I wanted to take my paladin into HotU, but decided to play SoU first, because HotU seems to contain references to that, too. I'm looking forward to seeing Aribeth's story continue there.
I realize this isn't the main topic of the thread, but if you aren't aware the original campaign and SoU/HotU are two different story threads.
In the original campaign you do all your stuff, save Neverwinter, and then your character just kind of disappears doing who knows what (but apparently disagreed with Lord Nasher over something).
SoU is a wholly new story from level 1 about a completely unrelated character. Then HotU continues the story of the SoU character -- but touches some of the original campaign characters (you meet most of the original companions in the first few minutes of HotU, for examples).
I'm mainly saying this so you're not confused about why Daelen/Linu/Sharwyn/Tomi act like they've never met you before at the very start of HotU. And anyone else you might run into during HotU will also think you're the character from SoU/HotU, not the savior of Neverwinter.
P.S. The epilogue of HotU is exactly what you seem to like where it goes into details about the fates of many characters based on your choices during the campaign.
@JFK, now I think I understand what you meant about Aribeth's pride. That's a narrow line for any paladin, to feel within your rights when to be judge, jury and executioner, and when to step back, take a breath and ask yourself if what you do is really justified.
It reminds me of Miko in OotS again, when she executed her mentor and became a Fallen Paladin. @BelgarathMTH had posted the strip in some other discussion a couple of months ago, I just can't find it right now.
And total "agree" on your last paragraph. I'd really like to know why so many people hate the OC, but that's for another thread, I think.
@Balkoth , thank you for the information. I decided to import my OC character into HotU because of better gear and level 16, but I played SoU before doing that, with another character, to know what the story is about. I knew HotU considers you Drogan's student, but I still felt very weird to have my long-time companion greet me as a stranger
I'm looking forward to some closure on the events in Neverwinter.
Late to the party, but I found this conversation very interesting, with some sharp individuals making very accurate observations. First off, I highly recommend reading this thread: http://smf.asmodei.net/index.php?topic=22243.0 regarding the lack of closure in Aribeth's story, with special attention to Poecile's excellent posts.
While the OC with its heavy climate and characters was my favorite, the main issue I find in the story of Aribeth is the widespread lack of action, which is twofold: INABILITY OF PROACTIVITY by the PC and UNPRESENCE OF PROACTIVITY by other key figures such as Gend, all of whom despite being aware of Aribeth's quick decline since leaving for Port Llast, took no immediate action to relocate her where assistance could have been more effectively provided, such as Ilmater's Monastery in Silverymoon (the story could have drawn full circle for her), away from the power of the Source Stone, in an attempt to at least loosen Morag's grip over her; and by using the spy network to acquire persons capable of providing further insight into Aribeth's state as well as actively countering Morag's influence, such as powerful priests.
Instead, no action is taken by those whose sole purpose is acting upon intel, which are key agents close to the case, including the PC—all of whom instead stand around and mumble to themselves, sending the PC on completely irrelevant tasks wandering around the region and wasting precious time, when every hour was counting and Aribeth's condition quickly worsened.
This lack of immediate action left Aribeth completely unprotected and undefended against Morag by those sworn to do so, thus sealing her fate—this is a prime example of how evil can only triumph when those with knowledge and capability refuse to act and do nothing. In my eyes, however, the most vital missing element in the mid-campaign and during the whole length of interaction with Aribeth was the PC being denied by the game the means or ability to ACT upon the intel that was revealing a bigger picture, which was Morag's existence, her agenda with Aribeth, and with the plague in the context of the city—that is, not since Port Llast.
The first act is all about intel, a shining example of proactivity and efficiency—assistance of none else but Khelben Arunsun, Lord Mage of Waterdeep is acquired, the cure is in fact developed on short notice, which in itself is a feat of significant achievement in coordinating the operation; ingredients are not only successfully procured but secured in no time, with Aribeth already steps ahead of the situation, leading an active investigation. Act 2 onwards, everything suddenly stops, apparently because Aribeth isn't there to get things done, which only serves to prove her outstanding capability as well as her dedication to the cause—the contrast between her conduct and performance before and after falling under Morag's control also proves that her actions after Port Llast cannot be held against her.
I find that in almost all fantasy settings and storylines, the fundamental importance and priority of utilizing intelligence followed by immediate action upon it, is very much overlooked, taking away credibility of the protagonist party. How can anyone hope to gain initiative in a hostile environment, let alone complete any goals this way, is beyond me, and this is evident when watching Gend and the company get hopelessly outmaneuvered by the enemy, falling several steps behind the enemy every time. Ultimately, Aribeth has found herself seeking help from people unequipped to provide it.
On top of that, Nasher's unique kind of stupidity of being willingly blind, stemming from misplaced pride, which has caused him to gravely misuse his agent network, rendering them useless and effectively paralyzing their efforts, responding to none of the information being collected and presented, sitting in his room and refusing to act upon the intel without a moment's delay.
His fate sealed by succumbing to the mob and giving display of a highly questionable moral standing, for which I, as many others, have resented and deeply mistrusted him from the day we first met—the culmination of which came at the very end, when the most unfathomable chain of events was about to ensue; Aribeth being executed for exactly the same reason Fenthick was, so that Nasher can protect his status quo at ANY and EVERY expense; followed by Nasher allowing all of his remaining assets to scatter away, and the task force in service of the cause of the city to disband and depart, as seen when the PC leaves permanently after the campaign.
Had the PC been allowed some very heavily impactful interactions in a critical time like this, a lot of things could have happened, taking the story in completely different directions—including setting things straight by means of taking over Castle Never (and therefore the city) with a swift strike. For characters like mine (a disillusioned Chaotic Good Ranger who gets things done), where Aribeth's survival and redemption was the only option from the start, execution was simply not going to take place—that much was certain.
[Digression about SoU, I feel that the same OC character could have been written into it very well, ending up in Beorunna's Well after leaving Neverwinter and wandering north-east—devoid of purpose and displaced after what went down, a smaller episode in such a remote and isolated region by the Spine of the World could help the character find their feet, even if their involvement with the Wailing Death wasn't disclosed to Drogan for a while—to later travel west through the High Forest (material for another expansion), ending up in Waterdeep at the beginning of HotU.]
As far as HotU, the PC should have been the same character from the OC, it would be great and make so much more sense to reunite in Waterdeep with the companions from the OC as the same person who traveled, fought, and bonded with them in Neverwinter—instead, the player is left feeling confused and displaced, meeting them for the first time, for the second time. It is equally ridiculous for Aribeth to be condemned to hells for her actions under the heavy and undeniable control of Morag, for which she cannot be held accountable in light of the proper context presented in extensive detail in the thread linked at the top. She was a victim of the plot, and not the villain—the tragedy of her story as it was written, was due to the fact that she was made to become one by Nasher himself, and used as device for the protection of his own agenda.
What is missing from the OC (which otherwise I find very compelling), is a proper epilogue giving Aribeth a major opportunity for atonement as a defender against Luskan forces, and emerging victorious on the challenging path of her life, after she's able to adhere to her true character of good and virtue with the help of the PC acting as the ultimate catalyst in her story. Once the PC returns to the city after cleansing the Source Stone and removing Morag's link to it, Nasher agrees to take responsibility for his ill-judged decisions in the past and atone for his own mistakes by clearing Aribeth's name and reinstating her as the Paladin of Neverwinter—head of the city's defence on the military and counterespionage level, with Gend's network placed under her jurisdiction for that purpose. With Aribeth in charge of defences and the PC continuing to work in her service as an agent, a friend, and a companion, stability can be brought back to Neverwinter, along with a promise of a brighter tomorrow, as proper diplomacy protocol is resumed and further support and resources are being secured from the Lords' Alliance to promptly stand Neverwinter back upon its feet.
Alternatively, the PC and their party could simply break Aribeth out of prison, where the PC continues down the path to deal with the Source Stone beneath the city, while the rest of the party extract Aribeth and leave the city swiftly and silently under the shroud of night, then transport her to Ilmater's Monastery for recovery and protection, away from Morag's grip. In the meantime, the PC deals with Morag and flees the city to reunite with the party; their further whereabouts unknown, as well as the fate of Neverwinter, slowly crumbling and unable to recover in a timely fashion, not without Nasher's key assets now scattered and departed—however, I feel like most alternative endings which take Aribeth away from Neverwinter deny proper closure to her story, let alone any means of redemption. I feel that Aribeth belongs in Neverwinter, not somewhere across the Realms, on the run from herself; and her fate was bound to find resolution in Neverwinter as well, regardless which direction were it to take.
Sorry for the rant, it was supposed to be just a few lines...
@Deltauren: Couldn't agree more. Fortunately there are some custom modules which provide a more appropriate conclusion for Aribeth's tale, although I remember that one of them had a pretty strong real world religion influence which I found a bit jarring and out of place in the FR setting. YMMV however.
I know I am late to the party but here is my 2 cents. Fenthick was too trusting. He gave someone he did not know a wardstone to the castle. A) I wouldn't give my best friend the wardstone. I would definitely not give it to someone I did not know. His actions were treasonous. Not just naive. One part of the storyline that was unrealistic was everyone ignores all the suspicions of the person they chose to investigate the plague. I threw up 100 red flags that dude was not who he said. Then in chapter 2, I comforted Aribeth and gave her all the support she needed and she still gives in to Morag then at the end tells my character she loves him? WTF? If she had made that realization when I did everything but kiss her ( and would have done that if there was an option) in Chapter 2 then Morag would not have been able to turn her. All Morag did was appeal to the vengeful streak she already had. Her faith was shaken so she fell back to her old habits. I think Nasher should have passed a sentence that was cominserate with the crime but a touch merciful too. But to, most likely, have executed Aribeth also compounded his error. Because HE was the cause of her crisis of faith, he should have been more merciful with her. Especially since the dude saving his city essentially begs for her life. So that is my opinion.
@Deltauren: Couldn't agree more. Fortunately there are some custom modules which provide a more appropriate conclusion for Aribeth's tale, although I remember that one of them had a pretty strong real world religion influence which I found a bit jarring and out of place in the FR setting. YHVE however.
Comments
I realize this isn't the main topic of the thread, but if you aren't aware the original campaign and SoU/HotU are two different story threads.
In the original campaign you do all your stuff, save Neverwinter, and then your character just kind of disappears doing who knows what (but apparently disagreed with Lord Nasher over something).
SoU is a wholly new story from level 1 about a completely unrelated character. Then HotU continues the story of the SoU character -- but touches some of the original campaign characters (you meet most of the original companions in the first few minutes of HotU, for examples).
I'm mainly saying this so you're not confused about why Daelen/Linu/Sharwyn/Tomi act like they've never met you before at the very start of HotU. And anyone else you might run into during HotU will also think you're the character from SoU/HotU, not the savior of Neverwinter.
P.S. The epilogue of HotU is exactly what you seem to like where it goes into details about the fates of many characters based on your choices during the campaign.
It reminds me of Miko in OotS again, when she executed her mentor and became a Fallen Paladin. @BelgarathMTH had posted the strip in some other discussion a couple of months ago, I just can't find it right now.
And total "agree" on your last paragraph. I'd really like to know why so many people hate the OC, but that's for another thread, I think.
I'm looking forward to some closure on the events in Neverwinter.
While the OC with its heavy climate and characters was my favorite, the main issue I find in the story of Aribeth is the widespread lack of action, which is twofold: INABILITY OF PROACTIVITY by the PC and UNPRESENCE OF PROACTIVITY by other key figures such as Gend, all of whom despite being aware of Aribeth's quick decline since leaving for Port Llast, took no immediate action to relocate her where assistance could have been more effectively provided, such as Ilmater's Monastery in Silverymoon (the story could have drawn full circle for her), away from the power of the Source Stone, in an attempt to at least loosen Morag's grip over her; and by using the spy network to acquire persons capable of providing further insight into Aribeth's state as well as actively countering Morag's influence, such as powerful priests.
Instead, no action is taken by those whose sole purpose is acting upon intel, which are key agents close to the case, including the PC—all of whom instead stand around and mumble to themselves, sending the PC on completely irrelevant tasks wandering around the region and wasting precious time, when every hour was counting and Aribeth's condition quickly worsened.
This lack of immediate action left Aribeth completely unprotected and undefended against Morag by those sworn to do so, thus sealing her fate—this is a prime example of how evil can only triumph when those with knowledge and capability refuse to act and do nothing. In my eyes, however, the most vital missing element in the mid-campaign and during the whole length of interaction with Aribeth was the PC being denied by the game the means or ability to ACT upon the intel that was revealing a bigger picture, which was Morag's existence, her agenda with Aribeth, and with the plague in the context of the city—that is, not since Port Llast.
The first act is all about intel, a shining example of proactivity and efficiency—assistance of none else but Khelben Arunsun, Lord Mage of Waterdeep is acquired, the cure is in fact developed on short notice, which in itself is a feat of significant achievement in coordinating the operation; ingredients are not only successfully procured but secured in no time, with Aribeth already steps ahead of the situation, leading an active investigation. Act 2 onwards, everything suddenly stops, apparently because Aribeth isn't there to get things done, which only serves to prove her outstanding capability as well as her dedication to the cause—the contrast between her conduct and performance before and after falling under Morag's control also proves that her actions after Port Llast cannot be held against her.
I find that in almost all fantasy settings and storylines, the fundamental importance and priority of utilizing intelligence followed by immediate action upon it, is very much overlooked, taking away credibility of the protagonist party. How can anyone hope to gain initiative in a hostile environment, let alone complete any goals this way, is beyond me, and this is evident when watching Gend and the company get hopelessly outmaneuvered by the enemy, falling several steps behind the enemy every time. Ultimately, Aribeth has found herself seeking help from people unequipped to provide it.
On top of that, Nasher's unique kind of stupidity of being willingly blind, stemming from misplaced pride, which has caused him to gravely misuse his agent network, rendering them useless and effectively paralyzing their efforts, responding to none of the information being collected and presented, sitting in his room and refusing to act upon the intel without a moment's delay.
His fate sealed by succumbing to the mob and giving display of a highly questionable moral standing, for which I, as many others, have resented and deeply mistrusted him from the day we first met—the culmination of which came at the very end, when the most unfathomable chain of events was about to ensue; Aribeth being executed for exactly the same reason Fenthick was, so that Nasher can protect his status quo at ANY and EVERY expense; followed by Nasher allowing all of his remaining assets to scatter away, and the task force in service of the cause of the city to disband and depart, as seen when the PC leaves permanently after the campaign.
Had the PC been allowed some very heavily impactful interactions in a critical time like this, a lot of things could have happened, taking the story in completely different directions—including setting things straight by means of taking over Castle Never (and therefore the city) with a swift strike. For characters like mine (a disillusioned Chaotic Good Ranger who gets things done), where Aribeth's survival and redemption was the only option from the start, execution was simply not going to take place—that much was certain.
[Digression about SoU, I feel that the same OC character could have been written into it very well, ending up in Beorunna's Well after leaving Neverwinter and wandering north-east—devoid of purpose and displaced after what went down, a smaller episode in such a remote and isolated region by the Spine of the World could help the character find their feet, even if their involvement with the Wailing Death wasn't disclosed to Drogan for a while—to later travel west through the High Forest (material for another expansion), ending up in Waterdeep at the beginning of HotU.]
As far as HotU, the PC should have been the same character from the OC, it would be great and make so much more sense to reunite in Waterdeep with the companions from the OC as the same person who traveled, fought, and bonded with them in Neverwinter—instead, the player is left feeling confused and displaced, meeting them for the first time, for the second time. It is equally ridiculous for Aribeth to be condemned to hells for her actions under the heavy and undeniable control of Morag, for which she cannot be held accountable in light of the proper context presented in extensive detail in the thread linked at the top. She was a victim of the plot, and not the villain—the tragedy of her story as it was written, was due to the fact that she was made to become one by Nasher himself, and used as device for the protection of his own agenda.
What is missing from the OC (which otherwise I find very compelling), is a proper epilogue giving Aribeth a major opportunity for atonement as a defender against Luskan forces, and emerging victorious on the challenging path of her life, after she's able to adhere to her true character of good and virtue with the help of the PC acting as the ultimate catalyst in her story. Once the PC returns to the city after cleansing the Source Stone and removing Morag's link to it, Nasher agrees to take responsibility for his ill-judged decisions in the past and atone for his own mistakes by clearing Aribeth's name and reinstating her as the Paladin of Neverwinter—head of the city's defence on the military and counterespionage level, with Gend's network placed under her jurisdiction for that purpose. With Aribeth in charge of defences and the PC continuing to work in her service as an agent, a friend, and a companion, stability can be brought back to Neverwinter, along with a promise of a brighter tomorrow, as proper diplomacy protocol is resumed and further support and resources are being secured from the Lords' Alliance to promptly stand Neverwinter back upon its feet.
Alternatively, the PC and their party could simply break Aribeth out of prison, where the PC continues down the path to deal with the Source Stone beneath the city, while the rest of the party extract Aribeth and leave the city swiftly and silently under the shroud of night, then transport her to Ilmater's Monastery for recovery and protection, away from Morag's grip. In the meantime, the PC deals with Morag and flees the city to reunite with the party; their further whereabouts unknown, as well as the fate of Neverwinter, slowly crumbling and unable to recover in a timely fashion, not without Nasher's key assets now scattered and departed—however, I feel like most alternative endings which take Aribeth away from Neverwinter deny proper closure to her story, let alone any means of redemption. I feel that Aribeth belongs in Neverwinter, not somewhere across the Realms, on the run from herself; and her fate was bound to find resolution in Neverwinter as well, regardless which direction were it to take.
Sorry for the rant, it was supposed to be just a few lines...
Fixed that for you