% drop rate essentially means that if you run them 100 times, you have about a 60-66% chance of getting the mount to drop in those runs.
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