Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to make an order. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE, PST:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

I finished BG2 SOA for the first time, I want some opinions on party changes

EconomicsEconomics Member Posts: 12
this was my first run of SOA, it was great and definitely better than i expected it would be and going to start TOB,I realised we get a new warrior character and saw that he is grandmaster at 2handed weapon and great stats and previous party members being available so i am hesitant about who to choose for this playthrough

my party for SOA was CHARNAME Necromancer, Imoen(pure thief) , Minsc , Jahira, Vicona and Haer'dalis

Imoen was for scouting ahead,setting traps and backstabbing mages and firing from shortbow
Minsc main tank+ DD ( dual wielding FOA+mace of disruption)
CHARNAME : mainly debuffs and death magic + summoning fiends ( kinda RPing an evil OP necromancer)
Haer'dalis : dual wield shortswords , combat buffs and illusions , main DD ( buffed up with offensive spin + tenser transformation + cleric's champion strength reaching -17 thaco main hand vs irenicus)
Viconia (buffing party before battle,summoning skeletons,aerial servants, true sight and champions strength)
Jahira i am pretty bad at using her , i use her mainly for insect plague and heals


1)now would 1 arcane caster + haerdalis casting high level spells via scrolls enough in ToB since i heard that mages are very important in ToB?

2)imoen is a single class thief is she going to be underpowered? she was pretty useless vs irenicus,dragons and liches , will there be any redeeming qualities for her? or shall i replace her for jan jansen? i think jan is very funny and has arcane power ,however i like imoen as well and since she is charname's sister it would be nice if i had her along

3)Jahira , she still doesnt have level 7 priest spells and tbh so far viconia has been alot better at everything. i am aware i am not using her efficently apart from her op insect plague which helps alot vs mages
minsc and boo, he is very likeable and funny but the new warrior looks badass , i don't know which should i pick, also the idea of doing this playthrough with imoen and sarevok is kinda nice. i need to pick 2 characters from jahira,minsc and the new warrior

would a party of charname,minsc,jahira,viconia,haer'dalis and pure thief imoen do well?




JuliusBorisovgorgonzola

Comments

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 177
    edited June 26
    Yes you will do fine as you do not need to optimise everything to win. My strong advice on your first playthrough is take who you like and whose presence you enjoy as long as you have all bases covered re fighting, healing etc and you do. The weaker links in the group are probably Imoen and Viconia as single class thieves and clerics are somewhat underpowered (though thief high level ability traps are awesome). To critically review the power in your line up, you possibly lack a front line character and another mage would help. Jaheira is your star player and I would not drop her. If you want the new possible party member then you can probably drop anyone though and still have a balanced party, if you drop Imoen (undesirable for story reasons) you can dual the new person to a thief (he can also be a mage).

    gorgonzola
  • EconomicsEconomics Member Posts: 12
    ilduderino wrote: »
    Jaheira is your star player and I would not drop her.).
    i did not expect this, please elaborate why. i have no idea about jahira strength and how to properly utilize her

  • ilduderinoilduderino Member Posts: 177
    edited June 26
    She is great if fully used. She can be your main tank with the spell iron skins and heavy armour, she can heal and resurrect, she can buff and she has fighter to hit scores and multiple attacks as a fighter, also she can disrupt mages and others that are casting spells with insect plague. She gets both fighter and druid high level abilities (some great summons). Multi classes can take a while to come “online” but she really is great.

    Post edited by ilduderino on
    gorgonzolaEconomicsThacoBell
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 101
    You found a pure thief to be useless against Irenicus/dragons/liches? Try using traps.

    In both endgame Irenicus fights, you can prepare the field beforehand with traps; in my runs so far that got past SoA, I've beaten Irenicus on the Tree of Life before he could cast a single spell.

    Many dragons can be beaten with traps as well; the two SoA dragons before chapter 7 won't go hostile until you talk to them or attack directly, and that means you can lay traps under their feet.

    Liches? In the Athkatla lich arenas, you can set traps before activating the sarcophagi. It's not much use against random liches, but that's what the rest of your party is for.

    Trap power does go up dramatically with high level abilities, including that your bard can get in on the action.

    That said - yeah, Jan is generally more effective than a single-class thief can be. You won't have enough skill points to be good at everything, so I generally ignore stealth skills on him; if he really needs to backstab something, that's what invisibility spells are for.

    ThacoBell
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 215
    Economics wrote: »
    ilduderino wrote: »
    Jaheira is your star player and I would not drop her.).
    i did not expect this, please elaborate why. i have no idea about jahira strength and how to properly utilize her

    When properly equipped and buffed, Jaheira is a vastly better tank than Minsc. I had her specialize in clubs, as one of Lava's mods has some very nice clubs, and she beats the hell out of anyone who crosses her.

    That said, unless you are aiming for an evil part, Mazzy is a solid tank. Unfortunately, with your last party, there would be conflicts. If you can take her, though, she is a solid fighter. Once she achieves grandmastery in a weapon, there is little she can't hit at least a little, and most things she hits really, really hard. Grandmaster + girdle of strength (21) + Flail of Ages+4 = awesomeness.

    Economics
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,596
    edited June 26
    Jan will be able to cast up to lev 9 spells and at tob levels get fast PI, and is almost as good as a pure thief they both get HLA at 3M xp. It is possible to go with a pure thief, but jan is really tempting.
    Jaheira with Belm OH and a good MH weapon do as good as minsk, but is more tanky thanks to ironskin, and if needed can use a shield. End game her GWW with the staff of the ram are noticeable. She NEEDS a str item and her elemental prince can exist at the same moment with a deva or planetar.
    Viconia if buffed can do much better ranged damage then not buffed as she also uses her spells, but even if in mlee could be very effective is too squishy, even with the almost 60 more HP, from her buffs, she can flank, but with finesse and being very carefull to withdrown her if she begins to take damage, her role is to deal like 100 dmg round, while ranged do abouth the half both cases improved hasted, full buff and good gear, she is much more then a healer. The energy blades with the right buff roll automatcally max dmg.
    Edit. Jaheira s best spell is wonderous recall.

    ilduderinoEconomics
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 447
    edited June 26
    Personally I don't like having Jaheira dual-wield. While druids do have a few very nice HLAs to choose from, a fighter-druid plays very differently from a solo class druid and usually stack fighter HLAs.
    A fighter-druid is like a warrior with a few very nasty aces up it's sleeve. While a solo class druid has the full-time job of shutting down/killing enemies with spells while replenishing summons/aiding allies, a fighter-druid usually just pre-buffs/summons and then does a combination of meleeing things down and casting spells - except the thing is that casting certain key spells takes priority so you HAVE to stop and cast those spells from time to time. I see dual-wield as wasted on her in that respect, perhaps unless your party already has another druid like Cernd.
    So instead, I have her go the sword-and-shield route and try to stack as much defensive bonuses as she can (AC, immunities - note that many shields have these, resistances like from Armor of Faith and Hardiness, etc). Combined with Ironskins, this allows Jaheira to run into the middle of the fray and cast her most dangerous spells while happily drawing enemy fire away from allies. Then, she goes to town with fighter HLAs like GWW.
    Efficient (no significant APR loss), good party synergy, versatile (she's usually still standing around waiting for your next order even while everyone else is running around like headless chickens). Everyone wins.

    1) Yes.

    2) Kind of a bad idea to let her remain a pure thief TBH. You should at least have given her a kit.

    gorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,596
    @Nuin at high levels a FD with sword and shield has 1 apr from lev 13 and 1/2 for specialization and at those levels you probably want to use some more enchanted weapon than belm in the MH, so she is stuck with 2.5apr, DW with belm in the OH she gets 2 more apr, for a total of 4.5, 9 when improved hasted, and if critical strike is used instead of GWW those are 9 hits that connect.
    Also there are not so many GWW/day if also hardness, critical strike and the druid HLAs are chosen, while a single improved haste lasts many rounds, usually more then enough for a big battle.

    when jaheira want to use GWW shifting to somenting like impaler or ram is wise, as they have the better dmg/hit ratio, and when the best AC is needed she can equip a shield without points in the style.

    also when she cast key spells like the insect one in the middle of the battle it is wise to have her far from the mlee opponents, even with good ac and ironskin the chance she gets disrupted is too high, haste or speed boots and a proper party positioning are better then few ac points less while being constantly hit by the mlee enemies.
    once the summons are called and the insects neutralize enemy casters there is not much then bashing foe as quick as he can that a FD can do to contribute to the battle, at least in a party with a cleric like viconia that can take care of the divine casting needed as the battle goes by.

    different styles, and as long as a style works well for a player it is perfectly fine.
    but a jaheira that can DW in many situations for high damage output, can GWW with a high damaging weapon and when needed can tank with ironskin and really low ac (shield, but also divine and arcane buffs, things like defensive armony and improved invisibility) is the most effective possible build for her.
    even in TOB belm can hit a lot of enemies and for the few immune grants an additional attack whith the MH.

  • jsavingjsaving Member Posts: 544
    Jaheira is the best druid in the game. Not only is she the only one who can combine ironskins, plate and whirlwind attack, she's also gifted with a few cleric-only spells like raise dead. I always have Minsc in my party but Jaheira is vastly more useful once you get to a point in SoA where you have a few strength-boosting items.

    The only issue with her is less-than-perfect weapon options. Ideally she'd be able to use maces or flails. But as @gorgonzola says this isn't too much of a liability as she's able to switch nearly effortlessly from two-handers to sword-and-board depending on the enemies you are facing.

    gorgonzolaEconomics
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,596
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Jan will be able to cast up to lev 9 spells and at tob levels get fast PI
    when i wrote it i had no time to explain me better.
    the main weakness of a necromancer is the loss of projected image as that spell allow to cast all the spells the clone is able to cast before he expires at the cost of only a lev 7 spell.
    when the mage can cast also improved alacrity and with the gear that make casting faster a mage can unleash almost all his spellbook in a couple of rounds.

    so he can haste the party, call some summons, bring down the magic resistence of a dragon, breach him, greater malison him and probably kill him with a barrage of low level instantanyously casted spells at the cost of a single level spell, and this is only one of the many possible examples.
    good positioning and a little caution to avoid that the PI is dispelled or true sighted are needed, but jan, and only him in the party, as soon as he gets his first lev 9 spell (3 at cap level for him) will be your most powerful mage just for his ability to cast PI.
    (sorry for charname, but such is the power of the illusion magic :) )

    Being jan a MT also his simulacrum is deadly as thanks to invisibility potions he does not really use and/or a mislead can backstab like crazy, up to 8 backstabs/round if the firetooth dagger and kundane are DW and the clone is improved hasted. all the best items and potions that improve the clone thac0 can be stacked on jan for the time he cast the simulacroum spell, then as the caster is not freezed they can be given back to who normally use them. it takes some micromanagement, but when a little fiddling with inventores gives so powerful results i find a pleasure to do it...
    it is not a tactic that is needed in most situations, but can be the key for an easy victory in some situations, like in the oasis or against multiple not super strong enemies like the drows before reaching sendai or tghe human helpers of the fire giants.

    a pure or kitted thief like your imoen is perfectly fine, but if you go for power jan is the right choice, not because you need a thief or a secondary mage better then haer dalis, the reason is that jan can cover what both charname and the blade can not, he can cast high level illusion spells.

  • EconomicsEconomics Member Posts: 12
    edited June 28
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    Jan will be able to cast up to lev 9 spells and at tob levels get fast PI
    when i wrote it i had no time to explain me better.
    the main weakness of a necromancer is the loss of projected image as that spell allow to cast all the spells the clone is able to cast before he expires at the cost of only a lev 7 spell.
    when the mage can cast also improved alacrity and with the gear that make casting faster a mage can unleash almost all his spellbook in a couple of rounds.

    so he can haste the party, call some summons, bring down the magic resistence of a dragon, breach him, greater malison him and probably kill him with a barrage of low level instantanyously casted spells at the cost of a single level spell, and this is only one of the many possible examples.
    good positioning and a little caution to avoid that the PI is dispelled or true sighted are needed, but jan, and only him in the party, as soon as he gets his first lev 9 spell (3 at cap level for him) will be your most powerful mage just for his ability to cast PI.
    (sorry for charname, but such is the power of the illusion magic :) )

    i didnt know illusionists have such a good spell, jan sure looks better now . i dont regret picking necromancer though for the RP value + the ability to cast finger of death, horrid wilting and skull trap with a -2 saving throw bonus vs enemies. + necromancer spells ( death spell, finger of death and wail of the banshee) specifically coolness factor is over 9000

    the only class that would rival the necromancer for me would have been the enchanter class IF the power words and symbols were enchantment spells, no enchanter spells over level 5 sucks

    gorgonzola
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,318
    jsaving wrote: »
    Jaheira is the best druid in the game. Not only is she the only one who can combine ironskins, plate and whirlwind attack, she's also gifted with a few cleric-only spells like raise dead. I always have Minsc in my party but Jaheira is vastly more useful once you get to a point in SoA where you have a few strength-boosting items.

    The only issue with her is less-than-perfect weapon options. Ideally she'd be able to use maces or flails. But as @gorgonzola says this isn't too much of a liability as she's able to switch nearly effortlessly from two-handers to sword-and-board depending on the enemies you are facing.

    Unless you decide to play a fighter-druid yourself. I often would like to roll a fighter-druid, but I usually don't like to duplicate other characters in the game, especially not a plot-critical character like Jaheira.

    I don't know, has anyone ever tried being a fighter-druid and also keeping Jaheira through the trilogy? Are two druidzillas better than one?

Sign In or Register to comment.